Feeling lost and lonely (ex had an affair, left us)

[Dee34]

Hi All,

This is my first post on these boards, though I have posted my story elsewhere......I just cant seem to stop thinking and mulling over things and searching for answers :(

Bit of a long story, but to start from the beginning, on Tuesday 28th Dec my ex announced that he was not in love with me anymore (usual cliches about being best friends, love you but etc). This of course sent me into a tailspin as I had just endured an awful xmas at his parents in Scotland that he insisted we go to (dont get on with his folks as they have never helped us out with DS and ex always seemed to avoid confrontation and would never raise any issues directly with them which made for an increasingly tense atmosphere). For background, back in November when I knew I would not be able to hack another xmas there and so I suggested we stay here and have a little family xmas, he told me that I was playing with people emotions by changing my mind and that I could stay here at home if I wanted but he and DS (2.5 years old) were going to Scotland regardless!! I guess I should have sussed that something was a bit iffy but I just brushed it off at the time (by Nov, affair had been going on for a month and actually between Oct - start of affair - and the bombshell in Dec, there was a difference in ex's attitude which I only really pin-pointed in the last few weeks). Anyway, we had a terrible night on the 28th - lots of crying, very emotional etc. I asked him if he was seeing someone else and he said no. I asked him to swear on DS life (childish I know, but said this in the heat of the moment) to which he replied no, he won't swear on his life as he doesn't do that sort of stuff but he held his hands up and promised he was telling the truth. I of course believed him as for me this was all out of the blue..On the Weds, I was quite teary and by lunchtime ex was saying that he was confused, needed some space etc. I said how about he stay in a hotel nearby and come round every day to see DS, take him out etc. I even phoned up several hotels for him to check rates and availability! This was during DS nap and by the time I had gone upstairs to get him, ex had done a spreadsheet and had decided he wanted to go to San Francisco instead. Some fluff about always liking San Fran from work trips (he has been there several times in the past year for genuine work reasons). Again, naïve fool that I was I agreed to him going. We drew up a list of issues that we would both think and work through (usual - lack of sex, though we were trying for baby number 2, arguing, his parents etc) and agreed not to tell any friends or family about what was happening until we knew what was happening ourselves so no one could 'influence' us. So ex went to San Fran and DS and I stayed here (everyone assumed he was here with us during whole period). Anyway, as soon as he was in San Fran his tone and attititude completely changed and he became very distant (he was relaxing and not looking at the issues or given them any thought etc). I finally 'broke' on NYE and asked him what was going on etc and that's when he said he had met someone but that nothing had happened between them, which was actually a lie.

To cut a long story short, he came back on Weds 5th Jan, determined not to work things out. Over the weeks I have learnt that other woman lives and works in San Fran, they met on a work trip in mid Oct last year (in a bar - only kissed - met on the second to last day before he headed back to the UK), had DAILY contact from the time ex returned home, started sleeping together during his next work trip out there in early Dec (a 5 night work trip) and that he was with her all along when he abandoned us over NYE to go to San Fran - he was having a lovely holiday, planning his life with her, whilst I was here like a muppet, trying to get an appointment with a sex therapist (as I obviously had 'issues'!). She is 30 (7 years younger than us) and had moved to San Fran from Nashville in June last year, so seems to me like there were a couple of lonely fools that met over some cocktails? Ex keeps banging on about how she is leaving her life over there (not quite sure what she is giving up bar a job and accommodation compared to what he is gambling with) to be with him, how he loves her so much, never felt like this before about anyone including me - starting to make me a bit sick if I'm honest. If you added up all the days they had actually been together from mid Oct to just before that post xmas trip, it amounts to around 6-7 days actually physically together and they weren't even together 24/7 as he was actually working on these two work trips (have confirmed with a colleague). So it was just hooking up at night and having lots of fresh and exciting nookie? Rest has been built around a deep emotional attachement from their daily calls/text/emails/webcams etc (probaby worse than having random one night stands I think). I think that even now tally of days is around 16 or so when you add on the NYE trip. But that is enough for her to give up her life and job and move here to be with him and he reckons she will be here in 3 months time (until then they will be racking up airmiles). I just dont understand it at all......I guess they are soulmates or star-crossed lovers that were destined to meet?! Everyone keeps telling me that he will one day wake up and see what he has done or that they will break up as soon as she gets here, but the flipside is that they may be together for a long while and that is something that I am now trying to reconcile with - esp as she will effectively be playing stepmum to DS even though ex doesn't really know anything about her bar what she has told him and shown him during their limited time together (of course there is the very real possibility that he is even lying about dates and that this all started way before Oct. I don't know and to be honest, don't care now as all it would prove is that he is more selfish and a bigger cheat and liar than first thought)....

