Hello from a child-free girl...

[goldilockz]

Hi everyone,

I hope you don't mind me becoming a member of your forums, I must admit I'm rather nervous to be doing so and hope you'll have the patience to read my post through to the end. Briefly, I'm a 26 year old from Scotland who has no children and doesn't want any children (please don't let this put you off!) This was never an issue for me until my long-term boyfriend and I started discussing having children last year. He thinks he wants children while I have never experienced the elusive maternal urge or ticking of the biological clock. While I initially thought that adopting would be a reasonable compromise, I soon came to my senses and realised that a person should not be a compromise and that someone who doesn't want children shouldn't have them when her only reason for doing so would be to maintain her relationship. I discussed this with a few friends, some of whome knew where I was coming from, others who were a bit less accepting of the fact I'm unlikely to change my mind, saying that I've been given a womb for a reason, that my clock will start ticking etc. While I acknowledge that this is a possibility, I know that it's highly unlikely.

My reason for posting is that, since that 'chat' with my boyfriend which obviously caused us both a lot of distress as, lets face it, disagreeing about having children is a deal-breaker, I have become more and more aware of my 'child-free' status and ever more aware of the divisions between women who don't have or want children and women that do. This, admittedly, is something that concerns me. I don't like the idea of going through life judging other people because their decision differs from mine, nor do I want to be defensive and, while I have found websites such as thechildfreelife.com to be helpful, I also think they make one identify more with a child-free persona and being child-free is only a small part of who I am. My reasons for joining this forum is to integrate myself more with people who are not child-free, hopefully make a few friends and perhaps learn something from one another. I don't want to go through life being defensive about not having children or feel I have to justify my choice. I don't want to be labelled as being 'child-free' or the like, but I have noticed that this is something I identify myself with more and more and this upsets me. OK, enough of my waffling. I hope what I've said has made some sense and that I've not offended anyone in the process, as that is completely the opposite of why I'm here. I'm shaking as I write this because I'm very aware of the disparity between women who have children and those who don't and am envisaging a backlash! I hope that doesn't happen and I'm looking forward to your replies.

Goldi xx

Sorry I can't resist - I have to bingo you. DH and I never wanted children in our twenties. We completely agreed that this would always be the case and we even discussed how we would cope with any external pressure to change our minds and how we would manage our families' expectations.

I think I first started to doubt myself as I came up to 30 at about the same time DH and I got married. I hadn't changed my mind but that reassuring sense of certainty had slipped slightly. For the wedding we'd agreed that there would be absolutely no references to "may all their problems be little ones" or anything of that nature (we were managing expectations remember) and I started saying to DH was it really that important, they were only words etc.

I tried to get my sense of security back by finding ways to reinforce not wanting children. I poured over the shelves at Waterstones trying to find a self-help book that would stop me from doubting myself and I read Naomi Woolf's Misconceptions and some other dodgy "feminist" rubbish from the 70s, which helped a bit. I read childbirth horror stories and visited childfree websites, which helped a bit.

But ultimately I'd turned a corner and in the end I had to admit that to DH, who took the news very badly indeed and even now a couple of years later isn't really fully on board with the idea.

Now I'm not saying that you're definitely doing what I was doing and therefore you will change your mind because I have changed mine. As a matter of fact I haven't changed my mind completely, I'm still dithering about whether or not to have children and when.

But you are clearly very focused on the question of whether to have children for some reason and let's face it, unless your experience is very different to mine, us childfree girls hardly have to run a daily gauntlet of criticism and questionning of our decisions, do we? So if that's not the reason, what is?

All I'm saying is don't pigeonhole yourself at 26 - or at 32. The posters who have challenged you to put your money where your mouth is and be sterilised are just being facetious.

If you decide to hang around there's a thread in the Conception forum called Ditherers, where you'll find an endless discussion of "do I want children or don't I?" which you are welcome to join.

Hi guys,

I feel like I'm getting a bit of an education here. There seem to be so many people who, at my age, felt exactly the same as me but this has since changed. I do like the idea of 'having a little family' as one poster mentioned but I think the image I have in my mind is idealistic and things aren't often like that. You know, come home from work, have lovely dinner with husband and child, watch TV, have cuddles, play board games. Childbirth scares me so much but you're right, I don't have to think about this. I think I'd probably adopt if I were ever to have children, although I know that comes with complications of its own. But just the fact that I'm saying 'if' I were to have children is a big step for me.

