Feeling lost and lonely (ex had an affair, left us)

[Dee34]

Hi All,

This is my first post on these boards, though I have posted my story elsewhere......I just cant seem to stop thinking and mulling over things and searching for answers :(

Bit of a long story, but to start from the beginning, on Tuesday 28th Dec my ex announced that he was not in love with me anymore (usual cliches about being best friends, love you but etc). This of course sent me into a tailspin as I had just endured an awful xmas at his parents in Scotland that he insisted we go to (dont get on with his folks as they have never helped us out with DS and ex always seemed to avoid confrontation and would never raise any issues directly with them which made for an increasingly tense atmosphere). For background, back in November when I knew I would not be able to hack another xmas there and so I suggested we stay here and have a little family xmas, he told me that I was playing with people emotions by changing my mind and that I could stay here at home if I wanted but he and DS (2.5 years old) were going to Scotland regardless!! I guess I should have sussed that something was a bit iffy but I just brushed it off at the time (by Nov, affair had been going on for a month and actually between Oct - start of affair - and the bombshell in Dec, there was a difference in ex's attitude which I only really pin-pointed in the last few weeks). Anyway, we had a terrible night on the 28th - lots of crying, very emotional etc. I asked him if he was seeing someone else and he said no. I asked him to swear on DS life (childish I know, but said this in the heat of the moment) to which he replied no, he won't swear on his life as he doesn't do that sort of stuff but he held his hands up and promised he was telling the truth. I of course believed him as for me this was all out of the blue..On the Weds, I was quite teary and by lunchtime ex was saying that he was confused, needed some space etc. I said how about he stay in a hotel nearby and come round every day to see DS, take him out etc. I even phoned up several hotels for him to check rates and availability! This was during DS nap and by the time I had gone upstairs to get him, ex had done a spreadsheet and had decided he wanted to go to San Francisco instead. Some fluff about always liking San Fran from work trips (he has been there several times in the past year for genuine work reasons). Again, naïve fool that I was I agreed to him going. We drew up a list of issues that we would both think and work through (usual - lack of sex, though we were trying for baby number 2, arguing, his parents etc) and agreed not to tell any friends or family about what was happening until we knew what was happening ourselves so no one could 'influence' us. So ex went to San Fran and DS and I stayed here (everyone assumed he was here with us during whole period). Anyway, as soon as he was in San Fran his tone and attititude completely changed and he became very distant (he was relaxing and not looking at the issues or given them any thought etc). I finally 'broke' on NYE and asked him what was going on etc and that's when he said he had met someone but that nothing had happened between them, which was actually a lie.

To cut a long story short, he came back on Weds 5th Jan, determined not to work things out. Over the weeks I have learnt that other woman lives and works in San Fran, they met on a work trip in mid Oct last year (in a bar - only kissed - met on the second to last day before he headed back to the UK), had DAILY contact from the time ex returned home, started sleeping together during his next work trip out there in early Dec (a 5 night work trip) and that he was with her all along when he abandoned us over NYE to go to San Fran - he was having a lovely holiday, planning his life with her, whilst I was here like a muppet, trying to get an appointment with a sex therapist (as I obviously had 'issues'!). She is 30 (7 years younger than us) and had moved to San Fran from Nashville in June last year, so seems to me like there were a couple of lonely fools that met over some cocktails? Ex keeps banging on about how she is leaving her life over there (not quite sure what she is giving up bar a job and accommodation compared to what he is gambling with) to be with him, how he loves her so much, never felt like this before about anyone including me - starting to make me a bit sick if I'm honest. If you added up all the days they had actually been together from mid Oct to just before that post xmas trip, it amounts to around 6-7 days actually physically together and they weren't even together 24/7 as he was actually working on these two work trips (have confirmed with a colleague). So it was just hooking up at night and having lots of fresh and exciting nookie? Rest has been built around a deep emotional attachement from their daily calls/text/emails/webcams etc (probaby worse than having random one night stands I think). I think that even now tally of days is around 16 or so when you add on the NYE trip. But that is enough for her to give up her life and job and move here to be with him and he reckons she will be here in 3 months time (until then they will be racking up airmiles). I just dont understand it at all......I guess they are soulmates or star-crossed lovers that were destined to meet?! Everyone keeps telling me that he will one day wake up and see what he has done or that they will break up as soon as she gets here, but the flipside is that they may be together for a long while and that is something that I am now trying to reconcile with - esp as she will effectively be playing stepmum to DS even though ex doesn't really know anything about her bar what she has told him and shown him during their limited time together (of course there is the very real possibility that he is even lying about dates and that this all started way before Oct. I don't know and to be honest, don't care now as all it would prove is that he is more selfish and a bigger cheat and liar than first thought)....

