Hello from a child-free girl...

[goldilockz]

Hi everyone,

I hope you don't mind me becoming a member of your forums, I must admit I'm rather nervous to be doing so and hope you'll have the patience to read my post through to the end. Briefly, I'm a 26 year old from Scotland who has no children and doesn't want any children (please don't let this put you off!) This was never an issue for me until my long-term boyfriend and I started discussing having children last year. He thinks he wants children while I have never experienced the elusive maternal urge or ticking of the biological clock. While I initially thought that adopting would be a reasonable compromise, I soon came to my senses and realised that a person should not be a compromise and that someone who doesn't want children shouldn't have them when her only reason for doing so would be to maintain her relationship. I discussed this with a few friends, some of whome knew where I was coming from, others who were a bit less accepting of the fact I'm unlikely to change my mind, saying that I've been given a womb for a reason, that my clock will start ticking etc. While I acknowledge that this is a possibility, I know that it's highly unlikely.

My reason for posting is that, since that 'chat' with my boyfriend which obviously caused us both a lot of distress as, lets face it, disagreeing about having children is a deal-breaker, I have become more and more aware of my 'child-free' status and ever more aware of the divisions between women who don't have or want children and women that do. This, admittedly, is something that concerns me. I don't like the idea of going through life judging other people because their decision differs from mine, nor do I want to be defensive and, while I have found websites such as thechildfreelife.com to be helpful, I also think they make one identify more with a child-free persona and being child-free is only a small part of who I am. My reasons for joining this forum is to integrate myself more with people who are not child-free, hopefully make a few friends and perhaps learn something from one another. I don't want to go through life being defensive about not having children or feel I have to justify my choice. I don't want to be labelled as being 'child-free' or the like, but I have noticed that this is something I identify myself with more and more and this upsets me. OK, enough of my waffling. I hope what I've said has made some sense and that I've not offended anyone in the process, as that is completely the opposite of why I'm here. I'm shaking as I write this because I'm very aware of the disparity between women who have children and those who don't and am envisaging a backlash! I hope that doesn't happen and I'm looking forward to your replies.

Goldi xx

Do these people on the CF forums forget that they too were once children!?!

I remember this guy tut-tutting at a toddler (mine!) who was having a tantrum whilst being strapped back into her buggy to be whisked away pronto. I stopped and said to him "You were a screaming toddler once!" and stormed out. The thing is, he was seated next to the children's book section, so WTF?!

I used to cringe when a snotty-faced child sat next to me on the Tube or bus, and I too also remember tut-tutting at tantruming toddlers. But then a friend of mine said "You were like that once upon a time and so was I," and something shifted in me.

Kid or no kid who cares . Think your sad if you judge the people in this way. Just because your a mum doesn't mean you will only get on with mums and same if your childless and think you will only get on with childless people. It is narrow minded. Your only segregating yourself with this type of attitude. Judge by the person.

Hi - I'm late to this party but my suggestion would be that, rather than starting a thread about this, a better strategy to get to know people with children might be to have a look on other Topics - Chat springs to mind, or Relationships, or even AIBU. You will note that much of the time we don't talk about children and there is a broad spectrum of opinion about other things

Oh Feminism is a good one too

JamieLeeCurtis

sending someone new to AIBU or Feminism?
There are definitions of kind, you know :)

Fair Point. Maybe not AIBU

Feminism is a great section.

There are plenty of boards on here where a child-free person could talk to and befriend mothers and realise that mothers don't stop beoming women once they procreate.

What a loads of inflammatory bollocks from the OP.
Even after childbirth we do have other things to talk about. We still have careers, still want to wear nice clothes and still have sex! Sometimes almost as good and as often as before we pushed watermelons out of the old chuff!

Hi everyone,

I have just read the most recent posts. I'm sad that some posters don't believe me. What can I say, you can't please all the people all the time. I've done my best to apologise but perhaps that'll never be enough for some, God knows why. I admit to my mistakes and am sorry that I may have offended some people in the process. If you don't believe a word of it, fair enough, but why would I continue posting if I didn't want to make amends and didn't feel genuinely sorry for my post?

