Hello from a child-free girl...

[goldilockz]

Hi everyone,

I hope you don't mind me becoming a member of your forums, I must admit I'm rather nervous to be doing so and hope you'll have the patience to read my post through to the end. Briefly, I'm a 26 year old from Scotland who has no children and doesn't want any children (please don't let this put you off!) This was never an issue for me until my long-term boyfriend and I started discussing having children last year. He thinks he wants children while I have never experienced the elusive maternal urge or ticking of the biological clock. While I initially thought that adopting would be a reasonable compromise, I soon came to my senses and realised that a person should not be a compromise and that someone who doesn't want children shouldn't have them when her only reason for doing so would be to maintain her relationship. I discussed this with a few friends, some of whome knew where I was coming from, others who were a bit less accepting of the fact I'm unlikely to change my mind, saying that I've been given a womb for a reason, that my clock will start ticking etc. While I acknowledge that this is a possibility, I know that it's highly unlikely.

My reason for posting is that, since that 'chat' with my boyfriend which obviously caused us both a lot of distress as, lets face it, disagreeing about having children is a deal-breaker, I have become more and more aware of my 'child-free' status and ever more aware of the divisions between women who don't have or want children and women that do. This, admittedly, is something that concerns me. I don't like the idea of going through life judging other people because their decision differs from mine, nor do I want to be defensive and, while I have found websites such as thechildfreelife.com to be helpful, I also think they make one identify more with a child-free persona and being child-free is only a small part of who I am. My reasons for joining this forum is to integrate myself more with people who are not child-free, hopefully make a few friends and perhaps learn something from one another. I don't want to go through life being defensive about not having children or feel I have to justify my choice. I don't want to be labelled as being 'child-free' or the like, but I have noticed that this is something I identify myself with more and more and this upsets me. OK, enough of my waffling. I hope what I've said has made some sense and that I've not offended anyone in the process, as that is completely the opposite of why I'm here. I'm shaking as I write this because I'm very aware of the disparity between women who have children and those who don't and am envisaging a backlash! I hope that doesn't happen and I'm looking forward to your replies.

Goldi xx

begonyabampot: I understand where you're coming from. My reaction to people that suggested I might change my mind was defensiveness because I've been told by a lot of people that 'oh you'll change your mind when you meet someone you love' or 'don't worry, you still have time to change your mind'. I jumped at the people who suggested I might change my mind which was wrong. My boyfriend knows that my mind isn't likely to change. I want dogs, lots of them, but I've never felt broody. It's something we've discussed time and time again and he knows the deal and, luckily, is very accepting. We both know that the onus lies with him now which is a little uneasy for both of us, but I'm putting no pressure on him to make a decision and don't want to influence him in any way at all. His decision has to be his own, not what I want.

I've never been broody in my life - and I have 2 children. Not everyone who has children got broody, or always wanted them - think when you are young EVERYTHING you think or view seems black and white - the older I got I found it all becomes more shades of grey when you realise life and people are more complicated. My views and beliefs have changed quite a bit over the years and will probably continue to change.

Before you jump down my throat - I'm not saying you'll change your mind.

I'm not going to jump down your throat. I'm more open to the fact I might change my mind but I don't see it as something that is likely to happen. If you've never been broody in your life, you must have had a desire to have children at some point since you have two? I have never experienced this. My friends go wild over babies, but I am easily bored by them. I just don't possess the same desire that my friends and sister have for children. This isn't something I view as a bad thing, it just makes me think that I'm unlikely to have children in the future.

not really, the first wasn't planned. I believe if people only had babies because they were broody, wanted, felt ready - then the human race would probably die out. Even people who generally have no interest of desire for children will most likely love their own unconditionally. Modern life with lots of choices, contraception, abortion, women forging their own careers and being independent has made having a baby a too thought out and analysed process when in the past it just happened.

Goldi, if you haven't seen it, you might find this current thread in chat quite interesting: What age were you when you really really felt like having a baby?.

There's a lot of variation on there, from people who seemed to have been broody since puberty, to plenty in their 30s, to some who say never (but may or may not have had a baby anyway).

Really? I was of the impression that most people who had children were broody, that's news to me! If I were to have children, of course I'd love them unconditionally but have no desire to have them and taking every precaution to make sure it doesn't happen! I agree that having a baby is a more thought out process than it once was but don't necessarily see that as a bad thing, unless you get obsessive about it. I see people on things like the Jeremy Kyle show who have multiple children, maybe 5 from 5 different partners and think they really should have put more thought into having those children and whether they were able to provide for them emotionally and financially.

begonya, goldilockz is being more considered than I would!

I just don't feel it's reasonable to advocate irreversible major surgery to anybody, let alone in a "Why don't you" sort of way. I was trying to think of an example but couldn't. Nose job, boob job, liposuction - hell, even vasectomy: they're all reversible, and much less invasive than female sterilisation. I wouldn't go "Why don't you get your tits done, then!" ... nor would you, from what I know of you.
Point made, I hope.

Thanks exexpat, I'll definitely be checking out that thread.

I think people on the Jeremy Kyle show should normally have put a lot more thought into just about every aspect of their lives (including appearing on the show), not just having children.

I agree wholeheartedly with that, but when you're bringing another person into the world, I think there's a whole other level of thought involved in that one.