Throughout all of this, ex has been going on about he need to be happy and how he has acted out of self preservation. And he has variously been unhappy for the last few months, 6 months, 9 months, 15 months, 18 months depending on what mood you catch him in when you speak to him.....unhappy for so long that I didn't notice it and yet only gets the balls to leave once he meets someone else? I can accept that we didn't have a 100% perfect relationship, but we had been together for 11 years and of course share DS so am shocked and hurt that it ended in this way. For his part, ex varies between assuming no guilt and saying that the affair was symptomatic of our relationship to wanting to do 2010 over again and make different choices and regretting going to the US over NYE and for making us go to Scotland over Xmas (apparently, as I made the atmosphere so tense for everyone, this was the last push towards making him decide to leave us.....though he hasn't commented on how his dad did his usual show of drinking 2 bottles of wine on xmas eve and not bothering to get up until gone midday so we were all sat around waiting for him as usual...).

Anyway, since then things have lurched along. He has said some horrid things to me and treated me like a fool at the best of times. I think he is so deeply entrenched in his feelings for the other woman that he has forgotten I am DS mum (again, keep asking myself, how and why can he feel so deeply for someone he has spent barely any time with?). For me, the hardest part now is facing up to the reality that I will no longer see my son every day as we move towards shared access and custody. Also hard is the fact that this other woman will be interacting with DS as and when he is staying with them. I do secretly hope that they both go back to the US (surely to happen if and when they have kids and don't think she will wait around for long as she does seem besotted with ex for some bizzare reason - her FB profile is a pic of them in you guessed it an aiprort!...) and ex only comes back here on his tod to see DS for holidays (selfish I know, but I can indulge a fantasy I guess).

Is he deluded or am I???? He has been focused on work a lot and seems to have lost a lot of his friends and social life - which I had noticed and tried to encourage him to get back up again. I am just heartbroken that he could do this to us - esp the cold and calculating way he abandoned us to go to San Fran to be with her over NYE and the fact that in the last 7 weeks our house has now gone on the market (cant afford it myself) and I am now out looking for any old job to support myself (oh, forgot to say, that I had taken voluntary redundancy from a very well paid job last March with his encouragement! When I called him up on this he said, 'oh well, but you didn't like that job anyway!!!')......
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Inbetween all the crying and anger, I do feel like I am going crazy........This is playing on my mind a lot now as he has just flown out today to go and see her in San Fran (6 night holiday, so will take their tally up to 21-22 days or so). It pains me that he will be taking her out for meals, whereas I had to practically nag him to death to book a babysitter for our anniversary in Dec ('nagged' him, as I usually arranged everything and was in need of some attention after his work trip - of course, I now know why he wasn't that bothered...). He will be having cosy conversations and intimate chats planning their future for when she moves here and talking about our son.

Does it get better? Does anyone have a crystal ball and can tell me they wont last....??!!

And how can I move on? I have tried the whole no contact thing - which worked for a while, but then I broke and sent him a long message about how he had ruined my life.... :( . I have read a ton of post affair books (including not just friends) but still struggle to make sense of it all some days. I know that he will definitely not come back as he has said this several times as he no longer loves me and the deep feelings he has for the OW. Trying to be positive but it is so, so hard some days........