AmandaCooper: your story is fascinating and has made me think that I'm completely jumping the gun by forming this identity about something that might change. Yes, having children just now isn't right for me but I don't know what will be right for me in my 30s. Maybe I'll want to shave my head, drive a bus, jump out a plane, get a degree in astro physics, have children. These all seem highly unlikely to me now but who knows? The past year I have bought a couple of 'CF' books, been on the forums more and more, identified myself as being 'CF' which, as some people have mentioned, hasn't allowed any room for manoeuvre and I've become quite defensive about being CF which probably indicates something doesn't quite sit with me about it and I'm fencing myself in. That's a difficult situation you're in with your DH just now, I really hope it all works out well. If you decided for definite you wanted children, would he be onboard with this? The Ditherers discussion you mentioned sounds preferable to the CF forums which would obviously prefer if you stayed CF. I'll have a look!

I wasn't broody before I had my children.
I was never broody until I'd had 3 and then it hit me and it was overwhelmingly awful, they were all past the baby stage and easy, I had no baby clothes or equipment anymore but I was desperate for another.
I did have another and I have never felt that way again. I don't really like other people's children especially small ones, I'd never held a baby till I had my own and I was never overly maternal even with mine.
I can fully understand why people do not want children but I love their company now they are older and they are IMO the best thing I have ever done.

That has made me sound like I hated my children until they were about 15

I'm a mother to four sons. To help dispel the 'opinion' that those with large families are 'brainless' I started my degree when my youngest was 6 months! I now have my BA and a job, admitedly I hate it and am looking for something new.

I am delighted you are stepping away from the CF forums. Live your life, have children or not as you decide. Not having children or becoming a parent is a personal choice and absolutely no business of anyone else.

I have a friend with no children and have never given it much thought tbh. She is my friend and I love her, even if she does baby her dog .

fruitshootsandheaves: You sound like you love your children a lot. Someone else said that there's a difference between wanting a family and wanting babies. I couldn't agree more. I've known a couple of people who love babies and are disappointed when they grow older so have 4 or 5 just to remain in the baby stage. There's something that I find a bit wrong about that. You seem like you cherish your children more as they get older.
Milngavie: Thank you, that's lovely of you. I've never personally thought that people with lots of children are brainless but I've heard that said before. I think some people remain childless to focus on their careers, education etc and maybe think that people who've been focused on having a family haven't gone so far in their education, I'm just guessing though. I tend to baby my dog too. I can't seem to bring myself to do a baby voice when I meet children, I just speak to them as I would an adult but when I talk to animals, it's a different story! I've felt better for not going on the CF forums for a few days. There are some lovely people over there but there's also a lot of negativity and stepping away from that has made me see that my decision isn't set in stone and that's relaxed me somewhat.

i'm just surprised that a 26 yr old, it seems intelligent woman actually has the views and thoughts you have. That every mother never had doubts, must have been super broody, knew that they definitely wanted children even at a young age. Did it never occur to you that many woman felt pretty much like you at your age but then went on to change their minds. I think there are women out there who know early on that motherhood isn't for them, whether you are one of them - only time will tell.

begonyabampot: Yeah I agree that my opinions are maybe be a bit categorical. I think it comes from having a lot of friends who've always wanted children and are very broody, something I couldn't identify with. My best friend growing up, who I spent a lot of time with, was always talking about babies. She was sexually active from a young age and I spent a long time trying to convince her that tricking her boyfriend so she could get pregnant was not a good idea, but she was desperate for a baby and would go to any lengths it seemed. I know that very few people are like that and that many didn't want children when they were younger, but I assumed the majority loved babies and were broody.

I know someone who refuses to use baby talk when talking to babies or children. She says they are little humans and should be treated as such . It's not unusual not to do the gooey baby voice so don't worry about it.

Glad to hear you're feeling better having had a few days free if the negativity.

If you're Glaswegian you'll be pronouncing my user name correctly .

Goldilockz - there is absolutely no need to "do a baby voice" when talking to babies or small children. A lot of people talk to them pretty much like they would to adults, with a few differences in vocabulary and intent, of course - but this is how children learn to speak with a wide range of vocabulary. I know that sometimes half of what I say will be going straight over my son's head - but I still say it because he will learn the words one day and the more I use them in context the quicker he'll learn them.

I think you have a lot of stererotyped nonsense in your head about how "parents" behave - and I do believe it will do you good to be here and see that parents come in a wide range of style, education, background, attitude etc. Where did you get your stereotyped ideas from? Did you have them before you joined that CF forum?