Throughout all of this, ex has been going on about he need to be happy and how he has acted out of self preservation. And he has variously been unhappy for the last few months, 6 months, 9 months, 15 months, 18 months depending on what mood you catch him in when you speak to him.....unhappy for so long that I didn't notice it and yet only gets the balls to leave once he meets someone else? I can accept that we didn't have a 100% perfect relationship, but we had been together for 11 years and of course share DS so am shocked and hurt that it ended in this way. For his part, ex varies between assuming no guilt and saying that the affair was symptomatic of our relationship to wanting to do 2010 over again and make different choices and regretting going to the US over NYE and for making us go to Scotland over Xmas (apparently, as I made the atmosphere so tense for everyone, this was the last push towards making him decide to leave us.....though he hasn't commented on how his dad did his usual show of drinking 2 bottles of wine on xmas eve and not bothering to get up until gone midday so we were all sat around waiting for him as usual...).

Anyway, since then things have lurched along. He has said some horrid things to me and treated me like a fool at the best of times. I think he is so deeply entrenched in his feelings for the other woman that he has forgotten I am DS mum (again, keep asking myself, how and why can he feel so deeply for someone he has spent barely any time with?). For me, the hardest part now is facing up to the reality that I will no longer see my son every day as we move towards shared access and custody. Also hard is the fact that this other woman will be interacting with DS as and when he is staying with them. I do secretly hope that they both go back to the US (surely to happen if and when they have kids and don't think she will wait around for long as she does seem besotted with ex for some bizzare reason - her FB profile is a pic of them in you guessed it an aiprort!...) and ex only comes back here on his tod to see DS for holidays (selfish I know, but I can indulge a fantasy I guess).

Is he deluded or am I???? He has been focused on work a lot and seems to have lost a lot of his friends and social life - which I had noticed and tried to encourage him to get back up again. I am just heartbroken that he could do this to us - esp the cold and calculating way he abandoned us to go to San Fran to be with her over NYE and the fact that in the last 7 weeks our house has now gone on the market (cant afford it myself) and I am now out looking for any old job to support myself (oh, forgot to say, that I had taken voluntary redundancy from a very well paid job last March with his encouragement! When I called him up on this he said, 'oh well, but you didn't like that job anyway!!!')......
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Inbetween all the crying and anger, I do feel like I am going crazy........This is playing on my mind a lot now as he has just flown out today to go and see her in San Fran (6 night holiday, so will take their tally up to 21-22 days or so). It pains me that he will be taking her out for meals, whereas I had to practically nag him to death to book a babysitter for our anniversary in Dec ('nagged' him, as I usually arranged everything and was in need of some attention after his work trip - of course, I now know why he wasn't that bothered...). He will be having cosy conversations and intimate chats planning their future for when she moves here and talking about our son.

Does it get better? Does anyone have a crystal ball and can tell me they wont last....??!!

And how can I move on? I have tried the whole no contact thing - which worked for a while, but then I broke and sent him a long message about how he had ruined my life.... :( . I have read a ton of post affair books (including not just friends) but still struggle to make sense of it all some days. I know that he will definitely not come back as he has said this several times as he no longer loves me and the deep feelings he has for the OW. Trying to be positive but it is so, so hard some days........

Hi darling

On iPhone in tropical queensland so no doubt lots of autocorrect!!

So. Sounds like ex is continuing to want his cake eat it but keep the option of previous cake alive and kicking. It doesn't sound like he is being very fair to you or thinking of the impact of his prevarications. Whilst echoing the other great posts I would also say that please don't feel likening can't post about any conflicting feelings - if it was as easy as recognizing fuckwittery and moving seamlessly on we wouldn't need these boards to begin with. We always want to believe in the good of people even when confronted with their worst side. That's not to say you should be entertaining his comments and or reconciliation - just to say that you loved Jim, had a child with him, struggled to come to terms with the new him so it's understandable to feel mixed emotions. Is he an idiot for expressing them? Yes. Are you an idiot to be confused by them? No. As xal has said he is keeping exit route open - my ex did same when his ow broke up with him and honestly I struggled with it. There is a big difference in knowing how you should react to how you do react so keep to help.

So. I'm divorced now. Don't feel so different - sad for sure. Holiday mice change if scene but honestly exhausting and a lonely. Day of divorce = ok, today = ok, yesterday (day after) = awful. Could not get myself together and don ended up watching movies all day. If I'd thrown in some Aldi blue pop (didn't) would have been Jeremy Kyle mother. However today wonderfulndsy at cairns zoo and son had a ball. I had a lovely email from dear friend part of which I'm sharing as applies to you and all other lively ladies here - remember we are amazing and we will be ok...

" hope you had a good flight yesterday and are managing to get a bit of a break or at least the change of scenery is doing you good.... Thinking of you today . You're an incredibly beautiful, talented and vivacious woman and a fantastic mum - dont forget that. Ex is a fool to let you go and I really do hope and pray that there's a brighter future just around the corner with some happier times and some wonderful memories to be made.