solost - thanks for coming by and posting. I am reading through your threads and encouraged by the courage and strength you have shown (I don't know how I would have coped in your shoes with ex saying that he still loved me - mine is a right, selfish pig, so I can readily see his flaws and faults, though still open to a little 'what have I lost' wobble). Keep going - we will get there! :)

ironwilledmama - thanks - am hopeful of getting to that stage sooner rather than later as he is doing my head in...He does seem to have a full pack of 'poor me' cards that he enjoys laying out when the mood suits him. He had the nerve to say to me last week that all of this wasn't easy on him and that he hadn't taken the easy route.....Okay then....looks like its a pretty easy and nice life for him from where I am standing...

smokingguns - thanks for the insight and thoughts - I did indeed wake up calm and sane :), but that swiftly changed unfortunately. You are right and I have come to a decision about the phone calls - brought to a head today as his call this morning put a complete dampener on my day. He called at 8.45am to speak to DS which he did, DS then did his usual of saying 'bye' and then plonking the phone down on the cradle thereby cutting the line. Fine by me, as I don't want to talk to him, especially when it is 12.45am there and he is probably just about to jump into bed with her (or he's maybe having a 'break' to do his Daddy duties). He then called again, gave him a curt 'hello' then immediately passed phone to DS, they did babbling during which ex had the cheek to say say/ask DS ''I love you, do you love me?' WTF? Who asks that of a 2.5 year old?! DS again put the phone down.....and then ex calls for a third time, this time after my curt 'hello' he says, 'oh I just wanted to talk to you and find out how he (DS) slept in the night and what you have planned for today?'!! Told him he slept fine and we were off out on DS' first trip on a bus. He said 'that sounds good' and proceeded to arrange a time to call him this evening. Anyway, having spoken to a friend, I realise that this constant 2 calls a day and chatting to arrange a time to call is doing my head in...He is basically plunging into my thoughts and mind from the start of the day and at the end of the day and he isn't even in the country!! Madness, right? Oh and it doesn't help that with the time difference, his calls are either last thing at night before, ahem, bedtime or first thing in the morning (when they probably haven't even rolled out of bed yet).....Sent a text asking him to call at a certain time as we are busy and then when I speak to him this evening will tell him that he can only phone once a day and at a pre-agreed time......thoughts?

Ex has been away from the house for about 5 weeks now, but his time away has been interspersed with lots of time away either on business, away to see his parents, or with OW visiting (and of course this trip). I don't think he has spent more than 5 nights in a row in his new house yet and even when he has spent several days there, he has of course always been popping over here to give DS a bath so I wonder if the reality of only seeing his son (who he keeps saying is his priority and that his being happy will of course make DS happy....yup, seriously) 2 nights a week and every other weekend has really sunk in yet?

Though as I said, the decision to never take him back becomes easier and easier by the day - he has deliberately chosen this stranger over us, well and truly f**ked us over in terms of stability and the future and doesn't give a damn for anyone apart from himself, his precious OW and his parents. Pathetic....I do think he will soon be bending over backwards to please her once she arrives here (given that she has made the torturous journey all the way here for him) so no chance of him ditching her. Though I still cannot for the life of me not see how whatever rubbish she is spouting about DS coming first will actually bear out in reality. Does he really think she is coming here to play second fiddle to a toddler she hasn't even met yet? And all because her love for ex is so, well, overwhelming? That she will happy take to every other weekend being dominated by visits to farms, zoos and soft play centres? I know some step-parents/new partners can take to these roles, but he doesn't seem to have questioned the iffy background details (wherein lies my concern for DS - she can play as many mind games and really take ex to the cleaners if she so desires).

Forgot to add - someone asked me to look into my reasons for choosing ex and having a relationship with him (or something along those lines!). We met when we were both 25. I had just moved to our town to take up a role at a new company (same one he worked for). Met in the Sept/Oct, going out by the Dec and within a couple of weeks ex was declaring how madly in love he was with me! I of course, said something along the lines of 'well, I cant say the same just yet' (I am far too sensible minded for my own good I fear....). But it did strike me that he has a bit of 'previous' - albeit - with an 11 year gap - for this type of dramatic overture. We moved in together by the following August and lived together ever since......up until Jan when he moved out......

He has always been a bit of the jealous type (though not overbearing and demanding) and would also kid on about cheating etc, which is why I would never have expected this type of behaviour from him....