Point Made? - not really, Grace. I stand by what i said going by the OP's opening posts. Unless you really think she doesn't know her own mind - she insists that she does - why risk an unwanted pregnancy and the possible trauma of abortion etc when she never, ever wants children. I wouldn't normally suggest sterilization for a 26 yr old but I don't want to suggest she is talking out her arse , so for the Op I'll make the exception - the turn around and tone in her posts is quite astounding.

begonyabampot: I'm a little hurt at this, I have to admit. I'm trying to be open-minded and have recognised that my posts were akin to a tantrum and I'm embarrassed about this. Yeah you have every right to be a bit shocked or peeved but I am watching what I say because I want to learn from posters on here and try and turn around my opinions. Sterilisation is a major thing, yes I've considered it but I'm also sensible enough to wait a while because as I said, there is no rush and I'm willing to give that glimmer of a possibility that I change my mind a chance.

OK, going to try a thread diversion here. Nobody who knows me will be surprised ...

goldilockz wrote on Thu 17-Feb-11 08:47:38
My mum was nothing like they way parents are assumed to be over on the CF forums and I know that a very very small minority are.
Interesting ...!

I was aware, during my (supposedly) fertile years, that I was ambivalent about becoming a parent because my P&M were so flawed. My nieces & nephews are all screwed up to varying degrees, so my fears were well-founded it seems. Due to my own experience and what I've had to learn, I'm one of those who wish people had to pass a psych test and do a course before having kids!! (Joke, but with some wishful thinking.)

The boards here have shown me what a healing process having children can be - overwhelmingly, here, mothers' instincts show them what their own parents lacked. It's heartening. But ... this revelation didn't occur to mys sisters. There's no saying it would have happened to me.

I've never visited this CF forum of yours and I shan't. What you said made me wonder, though, whether its members are very conflicted about parenthood, due to bad experiences of their own childhood?

OP - I get the feeling that you tell whatever audience is listening what they want to hear going by your postings on this site and the 'child free' one - or you have a split personality. I really doubt your feelings are hurt TBH.

And why so obsessed about this 'child free' status at 26yrs - it's hardly unusual for 26yr olds not to have children or have much interest in them.

AgeingGrace: There's been some debate about the link between an unhappy childhood and not wanting children and I admit that this is definitely a contributory factor in my own decision. One of my good friends who also doesn't want children had a very messy upbringing, I don't know if there's a cause/ effect relationship and I can't speak for other people. My mum was and is a great mum but my dad was...well I'll refrain from saying it because I don't know about the language policy here! I'm sure there are people who don't want children just because they don't want them and for no other reason, but I do think that since having children is 'the norm', people who don't have them generally have reasons, some of which may be linked to an unhappy childhood. I know that Oprah gave this as her reason.

begonyabampot: of course I'm hurt when I'm trying to make an effort here and someone says my posts have taken a miraculous turn. I don't have split personality, do you even know that that is? That's having two very distinct personas, not being two-faced as I think you're suggesting. Also, as I mentioned, I cancelled my membership on the CF forum and have no desire to go back. I think being 'caught out' and posting on that site was a shock to me and made me think WTF is going on? Why am I so bitter? It's not like me.
I'm not telling the audience what they want to hear but I'm a decent enough person to realise that I have to make amends and so I'm giving it my best shot. Clearly, that's not good enough for some people though but I don't really care. There's enough people who have contributed to this thread and given me food for thought that I'm past caring about the ones who accuse me of having some sort of intent.

My dad was a bastard. And a cunt. That should solve your language problem

It took me a verrrrrry long time to figure out that a mother who protects her sexual relationship over & above her childrens' safety and happiness is a bit of a shit mother really. That's the thing I've realised, which my sibs don't want to see.

I didn't know that about Oprah!

btw - it's perfectly okay to work your feelings out on this board. It's one of the things mumsnet does excellently :)
Of course you get flak. Nothing would be worth working out if you never got challenged, would it now?

It sounds like you've had a shitting time Grace but you also know your own mind, which is something to be proud of. You're right about mothers that do that. There's too many of them out there which is why I think having children should be a considered and thought-out process, although I don't know if those particular mothers would put a lot of thought into whether they should have children. Yeah, Oprah has said that her students are her children and that her upbringing is largely to blame for her not having children.

Thank you Grace, that means a lot. And yeah, I'm learning from those posters too.

I knew there must be a reason why I love Oprah! It's certainly not her diets ...

Yeah she's really inspirational. She also fell pregnant when she was 14 (I think that was the age) but miscarried or the baby was stillborn (not entirely sure of the details) so I think that was traumatic enough to stop her trying again. OK, bed time now!

I think Goldi is confused and looking for acceptance, it's something we all do to varying degrees in our twenties. I also think that MN can help you find your own feelings, even if only by the elimination of others,.

I didn't want to have children at all until my late 20s, and even then it was more because dh was broody than I. It was a bit weird going from feeling slightly anxious about every period to being exited when I didn't have one. In fact we made the decision to try for ds when I signed up for a trial for a contraceptive patch and one of the conditions was that you had to be OK about the possibility of getting pregnant. It was that discussion that started us down the path to parenthood.

I think Goldi may also be looking for ideas for some kind of study exercise. I'm not sure she is authentic but hey this is the internet and you don't need to be authentic.