I know this is the pits and its not a position you ever expected to be in, but you aren't alone. It can't stay this bad forever. Might seem like forever now though! Just take it one day at a time or an hr at a time when that's too overwhelming and be very proud of what you've achieved in the last year. I've no idea how you've made it out of bed and to work, and just kept it together. I learn a lot from you and your strength of character and humour are a testimony to your courage and ability to overcome. What is it they say about it taking rain to make rainbows? Well, you've been in a monsoon so there's gotta be some sun on its way (and maybe some expected treasures in the pot of gold at the end... ) "

Here's to learning to dance in the rain whilst we accept the storm will take a long time to pass xx

Ooh auto correct overdrive - hope u got drift xc

Thanks ladies - I also recieved a good old kicking talking to from RL friends who (all) also echoed that I should not dare feel sorry for him. So, I guess I was softening to him a bit in that I was feeling sorry for him (and Xales, Patience, Springy - you were right, a bit of worming and he was then quick to suddenly change track and switch his focus to how and when he could have DS and swap out schedules a bit given that he is spending copius amounts of time away this week and next. Thing is, I would have been happy - to a point to have discussed this and agreed new days for contact without all that emotional stuff). I did start to falter a bit and would not have guessed it was more to do with him losing his control over me now that the house is gone....

Patience - no, not read back on the thread. I probably should now that I have moved out and see how life has changed so much (am sure that along with the heartbreaking moment, there will be some cringeworthy rants in there). I think I'll do this soon.....should be the final swipe at batting away any feelings of sympathy I may have and maybe convince myself to save those for myself.

Xales - yes, agreed. I think he is spinning the whole 'I have regrets', 'I have shed so many tears on my decision' for effect. If he was so unhappy then he could easily go off and be on his own. Though knowing ex, I feel he will be manically trying to save face as he has ditched us and told the whole world and his dog how great/fantastic/understanding new girlfriend is, and of course she has come all the way from the US for him, so he cant possibly walk or admit he made a mistake if that was the case (imo) unless he has a breakdown. And as said, he knows that there is no coming back to me.

Money has now transferred over - thank goodness. Joint accounts closing down next week after final cheques are banked.

Fab re money.just read wwifn post on front page the other day and thought it was good ,especially ,I will parent as I see fit.my X not seen or paid for kids since mid July,that is what happens when an abuser finally loses control.only way he can punish me is financially.But. it is the kids that miss out not me.once they go over to the darkside it is a very fast spiral downwards..dolly I have done the full movie day also,they can take away many things but they can't take away Disney.

Ha! re Disney, Patience

A friend asked if she could have our Disney videos for her dd (4) - I smiled sweetly but privately went into panic mode. ds (21) too. I scoured the charity shops and bought a whole load to send to her. No way is anybody getting our Disney collection.

phew about the money safe and sound, Dee. Glad you have seen the light and that you have RL people keeping you on the light side

Big hugs to you Dolly. While you're waiting for this vile time to pass, make sure you enjoy yourself eh? Cherish even the little things, it helps to keep the scales balanced.

Love to you both XX

Lol ,Aristocats,101 dalmations and Jungle book all top films.Had a 5 film star wars weekend the other week ,yoda is wise but Han Solo is very very sexy
"Impressive Patience ,but you are not a Jedi yet "

Dolly - know that you must be experiencing a load of emotions with the divorce coming through. Do take care and see this as another step on the path towards a brighter future for you and DS.......lets remember all the places we will go and their purpose and that of course, we have brains in our head and feet in our shoes and the world and the future is ours for the taking and moulding.....

Huge thanks for sharing the email - it is a lovely sentiment and one I will try and remember going forward. Hope you are doing as mentioned in the email and relaxing and having a proper break. Take care and looking forward to hearing about your time away.

Disney films! DS loves them and he is only 3!! Have a boxset of DVDs which are always on hand.....