Ye gods - so could have a lifetime of putting up with him and his silly new bint.....

Sorry - will stop replying to my own thread in a sec.....

Just realised that in my first post I suggested that he maybe hadn't realised what he was doing as he was still having DS in his life....but thinking back on the various posts and the words of WWIFN, I think it may have just clicked that this actually makes no difference at all....and that he is just a selfish individual whose first thought is for himself and himself alone (am I getting there?!).......

Does OW know he has a son?

Does she definitely have a visa and a job to come to here?

If she doesn't, she can only come for a short time on a holiday visa. If she outstays that she will be here illegally........

Hi 3littlefrogs - yes, she does know about DS.....apparently that is why she is moving here. As she is supporting ex and his quest to make DS his priority.

She works for a US company that has offices here. Guessing thats what she was here for back in Feb. My sister found her on Linkedin - she was connected to ex and I was connected to ex at the same time! I think things are moving quite quickly as back in Jan, ex said she would be here in 6 months time and after I found out about her trip here in Feb, it suddenly scaled down to her being here in 3 months time......

They deserve each other.

You deserve so much better. You and DS will be ok - you sound a lovely mum.

I would put money on him doing exactly the same to her in a couple of years. I have known men like this.

DEE, I empathise completely with you. My H uttered exactly the same phrase 'when the DCs see how happy I am (with OW) they will be happy for me ??

He has since retracted that statement, apologised for saying it. He said some really hurtful things when he first left, that he has since apologised for. I really think they lose their sanity? for a while tbh.

My DC's still havent met OW (or BB - bunny boiler) as I have christened her. I spoke to her once and she told me how much of a 'big part of my DC's life she would become' and how 'she wanted them to meet her and see what a 'nice' person she was and how well she was looking after their dad!!. That kind of did it for me, there was no empathy with their feelings or needs at all, just what SHE was expecting/wanting to happen. I have asked them if they want to see her but they said they didnt and I feel they are of an age where they can decide for themselves (11, 8 & 6) so until they ask to see her - no contact.

'whose first thought is for himself and himself alone' (am I getting there?!)

Dee - you are indeed getting 'there' very swiftly by the sounds of it!

I think the important thing to do whilst keeping the above in mind, is use it to strengthen decisions you make eg.the phone calls.

It is so difficult to quickly change from being in a relationship with someone and expecting them to have our and our dc's best interests at heart at all times.... to accepting that the same person is thinking predominantly of themselves.

He is getting to call twice a day (when its convenient for him and getting to ask and find out what you're both doing that day) Why should he? - let him have a 'garbled' convo with ds, if he calls at a time thats convenient for you!
If ds hangs up, don't keep answering when he calls back, its non sensical for a child of his age to have to repeatedly speak on the phone. And I don't think you need to talk to him ( its up to you, of course) if there's something important he needs to know about ds, fair enough, but otherwise he doesn't need to know your going on the bus today.

I remember the exact same conversations and I can see now my intentions were to perhaps prick his conscience even a little bit, thinking of me and dd doing our everyday, innocent things but it doesn't work! It just makes them think, 'good! they are both fine, now I can get back to what I want to do'

Sorry, don't want to sound harsh, its just that I lived this and know how difficult it all is and I want you to put ds and yourself first to the extreme until your strong enough to let your guard down a little.

I'm sure Solost will also recognise your H saying to a 2 year old "Do you love me?" because you know, Dee this isn't about your son's needs at all - it's about your H's needs, nothing else. All these questions about your parenting are just to score points off you, unsettle you and in the process, contribute to his own script of being a "good Dad".

This notion of being a good Dad is so flawed, because good Dads treat the DCs' mother well and with kindness. They put their children's needs before their own - and that means understanding that for most children, they don't want to stop what they are doing and take tiresome phone calls from a guilt-laden father. These poor kids feel honour-bound to speak to someone they'd rather not - it's so unfair and tramples over their rights.