I admit I have been influenced by the CF forums but have cancelled my membership and won't be posting there again. Betty Douglas: I don't know what 'inflammatory bollocks' you're referring to but if I've offended you, I'm sorry. I have never implied that all women who have children are not women or don't have much more in their lives than their children, although I know their children are a big part of it.
Seashore24: Thank you so much for sharing your story, a really interesting perspective.

The only reason I'm here, despite what my 'agenda' appeared to be before, is to learn more about people; people that are similar to me and people who lead very different lives. I find it sad when people say 'I don't care about you or your life' but whatever, that's up to you.

Can I just say as well, that reading back at some of the posts, it strikes me that many of the people on the CF forums are wrong about parents. The majority of you guys seem to be really nice, forgiving and accepting people and I'm pleased I came back.

crje: I disagree that people who don't have children and people with children (even 4+ children) can't be friends. I don't want to live my life being friends with just childless people, not much variety in that and I do think that having children in your life, even if you don't have children of your own, is a really positive thing. We might not be able to understand each other's choices but I personally want to gain an understanding. I have a friend who wants 5 children. She doesn't understand me at all and I don't understand her much either, but we have a laugh about our differences and hopefully will remain friends regardless of how many children we each have.

I'm 36, my closest and oldest friend is CF. My dd adores her because she brings her ribbon, drives a fast car and is always very interested in listneing dd talk endlessly. The boys just love her car!

'you can't please all the people all the time'

Why would you want to be pleasing people? This is an internet forum. Everybody has different views. Most opinions can be stated without hostility and nastiness (except for the opinions that are hostile and nasty), and the mixture of people on MN is great.

I have no desire to be pleased by your posts goldilockz, I read MN because there is much that interests me here, to learn from other's experience,occasionally to ask advice, and very often for the wonderful humour around the boards.

Ok, forgive me earwicga, I'm new to this forum and am justing learning the ropes. When I said that, I was responding to a couple of people who'd said they didn't believe me or thought what I was saying was BS which I found a bit of a shame. I've been on other forums before (mainly to do with healthy eating) where a few of us have got together and had a coffee, so I wasn't aware how 'intimate' mumsnet was but I'm guessing that because there are so many members, it's a little more anonymous and people are more forthcoming with their opinions.

goldilockz..I have one DS but also have a fab career and lots of CF friends. I also had a lot of friends who had children whilst I was heavily involved in academia and my career..I have maintained very strong friendships with those people. There really isnt an issue here. I respect women who dont want children as much as I respect those that do.

Seeminglyso: I'm beginning to learn that this is a non-issue. I just wanted to say though that while I respect women who have children and have jobs because having one or the other is hard enough, I also have admiration for stay at home mums.

goldilockz - here's the deal about friendships post baby (theirs). you're freindships arn't doomed necessarily but they will change a bit and you might need to be patient. mine went something like this; early pregnancy - i went out a lot but yanked on about being pregnant quite a bit. mid pregnancydidn't care about going out - too busy trying to finish degree and getting a bit worn out. late pregnancy DESP to go out but too tired and fat :-(. post birth you get inundated with visitors for a few weeks plus having a nb is hugely tiring and work intensive. after this period it can all geting a bit isolating esp if the dh/p has gone back to work - i needed company ALOT then but i had NOTHING to say that wasn't about the baby, not because i was a baby bore as such its just that i had no exposure to anything else. when dd was 6 months i started to catch up with the rest of the world and after 12 months i was back to normal and i go out a reasonable amount and have a good social life with and without dd.

most of my friendships have stayed exactly the same but i appreciate them more. a few fell by the wayside but actually that started when i got married 0 they were the mates that i went out with with a view to chasing men - you get the idea. a married woman is no good for that, let alone a mother! i take it on the chin - all friendships serve a purpose to some degree.

i'm sure most of your friendships will survive when/if they have kids - you just have to be a tiny bit adaptable :-)

Goldilockz, I was referring to your posting on here then your susequent post over there. It quite simply just seemed inflammatory.
The other part of my post was trying to say, if you are genuine then why not come over and talk about style or sex or holidays or chickens or somesuch! We don't just talk about our kids. In fact, we're quite imfamous for talking about all sorts of other bollocks interesting things.