Things still muddling along here. Still masses to unpack and there are boxes and piles of just stuff everywhere - giving me a slight headache, so have decided to take tomorrow off and properly tackle it all (or at least some of it). Ex is away again, which is kind of pissing me off - in as much as I am here to pick up the flack of childcare whilst he is off dashing around the world sucking up big bonuses so that he can maintain his new impressive lifestyle. He was in Milan last Mon and Tues, saw DS on Weds, then off somewhere else on Thursday (leaving early on Thursday morning) and Friday (arriving back late on Friday evening)....and today, he has flown out to San Fran - the state where this whole mess started. He says that he has gone for a work meeting, but he flew out today, after midday (he sent stupid text as I had ignored his call in the morning) and yet will be back in the UK in early hours of Wednesday morning - so, what, not even there for 36 hours?! Sounds a bit suss to me to fly all that way - he is not a CEO or something and in the past, his trips were usually for 5 nights plus...hmmmm...he will then see DS again on Weds evening, but oh, he is then away in London on Thursday and staying overnight, back late on Friday - and he never did all that staying overnight in London stuff when we were together, so not hard to work out the lure this time as doubt girlf will schlepp back here whilst he lives it up in London for whatever reason. I feel like calling him out on it, but cant be bothered, but feel like he is taking me for a mug in terms of crying how he loves DS so much and misses him when he's away and is mad keen to swap days on his terms, but obv not when it suits him - I guess I cant really say anything as Thurs not his usual night anyway - but am silently seething that he did a big cry on my doorstep when he came round to drop off DS this time last week before Milan........I think ex pissing me off is to do with ups and downs experiencing at the moment in new house. One moment, I feel elated and glad to be rid of him and then the next I feel quite down about the whole living alone, being a single parent and a lifetime ahead by myself in terms of relationships (and as much as I try not to think of ex and new girfl, at the back of my mind is the thought that even he has someone to relax on the sofa with at the end of a long day etc. I dont think being surrounded by all these boxes is helping much).

I am also triggering a bit - prompted by house move maybe? or the crap emotional drivel of his huge regrets and river of tears for what he has done - in terms of nonsense little things, like how ex could set up Skype for virtual trysts with then OW from Oct and yet for first 2.5 years of DS' life and with all his travelling, he did not suggest once doing this so he could see DS? But I know I cant waste my time thinking about what he did/didn't do as that was in the past and his present/future is of no concern to me....it is just so frustrating.....

DS still doing well in terms of new house. Now focusing on work for a bit (submitted paperwork for my probation! Just need final director sign-off and approval - think I need to do a 30min presentation to pass this bit though). Still debating about whether to request p/t work in the new year (just one afternoon off a week before DS starts school next year. A new guy joins the team who will be a DR, so hoping with some re-jigging of work that it might just happen).

Lesson well and truly learnt re misplaced sympathy for ex....

He is in US/SF and arranging to call DS. He did not lay out some requests in the first place given that he knows hiswhirldwind schedule of meetings and flights, which was annoying as had to engage in 'regular' text with him for his pissing calls. He calls last night (during which he tells me that ex is driving around in his car - long story, but started with him giving me some long-winded explaination on whether he would be able to do nursery run tomorrow pm. Instead of 'yes and if I am running late, I will let you know', I get 'well, I am getting the train back this time as I have found that I have been a bit tired on previous trips, so new gf dropped me off at the airport this time. I will be getting x train at y time and I should be back in for z time'. And thing is, I remember clearly handing over new insurance policy docs back when he was getting mail sent to old house - envelope was stamped 'your new docs are inside'...so I probably handed over the paperwork for him insuring her on what was our family car that I spent ages helping him pick out, debating whetehr to go for the 5 or 7 seater option due to future babies....Oh well!). As usual DS not fussed about speaking on the phone and I sent him a brief email asking him to email me back if he was calling 7.30am or 7.30pm (wanted to get off the phone and didn't want any further details on his new domestic set-up). No reply, yesterday evening (bearing in mind, I sent the email 5 mins after hanging up) or this morning. Cue 7.30am this morning, I am in the bathroom with DS getting us ready (and I am sat on the toilet - sorry it TMI!) and the phone rings! I did not rush to answer as not expecting the call and besides couldn't leave DS in bathroom by himself and I was on the toilet......so, think oh well, he call again later or something. But no call and instead I get an email in response to my mails from last night...

'Hi Dee34

I got these emails but forgot to respond on time.

Please assume I will call in future as a default. It is really annoying that you need an email confirmation to know if I am going to call DS. Just have the phone switched on and not on silent please and answer if I call.'

I had said that I would be turning my phone off on those evenings that he normally calls for DS to stop any 'I have regrets' texts from him (still not got round to the special phone for him thing yet with house move).

So, how come its my fault that he did not respond on time? Am I wrong to be slightly peed with his statement in second bit?! I was/am silently fuming. Its like he does not understand boundaries and I suspect that with his trying to (possibly?) soften me up in the last few weeks with his deep sadness, tears, and regrets, he now thinks that he has reeled me back in and I am back on side to do his bidding as and when he sees fit. How come HE couldn't sit down last week, work out his flights and meetings and say 'could we have a phone contact plan like this please whilst I am away?'. And then not so much as a sorry. Does he really think I am some mug to spend her time waiting around for his call (most probably).

Rest of the email - he now wants to spend a day or two with DS as annual leave (good for DS, but why has it taken 10 months?!). Asking me when his folks can come down (eh? what has this got to do with me.....? i can guess that he will be looking to ask me to (again) give up some of my contact time with DS to accommodate his parents being down so they can spend more time with DS....even though they have been down just once since this all started at NYE, were not here for his birthday etc etc). And what DS' plans are over Xmas.......