You're doing really well if you're not interacting with him yourself Dee, but I would certainly enforce some boundaries about these phone calls if you sense they are becoming tiresome or in any way distressing for your son. I understand your fears about your ex potentially alleging that you are denying him his rights, but as long as you can look yourself in the mirror each day and say you are putting your son's needs first, your ex can think what he likes. This is all about his welfare and not your son's.

The start of your relationship doesn't surprise me in the least and completely tallies with the Romantic Idiot life script your ex has been following.

One of the best things you can do to retain your own sanity is to remember your own truth. Your ex has a motive for re-writing the story of your relationship, whereas your memories are likely to be far more accurate. Where you can perhaps agree is that he was under-invested in your relationship and failed to nurture it himself, but please see that in this type of affair, even if you had been a Stepford wife tending to his every need, it wouldn't have mattered a jot, as soon as a romantic opportunity presented.

Unless he had been invested and giving more to your relationship, it was always going to be vulnerable to something like this happening.

I would also echo that you are being too hard on yourself, thinking that dwelling on the past is a bad thing. Actually, you need to dwell on what happened here and understand it, or else you will be carting a false script around that could be damaging to your self-esteem and future relationships.

Sorry 'garbled' should read babbling!

And yes my ex, started asking dd if she loved him all the time too! I picked up on it also, as it seemed strange he needed that reassurance off a child. Insecurity

DEE, WWIFN is right, H also asked the DC's whether they loved him/how much they loved him when he came to see them. I also thought it was strange and not very fair tbh. I see now he was trying to validate himself as being a good dad

They all follow the same script don't they? I wouldnt have believed it until I read yours/others threads.

Lordy - the man has gone crazy....

After sending him a text to call between 7pm and 7.15pm, he replies that that's fine. So he calls - DS is in the middle of doing a poo (he is at the stage where he likes his privacy even though he is still in nappies) and is ushering me out of the living room so he can get on with it. I pass the phone to him, ask him to say 'hello daddy' which he does before pushing the phone (and me) away! I then have to go on and explain to ex what has happened and also raise the whole one call a day thing. And he does not like it. Questioned me on whose benefit this was really for (didn't say that yes, I could do with a break from hearing from him morning and evening and instead mentioned that DS rarely speaks anyway and it was becoming cumbersome having to discuss times for calls every day. I then stupidly sent a text reiterating that this was for DS' benefit to which he replied that he doubted that a single time rather than two set times was for DS' benefit. I replied in a very nice tone (I think!) saying that I wont be drawn into a debate, we shouldn't have to plan our day around his calls and to let me know whether he would prefer to phone in the am or pm, depending on the time zone difference wherever he is (I actually gave him a choice). I now await for the 'you are blocking me from speaking to my son - don't flatter yourself, I don't want to talk to you anyway' (yep, heard that one already a few weeks back) and possible threats to take away something from the house.....to be honest, am fed up with him now. He has really pushed me since all this crap started and I have just sat here and taken his nonsense, more or less out of fear that we would end up on the streets or he would force me into plundering my limited savings to make ends meet. I know that I shouldn't have sent him those 'you have ruined my life' emails, but, he has/had, or that is how I have felt up until very, very recently. I had no job, no means of support, bar savings, he had abandoned us and the person I thought I knew and loved literally died overnight.....I am starting to feel differently now (maybe its the job aspect?) and feel like I have put up and shut up with enough now! He has forgotten to call DS on a couple of occasions and I have not once called him up on this and yet, I am made to feel like the bad person here? Ditto - he just goes away willy-nilly and again, I say nothing. I think he is taking the pee expecting me to answer the phone a couple of times a day when he is so obviously with her (I have flashbacks as when he was with her for NYE, I distinctly heard a female voice in the background - as if someone had accidentally walked in on someone else on the phone - questioned him and he made it seem like I was hearing things...and we all know what the truth was in the end...). I do think I need to work on the whole separating his actions from his love/role/need in DS' life as a dad, but its only been 8 weeks!!

Oh, and I also figured out from the call that he is not in the place I thought he was, but in a completely different part of the US (or world even!) - I suspect he is actually visiting OWs hometown to meet her family and friends and convince them that she is not giving up her life for a complete nutter.....Dunno - this makes me feel even more unsettled as it all seems so real now....I know that it is not good to linger on their relationship, but seriously, how can she, her friends and family accept this guy and what he has done? I can partly guess some of the answer in that he has probably given them a demonised version of me and our relationship and a saintly version of his actions and responsibilities...