I hate the term CF. Cystic Fibrosis?

'I respect women who have children and have jobs because having one or the other is hard enough, I also have admiration for stay at home mums.'

SAHM is also a job. Parents have more than one job.

sungirltan: It's good to hear things from a mum's perspective. I have heard that things calm down after about 6 months and you start to regain contact with the world. I think if people are more aware of that, they won't expect so much from their friends who've just had children and might learn to hang in there because it's not going to be forever. This makes me feel less like I'm going to lose all my friends in the future since the majority of them want children, some of them in the next couple of years.

BettyDouglas: Yes, I agree, it was inflammatory and I'm not proud of it. It won't happen again though. Talking about sex, style and chickens sounds really good, although I don't know if I'll have much to say about the latter except for they taste good smothered in BBQ sauce. I've been browsing the books forums and have added a few books to my amazon wishlist. Feel a bit bashful to be talking about sex on a forum but I'm sure that'll soon wear off!

earwicga: I guess you're right but it's different to having, say 2 part-time jobs since I'm guessing the work never really ends and you don't get many holidays. It's not the kind of job you can forget after a hard day and slob on the sofa til the morning.

JamieLeeCurtis: I also don't like the term CF. I'm using it here for shorthand for 'people who don't have children'.

Op - why don't you get sterilized, people will then take your view on no children more seriously - not that anyone really cares (apart for your BF or perhaps parents). Also if it's a deal breaker in your relationship, why not just split now and both of you can move on to people who can give you what you want. Why waste each others time?

why don't you get sterilized - that's the sort of thing I meant :( People actually said that to me! Not people expecially close to me, either - folk who chose to make a shedload of assumptions based on what they saw of my life, and to share their judgement on me. All of them women, I should add.

If goldilockz wishes to re-examine her feelings about her fertility, why on earth shouldn't she do it on a parenting site? There have been a lot of positive posts, and a lot of thought-provoking ones, on this thread. But there's also been a fair amount of knee-jerking. I'm surprised at the number of respondents who seem not to have seen that.

Don't get your point Grace. Op said several times she doesn't want or will ever want children - got really shitty when some folk suggested (nicely) that she was very young and might feel different one day. She made it sound that the worst thing that could happen would be to have a baby - so to avoid any unwanted accidents and worries - why not get sterilized - it seems to be what she wants? Then her boyfriend will know the score that children are a no go and can make a decision whether he can live with that.

AgeingGrace: Thank you. I have thought all the things you mentioned. I have decided to get sterilised by the time I'm 32. I don't feel the need to rush into anything. There is also no way in hell my DP and I would split up just now. While I feel my mind is made up, he is currently 50/50. He's only 25 and is in no hurry to make up his mind. There would be absolutely no need to break off a loving relationship for something that might or might not happen. We are certainly not wasting each others time. If he was sure he wanted children then that would be a different matter. If he does in the future and I don't then obviously, we'd go our separate ways, but for now, we're happy together and both have plenty of time to explore our options.
AgingGrace: I'm sorry that you have been at the receiving end of not-so-pleasant comments. I don't know why they occur, after all, I'd never say to someone 'what if you regret having children' in the same way I've been asked what if I regret not having children. I think not having kids is something a lot of parents are uneasy with and I guess that's understandable to an extent, but what I don't like is the people who think that what is right for them must also be right for you. I'm sticking around here because the positive posts have really made my day and have given me something to think about.