Milngavie: Yup, it's 'Mil-guy', one of my favourite places! I love that area and Bearsden.
Thumbwitch: No, I didn't have any stereotyped ideas about parents before I joined the CF forums and I kind of wish I could go back to that time. I had never given a second thought to parents, never viewed it as 'them' and 'me'. I'd never wanted children and my boyfriend was making references like 'if I have a daughter' or 'if I have sons'. We'd discussed getting married when we were older and want to be with each other very much so his implication was that we would have children. I told him I didn't want to have children and this sparked a few weeks of discussion over it. I spoke to a friend who basically told me that not having children isn't natural for women, and when I told my mum, she said she was disappointed. I felt a bit alone and a bit of a freak to be honest and then did a google search and found the CF forums which I joined and posted a thread looking for advice. People were generally very supportive and it was the first time me not wanting children had been seen as a positive thing. I spent some time on the forums and got a lot of (often one-sided) advice. I think since then, I've been more aware of being CF or whatever you want to call it and so have formed some stereotyped ideas about parents which just aren't helpful in any way.

I think that you have been unlucky so far in that the outside input you have had seems to be somewhat polarised and narrow in view. There are a lot of people who have troubles putting themselves in other people's shoes - or even just stepping outside of their "known world" and accepting that things might be different for other people - and some of them are on this forum, as are many highly empathic people, and people who have vast ranges of knowledge and experience.

I think you might enjoy yourself here, you know - it will certainly provide an "antidote" to the CF conditioning that you have been undergoing over the last few months.

But as I said, it is a vast range of different people - you will still find people on here that are like your friends from school who have a very strong baby-focus; and you will find people who don't have one at all. People who want babies but can't have them, people who wish they hadn't had theirs, people who (as Amanda said) are still dithering about having babies, people who are pregnant but don't want to be - the whole gamut of experience is on here.

And the one thing I do know about stereotypes is that a few people will always conform to them; but so many more won't.

Thanks thumbwitch: I think you're right about the conditioning. I have been unlucky but I also haven't really helped myself since being on the forums as I've kind of been expecting the 'bingoes'. I have also gained a kind of attentional bias where I'm hypersensitive to stories in magazines of people having babies. I was flicking through OK in the hairdressers the other day and there was story after story about celebrities getting pregnant. I don't know why this bothers me so much, perhaps I see it as indirect pressure or something. I know that's silly.
Anyway, yes, the forums seem to have a massive range of people and it's showing me that being a parent doesn't come with a fixed set of behaviours, which is quite enlightening!

Obviously I'm thick but can you explain this "Bingo" thing to me - I think I know what it refers to but also where if comes from?

You're not thick Josie. I had heard the term used before and had to look it up because its meaning isn't obvious and to be honest, it's a bit of a silly term. It basically refers to things people say to us time and time again, kind of like cliches and almost like numbers being called out at bingo so you collect them all. I don't think I'm explaining it very well. There are bingoes for a lot of things. The 'CF' bingoes are things like 'you'll regret it one day', 'who'll take care of you when you're old?' and 'you'll change your mind when you meet someone you love'. I imagine parents are 'bingoed' too, especially if they only have one child.

I had a brief and intense broody phase early 30's but no suitable man was around. Then in my late 30's, I met my ex, fell in love and was shocked at my massive, involuntary upset when he told ne he'd had a vasectomy.

Now, am mid 40's, spearated from ex and very, very glad I am CF. I am not maternal, not especially fond of children, and love doing all teh stuff that having children would make much harder- backpacking, living alone, etc.

I do have dogs though. And a cat.

Great story BellaMagnificat, and I'm so glad things have worked out well for you. I wonder how things would be different if your ex hadn't had a vasectomy. I definitely think travelling would be a lot harder with children. Do your dogs and cat get on? I'd love to have both but my dog just now goes crazy when anything resembling a cat is nearby!

Goldilockz - I wonder that too - thankfully the choice wasn't there!

My older dog is very, very fond of Bella; they rub noses and sniff each other all over and seem to miss each other when they are apart(ex has joint custody of the dogs, you see )Whereas my younger dog ignores her completely and pretends if he can't see her, she doesn't exist!

A lot depends on the characters of all those involved I think. Bella Magnificat has the upper paw, no question ;)

I guess some things in life happen for a reason. My ex had a son and didn't want any more. I thought that was the perfect situation for me, as he had a child so would be less likely to regret not having one but also, I didn't have to see him often because he lived mostly with his mum, but the time I did spend with him I enjoyed. Unfortunately my ex was a tosser so that wasn't the ideal situation after all!

Your pets sound adorable. My dog's a little meanie and barks at any animal that dares to set foot within his line of vision! I can't imagine he'd ever befriend a cat.