Sorry to rant like a loon on such a small thing - TOTM, so best do it on here than let rip on email

Next time I will insist that he emails me a schedule for contact before he goes off somewhere to avoid this farce......contact at other times is pretty standard and does not need discussing.

Will batten down the hatches for his return and up the ante in terms of NC. I dont want him getting to me or winding me up when I am not even in the old house anymore....

Dee I would really suit myself on this if u still find it upsetting.Just sounds like too much contact between you and X and still lots of entitlement from him.If you miss a call u don't have to feel guilty.You don't have to explain yourself to him .If changes in contact suit u fine ,if not stick to the previous arrangement.He will manipulate as often as he can but u can stop that with the less conversations u have.I'm all for fathers rights but this shouldn't be upsetting for u because then Ds has an upset mum.so my plan would be have regular call times and if that has to change he can text and let u know.That is perfectly reasonable and the kind of text u would expect him to send to Ds when he is older and u r out of the phonecall equation anyway.Just whittle ur own contact VIA email,text,phone down now til absolute minimal.He still sees u as inferior and tbh needs a fucking good wake up.Now quietly he will get that as u detatch more from his life and focus more on your new life.

I missed x3 calls in the summer.we were playing in the garden.X left 20 mins worth of voicemails. Called me everything vile vile calls.Said I was stopping the kids speaking to him.we were outside on the trampoline.I had had enough and took my phone to the police cos I had,had enough.He was arrested but not charged.We haven't heard from him since or received any money .Only way he can affect my life now is witholding maintenance.I knew it would happen but I had to stop his abuse.All I'm saying is if u don't change ur behavior and take a strong stance ,these guys don't respect u enough to change their own behaviour.Yes he will take a huff and bitch about u but hey,they do that already shucks LOL,as long as Ds doesnt miss out its cool,dada just has to learn Dee has changed xxx

As others have said Detatch, Detatch, Detatch! What he is doing, where he is working, what country he is in etc..Now, nothing to do with you, and let him know that.

It is up to him to organise his life, including work and leisure around DS and your agreed arrangements. It is no longer your job to organise your life around his.

It is predictable he starts this up at a point, when you are (literally) moving away from him, and he will not like it. But, too bad. He's made his choice.

I would copy ms pavs post and stick it next to ur phone ,its spot on!

As per MsPav's post, I would copy and paste:

"it is up to you to organise your life, including work and leisure around DS and our agreed arrangements. It is no longer my job to organise my life around yours."

Add a line similar to "DS is available for your call at X time, on X days, and can be picked up at X time on X day and returned at Y time." (as per whatever you agreement is) and I think you have a great response to every text/email or letter that twathead sends you from now until DS's 18th birthday!

Dee - he treats you as paid help, when you in fact neither an employee nor paid by him. My ex is the same re speaking to the kids - expects us/me to be on call the whole time and then often doesn't call when he says he will. My situation is complicated by ex living in another country and making veiled threats that he is going to go for custody of the kids and get them returned to his country so I have to be very careful not to look like I'm cutting him out. I absolutely don't want to cut him out at all but the way he calls/doesn't call the kids is not on and will be damaging to their self esteem as they get older - it's not in their best interests to be so inconsistent. Same for your ds. I've just sent ex an email saying: I will make the kids available for calls from x to y each evening. If you call outside of these times don't necessarily expect the phone line to be free or the kids to be available. They will be expecting your call so please make sure you do so. That way its firmly in his court and up to him to arrange or rearrange his schedule or get up in the middle of the fricking night if hes travelling to put the chikdren first (which inevitably he wont because theyre not and never have been his priority but saves us being dicked around by him to quite the same extent). Admittedly this was sent in the mother of all emails which also said im no longer prepared to communicate with him directly due to his aggression/unreasonableness so he cant actually argue the toss with me, and won't do it with my solicitor because he knows he can't intimidate and manipulate her.

In short, yes you have EVERY right to be pissed off with his email, on SO MANY levels. You have been sucked into his reality though where you cease to question if it's normal or not because there's no self doubt in him whatsoever. Honestly, his ego is colossal - like some massive black hole that you get sucked into, and its all about him. In whatever way you choose to do it, please tell him to fuck the fuck off, and when he gets there fuck off some more. Get out of his reality - he is no longer the centre of your world and you no longer have to orbit around him.

similarly with his crocodile tears. Theyre not for you or ds, they're for him. My ex does the same, but there's something so forced, so unnatural about it, as if he's read some kind of manual on human beings and thought 'oh, right, you're supposed to do this' and forced out a bit of blubbering. They live in bizarro world - as long as they say something which sounds nice, that gives them carte glance for their shitty behaviour. It really is very fucked up.