Grrr!!! Bloody romantic idiot indeed!!!

Sorry to repeat myself Dee, your ds does not need to speak to him every day and he is using your son to blackmail you (plus presenting this picture-perfect view of himself to the ridiculous woman re: The Loving Father - why do women fall for this shit??). You need to get the space to breath instead of being constantly pushed under water, need the chance to get yourself stabilised to run a peaceful home.

He gave up the privilege of being party to your domestic minutiae when he absented himself by abandoning his family to pursue his fantasy - the sooner he is disabused of his script the better, he can't dominate you to push it through. Have you had the chance to source a family lawyer yet re putting boundaries in place asap - the courts do not promote constant contact between absent parent and dc as it is destabilising for dc, the courts promote blocks of time with AP. Drastically cut the calls to 3 times a week, then down to 2. Don't answer his calls in between. Don't let him come round every night to bathe his son, like a royal visitor checking his domain. He no longer has that privilege, remember. Do not facilitate his script, particularly by letting him use ds as a walk-on in his play.

Yes, I know this looks like witholding contact in order to teach him a lesson. It isn't. It's protecting you and your ds, your home, your peace. That's priceless and an essential - your peace is essential to ds's peace and the peace of your home; ex is the enemy to your peace atm and he has to be put OUT. He walked out remember, his choice, and has clearly shown he fully expects to step over you, forcing you to conform, expecting full access to his son. It doesn't work like that.

btw, did you say you were planning on joint custody Dee?

solost - isnt that unbelievable?? What planet are these blokes actually on? Sadly, I really cant see my ex backtracking or apologising. He did some wishy-washy 'I'm sorry' early on, but I believe that he is now firmly enveloped in his love bubble and will not see what he is doing is wrong in any way (esp as he still thinks I should bear some of the responsibility for his affair as I should have realised how unhappy he was and that I was unhappy as well (wow - wish I had known how unhappy I was, would never have quit my job to become financially dependent on someone who now couldn't give a flying you-know-whatsit for me, let alone have a second child with him?!). Unfortunately, my DS is too young to make that decision and at times I do see glimpses of the old man I knew who lived for his son and was excited to see him at any time of the day. I just dont think he realises just how stretched he will be with OW living here, demanding job and DS....and I dread that it is DS that will suffer in the end....

Ironwilledmama - you are spot on! I did think that by dropping the fact that we would be going on our first bus ride today would prick his mind a bit, but just got the 'oh good! Have fun!' comment. Wont bother as can see that nothing, but nothing will make him see sense about what he is doing....And I don't mean sense in terms of him coming back, but I guess in terms of him actually realising the pain, upset and hurt that he has caused and for him to be truly and honestly sorry. But don't think that will happen - and certainly, I think I will be the last person he will turn to and apologies if/when reality hits.
Agree about the insecurity thing......all very sad really.

WWIFN - I think every day and every interaction, I have to think two, three of four times to check that my interaction is necessary for DS or house issues and not feeding into anything else that I need or want. It is very hard - for example, today, I so wanted to know where ex was in the world (bit of a game now! :) ), but didn't ask. I remember reading your advice to Solost, that its important to start acting like you are detached even if that's not the case just yet. I guess I do still have mixed feelings for him, though my saddest thoughts are that we can never get together again after what he has done (am working on accepting that I am worth much more than the way he has treated me.....). I have said to him several times how can he treat the mother of his only child like this and he just sits there in silence....Like Solost, some of the things he has said, esp in the beginning have been shocking....But he really doesn't care.....Funnily enough, a few days after he got back from his NYE break, I just looked at him and said that I could have transformed into a supermodel, won the lottery and become a domestic goddess and practised the karma sutra in the bedroom all night and he still would have done what he did....again, just got a blank stare..... :(

" I suspect he is actually visiting OWs hometown to meet her family and friends "

You don't know that Dee! Negative fantasy alert! Don't torture yourself, he's doing enough of that without you adding to it. I know it's hard but try not to let those thoughts get the upper hand.

would like to punch him...real hard

smokingnuns (sorry, posted 'smokingguns' earlier!) - thanks for the repeat. I do need to hear it and start standing up for myself and DS. I think he is taking the mick as he is so ego-driven at the moment and, yes, I have allowed him to walk all over me a bit since this all started. Not good for the old self confidence and esteem. Though this bullying side of ex (has come out before - most recently for xmas trip) is something that I can so clearly see that I am better off without. It was/is crippling and I dont have to buckle to that pressure and nonsense anymore. Yes, working towards joint custody, something along the lines of him having DS 2 nights a week and every other weekend. Will be heart-breaking to do that though and I think I have been spinning out the whole access thing so that DS is still in the old family home with me.....though he has been very clingy which I am trying to change as I do realise that I need time to myself. We are working up towards ex having DS for an overnight, then a whole day/night and then weekend. Also, I think DS is used to not having ex around/him being away on business, though this is no excuse for delaying joint access of course.

SO agree with TDada !!

I'm not sure joint custody is the way to go tbh Dee. He is not a responsible father - I don't care what he or anybody says, if he is doing this to you then, even if his ego calms down, he not a responsible father for joint custody. He can't do over his child's mother and be deemed responsible.

Also, from experience, kids find the to-ing and fro-ing extremely difficult. The courts don't like it because it is so destabilising for the kids. Hugely so (I wish I'd known all this when we were going through it )

btw, did he suggest you give up your job - ie when you did, a while back?

If you are able to find the strength to reject him, then his ego trip will be shortened.....

Give yourself a break though dee - it's only been 8 weeks. You probably still love him - those feelings don't die off in an instant, not in NORMAL human beings anyway! You have to be human about it as this is a very human crisis. You'll get there. If you compare this to a bereavement - which it is really isn't it? - the first year is just a blur, a blank; you are in such a fug that you have no idea what you're doing. HOpe you're getting some good support around you - if not, can you visit your folks to get some space?

Dee so sorry you are going through this, you sound a very intelligent and lovely lady and do not deserve the shit your DP is putting you and your DS through.

I am going through a very similar situation to yourself, my H left for OW in August, I have done the torture of wondering where he is and what he is doing and it really doesnt help but is all part of learning how to move on and detach. I can remember when H told me he had met OW's parents (they do not live locally) and I stood in the kitchen with him and had to walk away as I felt physically sick and burst into tears, it hurt so much. Everyone who has helped me on here know that I have had terrible trouble detaching but I am now doing a lot better and it really does hurt so much less now that I am not having any contact with him, but that is easier for me as I do not have children with him.

He is also a romantic idiot who saved OW (she is 27 years younger than him!) likes to think he is the knight in shining armour, shame he didnt worry about me when he saved the OW. The main reason I had to detach was I was still receiving texts at Christmas that "he loved me, always had and always would", he was still coming round holding and kissing me and it was really messing with my mind.

I have been so low and I really hope you dont take the slippery slop into the pit of despair. You are sounding so much stronger that I have been and I wish you all the best.

Gosh - it is really shocking/amazing how they can all follow the same script!! Of course, I am now wondering if all romantic idiots end up the same in terms of feeling genuine remorse and guilt and being truly sorry for what they have inflicted on us? Do they? As said, can't see my ex ever getting to this point as his ego and arrogance are immense. Plus, he is that sort of person that as he has now committed to the OW by promising her the heaven, stars and earth, he is now of the mindset that he cant let her down or break her heart/upset her even though he has done a thousand times worse to me/us (even though I personally think she hasn't made that much of a sacrifice for him - surely if it doesnt work out, she can just ship back out and put it all down to a sabbatical or working holiday or something....). Have an inkling that this is more romantic idiot characteristics......