Thanks - I honestly thought I had lost my marbles and started feeling a bit at fault. Whilst he has been off around the world, he has not once said 'thanks for stepping in with DS on my nights/weekend days'. It seems like its just a given and he will take much like when we were together (though at least back then a 'thanks' would have been demonstrated with whatever perfume ex picked up from the airport shop on way home. Just had a flicker of realisation - when he was on business, he always bought me what he wanted to buy. If I ever asked for say some US choc or books it was 'no, why do you want that for?' or 'you wouldn't like it', or when he went to china and I wanted some tea or dainty crockery, it was again, 'no, you wont drink it/like it' and instead I got what he wanted to get me i.e. knock off Chanel and Dior handbags and fake Uggs........ Sorry, digressed a bit there).

MsPav/Patience/Major - very sobering and succinct message and one that I need to use on ex. He had seeped back in (slightly) with his woe is me tale of his decisions, so need to re-set and put him back in his box. Just so much easier said than done. Feel like i have wiped out efforts over last few months. I will draft up a very formal email capturing points suggested above and I do need to get that dedicated PAYG sim.

well - yes, have clicked that his tears are not for me or us rather or DS, but for himself and his poor me stance. Ditto his regrets speech as pointed out by Xales, Patience and others. I can bet that he was not pouring out his guts about his regrets to his new gf as she drove him to the airport with all that time to kill and yet, he can dump his load on me, on my doorstep during handover or via text when I am in my new home....I feel like he is just using me, which is how I feel about the whole relationship now. I was good enough as he worked his way up and then he reached where he is now and I just didn't 'fit' anymore, whereas 7 years younger fit blonde in the music industry who was footloose and fancy free without any demands on her time bar him, could suddenly slot right in (sorry, am in a grumpy old sods mood tonight). So sorry you are going through similar - its the pits.

So, funnily enough, he IS able to phone this evening despite saying that he would have problems doing so and first thing he comes out with is 'how are you both?' and then has a conversation with DS in as much as he is talking whilst DS does his usual phone dodge which refers to me heavily in the conversation. 'Have you been good for mummy?', 'Have you been playing lots with mummy?' 'What have you and mummy been up to?'. Felt very weirded out but more determined to re-strengethen detachment. I just feel that no matter how I say my piece he tries to work his way around it (e.g. why do I even need to know that his parents are visiting? And why should this figure as a discussion topic for us?). I think it is staring me in the face now that for whatever reason (and I accept I may be to blame here) that ex cant see that we are no longer entwined on certain points (in fact, only point should be DS now that house has gone). I can see that its a bit of control and it frightens me a bit as I alway seem to come back to this point of feeling useless. I feel exhausted, especially if I think this will keep on happening. I feel like a second class citizen and know that I should not let him get the better of me, but today, for the first time in a long time, it stung that he could write that and yet, he gives himself a get out of jail card. it would have taken all of 10 secs to tap out '7.30am please, Ex'......but he was obviously too busy and just forgot.

DS up with broken nights sleep, so hoping a good nights sleep will help clear my head a bit.

Give it time Dee. You were together and he had you treating him and gods gift for many years. You are slowly but surely realising this is not so.

Stop over thinking things such as the car insurance. He is a twat. He doesn't care about you. He does't give a shit that he was letting these docs come to your house apart from it was better and easier for him.

I don't mean the next as harsh as this may sound. It is none of your business. Stop giving it head space.

You need to accept that he really really is this much of an entitled wanker. He always was but had a good side towards you as well so it was less obvious.

The replies given above are good. You need a few that you can just cut and paste and repeat over and over until both of you are bored.

Every time he says he is sorry, he has regrets, he is upset etc you need a simple 'it is a shame you feel that way, it is nothing to do with me any more please do not bother me with it' reply.

You will get there

treating him as gods gift

Because i still loved my X i used to still get drawn into these "games".Negative communication was better than no communication at all iyswim .Alot was just habit ,i was communicating with my best friend of 16yrs ,so if i ever saw glimpses of the old X i could still talk with him.As time went on I had more self awareness/emotional intelligence ,call it what you like and I could see this was only because he was lonely and still felt connected to me ,me too,but I knew this wasnt healthy for me and I had to move on from our marriage.His abusive phonecalls /texts etc was still his attempt to have a connection and draw me in to a "game".Until we can both communicate like adults our conversations will always break down.My answer to this is to remain assertive re my wishes.
Google Drama triangles Dee and Winners triangles .Talk to your counsellor re this if u still see them.Recognising the "games"people play is a very powerful string to your bow.You do not have to stay in the game ,you can leave at anytime ,that is your choice.Some people thrive on the roles and dont want to leave the Drama.Him making you question yourself is the classic ploy of any bully ,You must be wrong /unreasonable cos he says so ,Ha what narc bullshit.
All the small detail in his life now is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS ,this is such a freeing realisation .When you start to think like this just repeat out loud "You know what thats NONE OF MY BUSINESS" and let it go .All that negative stuff you have in your head ,you can dump it now cos he is your X.
He could have 5 gfs in 5 countries and its still NOYB cos hes ur X.
He is free of you ,but this means you are free of him .....woo hoo!
He is now going to learn you are free and that you are single and completely independent of him .Its purely business now Dee and assertive self protection is the route I choose to take .My X made his choices ,so did yours and now the consequences ,will start to be felt (house move signals more loss of control).
We have indifference ,our hearts will heal ,we will move on with peace and integrity ,we dont need to have anger ,we are past the worst of the pain and we are stronger for it ,they chose not to change .