Well, no call this morning (I gave him a choice of am or pm) which has been good. Very good in fact. Had a lovely day so far - about to wake DS up from nap and then make some cakes. If/when he phones this evening, at least the bulk of the day is over with so he cant ruin it!

smokingnuns - yes, very naughty of me indulging in a negative fantasy of what they are up to (am still convinced though! . I told him before he left that I didn't care where he was going so just need to work on believing that fully! Re-read the 'happiness' quote and posts here (must print them out!) to put me in a good and positive frame of mind this morning. Re job, he fully supported me leaving. When I was dithering about whether to hit the submit button, I sent him a flurry of emails where I asked him 'shall I do it?', 'not sure' etc. He replied back 'go for it', 'we'll be okay' etc. The only real problem I thought of back then was the he hadn't been in his job for very long so a bit unstable if anything happened to him, no way did I think this would happen, or that he could turn so quickly......he is a bit money-orientated (thinks he has done loads for DS, when most of what he has provided day on day is a roof over our heads and paid some of the bills - i was also contributing from my payout. All very good, but I think this is where he is getting mixed up when it comes to what he has done for DS....).

romneymarsh - So sorry to hear that you have had to deal with similar situation. What do these men think of (oh, yeah, themselves!). I do sometimes wonder if I will have a crash soon and start pining for him to come back. I hope not. I think things may be a bit easier for me as ex had started to be mean to me in last few months of relationship anyway (obviously a side effect of his diverted attentions). He was nice at times, but I can so clearly remember the bad times now - didn't think much of it then, just put it down to stress etc. I also used to get the kissing, hugging, touching etc (week after OW had been here, took DS round to see his house - DS wouldn't go with him, so reluctantly went! - and as we arrived on the doorstep he leaned over to touch my hip and waist as I walked in.....told him not to touch me ever again. He also insists on sitting very close to me on the sofa when he comes round on the rare occassions I am in the same room as him and DS. Dont know where I would stick my phone (somewhere around his body I think) if he ever sent me messages like that.....

TDada - me too! I havent laid a finger on him or even so much as touched any of his items (not that I condone that sort of stuff! But the worst he has had off me is a shouting match). Hence why I think he thinks he can just get away with giving me any old crap now.

One thing I do need to work on is to stop blaming myself. He has put a lot on me - aside from saying that I caused all of the tension on the xmas trip he has also said that whilst we were sitting in airport cafe for breakfast he decided then that I was being so miserable and would leave me!! So I do have periods when I think that I could have prevented this for DS and all the crap that we are going through. Silly I know...

Re single parenting books/advice that was mentioned earlier; just figured that for him and his romantic idiot tendencies, he is not seeing himself as a single parent at all as he is now in a relationship. Think that is why he shows little interest in anything aside from banging on about when he will have DS overnight (as opposed to practicalities we need to deal with such as how to parent jointly, DS' needs etc IYSWIM?).

You absolutely must stop blaming yourself. Nothing you could have done or said would have prevented this. I promise you.

IME romantic idiots nearly always regret their choices, but they don't feel genuine sorrow for anyone other than themselves. They never feel guilt for messing up anyone else's lives, just self-pity that they've wrecked their own.

It also takes years for them to finally admit that they made the wrong choices - far too long for any sane person to wait and normally by that time, the partner left behind views it as a lucky escape and has created a much happier life, wondering why on earth s/he put up with the person for so long, especially when the very accurate memories return of what that person was really like - normally brought into sharp contrast by the much better person with whom they are now sharing their life.

Thanks WWIFN - yes, I do believe that this is true deep down. And the descriptions suit ex down to a tee. I think I've already said that I struggle to understand how in general this OW (and all OW) can see these men as gods or great prizes or 'an amazing person that she is so lucky to have found' (which is what ex's OW wrote). Are they really that dumb/unstable? I cling onto the hope that there is something/someone far, far better for me out there..... :)

Well, he did call this evening - hadn't bothered replying to my very civil text asking if he preferred am or pm, but had guessed he would call in the pm. Said hello and then passed phone to DS who proceeded to put the phone down twice (meaning ex phoned the house twice - he didn't bother to phone a third time). We exchanged no other words which was good and much better than the usual 'oh, so shall I call at 8am tomorrow?' nonsense. I did feel a slight pang of 'oh, so he's not bothered about us then?', before I thought, well actually he's not and its all better this way.....