Yes, do not worry over car insurance - surely he has to give the insurers his address where the car is being kept...insurance fraud and all that.

So his new lady love is his airport chauffeuring him to the airport...hopefully she will be doing all his "support and administration", so he will stop bothering you about it.

Re xmas and new year, if last year was at his folks then this year is your familiy's turn.

Great advice above. top notch in fact.

I have been unsure about my anger towards him re my post exclaiming BASTARD but I felt he was reeling you in again and you still being vulnerable, heart just beginning to heal, it was a desperately heartless thing to do. Granted, a lot of what these people do is unconscious but that's not an excuse.

ime it is vital to not let them know your strategy when dealing with them. ie to not flag it up but to just do it, do the strategy, not say it. You may cut and paste the strategies above for yourself to remember but don't let him see them because he will work them, turn them on their head. these types are spectacularly skilled at twisting things (particularly authentic things) and you don't want to let him know your strategies to survive - far too precious for him to know or even get a glimpse of.

What really gets them in a flummux is when they don't know and can't manipulate what they don't know. Best to keep it hidden. It is hard not to say your piece but imo it is better to keep it to an absolute minimum, to keep it close to your chest, your crown jewels.

I used to long for us to be friends, for all the aggro to be over (it can get very very tiring and is literally endless, relentless, like a train) - I was so weary with it. he did me over again and again, usually by reeling me in as preparation. I had long stopped loving him but found the constant manipulations so wearing and painful, constantly making me feel shit about myself (was he right? did I have heinous faults, had i got the world/relationships entirely wrong?). Particularly as he went from strength to strength and all was well with his world (whereas mine wasn't quite so sparkling to put it mildly). But I was like his own personal colostomy bag re he wasn't prepared to deal with his own shit so projected it on to me: literally, his scapegoat.

Hence you feeling shit now (perhaps he's right? perhaps it really is my fault, at least in part, that things have gone the way they have?). I would say that we all have faults but it is not productive to examine your faults in relation to someone like this. These types, and what they do, are in a different league: they are not authentic or true. It is natural to examine ourselves when things go wrong but imo you can't afford that now and have to leave it, as hard as that is. Get on and don't look inward - you've enough practical things to be thinking about. If you weren't on the other side of the country i'd come and help you get those boxes sorted out Dee!

Keep yourself busy, try not to think too much (introspection), distract yourself until this crisis passes. Onward and upward my dear. Tap into that great strength and resolution you are famous for

'How are you both?' - fuckssake. The insincerity makes me want to hurl chunks from the bottom of my shoes upwards.

Is he still coming into ur new home ? I made mine stand outside,he knows his place now ,big fat capital X.

Hi - thanks for the lovely replies and words.

I think that I have come to the realisation that, despite trying to fake it a bit, interaction with ex at the moment is just too upsetting. I am guessing its all the emotions churning up about the house and although I am glad to be out of there now as it had become a trap and something for ex to hold over me (esp in the beginning when I didn't have a job), it is all a bit 'blah'. So any interaction is making me angry and yep, making me over-analyse every single sodding thing, which in turn pisses me off. There are worse things than the knowledge that she is driving his car and I cant help but feel (or hope) that a few weeks ago, I wouldnt have cared this much and would have just put it down to something else that didnt matter and was nothing to do with me....I guess, I am sort of grieving (again) for the life that was not meant to be.

Patience - no, he has not got past the front door mat, though he has tried to poke his head in and when he was dropping off DS last week (or week before) and did his crying thing, DS asked him to come into his (DS') house. I explained no and he said 'no, not this time, maybe next time'! Of course, couldn't say anything as DS was present, but he is no way stepping foot into our new home. Great mantra to go along with other gems - yep, its none of my business . Have heard of the triangles, but will do a bit more of a search on google. Thanks again - you are sounding so much stronger and clearly in a better place now, cant wait to join you.

Planet - yep, I mentioned this from very early on about DS' xmas, but am guessing he is now working out that that's not very convenient for him/his parents (they sure as hell wont be making the trip here). He does feel entitled to think, as he has done in the past, that as things are not convenient for him, he has licence to request/demand changes (e.g. his parents single visit this year and how he convinced me to give up my evening and one weekend day with DS so that his parents could spend the extra time with him as they dont get to see him much - like that was my fault that they did not choose to come down.......sucked it up at the time for DS' sake and also because I was still in the old house. Now need to stand up to him.

Well - I wanted to smash the phone to be honest. He is up to something - as in trying to come across all nice etc before he either makes some outlandish request (am thinking its something to do with Xmas or he wants to take DS away for a long period of time somewhere, though this is me over-thinking things again!) or makes a big bombshell announcement. His niceness, I have found, comes with a price. So, I am back aiming for neutral ground with no room for manipulation or mis-interpretation - easier to type out than do at the moment, though I do take heart and aim to learn from the messages here.

Xales - agree, it is none of my business, and no, its not harsh. I think he has tried to make it my business a bit and I have allowed him to do that a bit. This business trip has been a bit of a head-fuck to be honest (sorry for swearing!). The fact that he has gone off back to San Fran, whilst new gf has stayed here and he has managed to be (no doubt) be faithful to her is galling. It is also nearing the time last year when they met in the bar (he told me the date, Oct 15th, back when he was living in the house and decided to tell me the 'truth' after spinning his nonsense of someone working in London and living in Essex whom he had never slept with and who was here in the UK whilst he was in SF by himself!), so I have that imprinted on my mind a bit. But, as you, Patience and other have said 'its none of my business' so going to focus on that (but not focus on that if that makes sense ).

Springy - yes, to be honest, I feel well and truly reeled in and a bit used. Used as his bloody sounding board for him off-loading his emotional crap on me, before fleeing back into the safe and warm arms of new girlfriend - not in a I want him back way, but in terms of actually taking the time out to think about and listen to someone who sounded like their were in some sort of emotional turmoil. But, his emotional turmoil or whatever it is he is doing is none of my business (am learning). I am moving more back towards minimal interaction and contact with him. Snap - I do feel so tired and everytime I got a message or email from him in last two weeks, I would feel myself sink and just feel lethargic and a bit 'what now' (a sign to get busy and distract myself looking for a cheap as chips PAYG phone as advised). Now that I have had the obvious pointed out as above - all this has flared up in the last two weeks when funnily, DS and I closed the door on the old house and started out in our new home - I feel more empowered (not sure that is the right word I am looking for). Huge thanks.

Okay, so from tomorrow, I am going to make an effort to focus on myself and DS and our new life as I was doing (a bit) before this blip. In fact, will start now. Off to unpack a few boxes and do some self-indulgent reading (stacks of mags to work through that have been on the back burner with probation and then house move).

Thanks again. The advice is sterling and I intend to see it through this time. No reeling, no sympathy or shoulders to cry on (well, not for ex anyway).

dee34 you just have a heart and reading your last entry, you know i probably would have done the same thing! some men are really something ... stay strong my dear youre going to get through this, you really are and in time everythings going to fall into place ... we just dont know when that will happen ... but it will , sending you many many warm hugs

Hi Dee ,

Just caught up with your thread - I see this guy is still playing with you and has a sense of entitlement that in another century might have been acceptable, but it sure aint now. And you know that yourself, but its going to take you time to disentangle yourself emotionally and begin treating him as a rather spoilt, ignorant man who has some rights in your life, but only rights which relate to your DS - no more than that.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what somes out o his mouth - its his actions that count. He swings between being all assertive and manly (I'm a high flying executive and I take no prisoners) to being emotionally sensitive and repentive (I'm a decent guy and I didn't lie to, or walk out on my DW and DS for a bit of skirt I met in a bar - but I think I might just get away with it)

His story really hasn't shifted from Day One. He's still stringing you along. Everyone's advice here is spot on (as always) and you need to start getting strict with yourself so you can properly detatch. Full marks for not letting him across your threshold. Its as though he still needs you in many ways - your approval, your listening ear, your compassion for him that he took for granted for 11 years. He doesn't have any of the 'comfortable in your own skin' that you have with someone you have lived with for so long. He's in the middle of inventing his new 'man' persona. He's still being this 'cool dude' with the OW - hell of a strain for a guy who used to be so emotionally and financially controlled in his day to day life.

When he created this new life plan on the back of an envelope, it must have sounded so great. Bet he never thought he could pull it off. One of his calculations would be how he would deal with you. He has needed you to fulfil a role for him - the role he assigned to you when he told his story to the OW. Don't fall into his traps - you are far smarter than he is and you should use this to distance yourself from all his games. Don't become any more of his soap opera than you need to be.

HE chose to walk away from his DS. Yes, he's a Dad, but he does not have the same access as before - HIS choice. Please don't let him talk to you in the way he did re the phone calls. That must stop - he may not be able to get into your home, but he can get under your skin by sending a quick text.

Dee - get angry and get out of his reach. He doesn't deserve the time you are giving to him. You deserve respect. You are the mother of his child and the fact that he treats you in this way is a huge red flag. Detach... detach...

xx