Hello from a child-free girl...

[goldilockz]

Hi everyone,

I hope you don't mind me becoming a member of your forums, I must admit I'm rather nervous to be doing so and hope you'll have the patience to read my post through to the end. Briefly, I'm a 26 year old from Scotland who has no children and doesn't want any children (please don't let this put you off!) This was never an issue for me until my long-term boyfriend and I started discussing having children last year. He thinks he wants children while I have never experienced the elusive maternal urge or ticking of the biological clock. While I initially thought that adopting would be a reasonable compromise, I soon came to my senses and realised that a person should not be a compromise and that someone who doesn't want children shouldn't have them when her only reason for doing so would be to maintain her relationship. I discussed this with a few friends, some of whome knew where I was coming from, others who were a bit less accepting of the fact I'm unlikely to change my mind, saying that I've been given a womb for a reason, that my clock will start ticking etc. While I acknowledge that this is a possibility, I know that it's highly unlikely.

My reason for posting is that, since that 'chat' with my boyfriend which obviously caused us both a lot of distress as, lets face it, disagreeing about having children is a deal-breaker, I have become more and more aware of my 'child-free' status and ever more aware of the divisions between women who don't have or want children and women that do. This, admittedly, is something that concerns me. I don't like the idea of going through life judging other people because their decision differs from mine, nor do I want to be defensive and, while I have found websites such as thechildfreelife.com to be helpful, I also think they make one identify more with a child-free persona and being child-free is only a small part of who I am. My reasons for joining this forum is to integrate myself more with people who are not child-free, hopefully make a few friends and perhaps learn something from one another. I don't want to go through life being defensive about not having children or feel I have to justify my choice. I don't want to be labelled as being 'child-free' or the like, but I have noticed that this is something I identify myself with more and more and this upsets me. OK, enough of my waffling. I hope what I've said has made some sense and that I've not offended anyone in the process, as that is completely the opposite of why I'm here. I'm shaking as I write this because I'm very aware of the disparity between women who have children and those who don't and am envisaging a backlash! I hope that doesn't happen and I'm looking forward to your replies.

Goldi xx

Haha!! Well, each to their own I guess! It's a strange way to tell if you're in love though. Perhaps it just smelled, eh, good because the guy had eaten lots of pineapple. Anyway, a change in subject is in order I think!

Hi Goldi, I really admire anyone for coming back and facing the music, so to speak!!!!! As I said earlier, whether or not someone chooses to have children is a personal decision and has nothing to do with anyone else, which is why I found your OP hostile and I looked on the CF website and found it really strange!!!!. Also, because you are still young, I suppose many of us, having been there, think just wait and see where life takes you before putting yourself in a box.

Anyway, welcome again, there are many different areas of MN, loads of discussions and friendly people here, so def stick around

Bloody hell OP. It's great that you're having this epiphiny and everything; and well done for having the balls to come back here and apologise, but for god's sake don't go making any permanent life decisions about whether to adopt, have children or be streilised when you're this easily malleable.

You've only been on here 5 minutes and already you're renouncing beliefs you've held onto strongly for over a year (which is a positive thing I think, but still...). You strike me as very naive and impressionable. It's just as well you're here because there are lots of very sensible and wise people on these boards who will be a positive influences and encourage you to discover what you think for yourself.

Goldilockz - well done for coming back.

I agree that you shouldn't label yourself as CF as that is only a small part of who you are. Similarly, I think one of the initial sources of friction on this thread is that you only identified people on Mumsnet as parents (understandable given the name of the site ).
I am a successful women, with postgrad and professional qualifications who works in the City earning a 6 figure salary; likes reading; has travelled to every continent bar Antartica (still working on that);enjoys theatre and cinema; who is also the mother of 2 sons.

Have a nose around Mumsnet you will find threads on everything from Feminism to chicken keeping to Friday night bum-sex.

One thing to remember is that Mumsnet is not a homogeneous forum there are a wide range of opinions from men and women some of whom happen to be parents.

One piece of advice - if you don't like confrontation then watch out for the Am I Being Unreasonable Section as that can really be a bunfight.

Oh and bear in mind that compared to your CF forum (which I had a quick nose at ) we are far more foul mouthed.

But I have got some really great advice from this site and sometimes laughed so much I have cried.

Hey Goldilocks - you're good people. Stick around, you'll fit in nicely. But madonna's right, as well; lovely as it is to our egos to feel that we have converted you to The Way Of The Right And The Good, you have turned around very fast!

Sit with yourself for a while, I think. Get to know us, because we're amazing and wonderful (do we have a sarcasm emoticon?) but don't make life decisions based on whether we're funnier or more balanced than your other internet forums.

Goldilockz - apologies have only just finished reading the thread. You sound like a considerate person and am sure you will maintain close friendships if and when your friends have children. I am 27 and gave two children and none of my school or uni friends have children. I desperately want to keep in touch with all of them and many of them have been fab and visited me, been to stay, I've been to stay with them etc. The ones I've lost touch with I'm really sad about, and it's happened because they can't be bothered (And I do try to keep boring baby talk to a v v v low level). It's just made me value the ones who've shown themselves to be true friends even more. Stick around, mumsnet is a diverse and interesting place with lots of intelligent discussions to be had.

Hi guys,

I'm rushing out the door so can only reply briefly just now but I agree with you MadonnaWhore. The thing is, I was never easy with those beliefs that I've held for the past year or so. I am very naive and impressionable, that's true, which is why I think I adopted those beliefs as my own without actually thinking about whether they resonated with me, which they don't. I'm not saying that I'm ready to have children or will ever have children but I definitely want to open my mind and stop thinking so negatively about those who do. In all honesty, I have far more in common with my friends who want to have children than the people on the CF forum who say they're child haters, which I will never be. I don't think I've 'turned around very fast' but I know when something isn't right for me and for a long time I've had a niggling feeling that the negativity on the CF forums was getting me down, so much so that I limited my postings to one day a week at one point. I think I need to regain my sense of humour and stop taking things so seriously and so far, it seems as if this forum will aid me in doing that (mainly thanks to EngelbertFustianMcSlinkydog's most recent post).

That should say 'have two children' not 'gave'

I am very impressed!!

Me too.

I would like to sympathise with Goldilockz to a degree. In my early twenties I thought that I would want children later in life and then when my sister started having her kids it really put me off. I love my nieces and nephews to bits, but after having helped my sister with all the nappy-changing, bottle-feeding, winding and bathing of her babies, I knew that this was not for me. On meeting my DH it was a real relief to find out that he didn't want kids now or ever. We have had a wonderful 18 years child-free and have travelled the world, have no mortgage and a comfortable lifestyle. What does depress me is when people ask if I have children and I say no, they automatically give me that 'Sympathetic Look' as if to say 'Ahh, couldn't you have them? Is there something wrong with you or your husband?' I always feel that I have to immediately justify their question by saying 'I like children but just never wanted them'. I have found over the years that as my single friends have married and have had kids, that I have drifted away from them. Most of my close friends now just happen to be child-free and I guess I have just sub-consciously been magnetised towards them. I really like having friends that do have kids, but the one thing that totally puts me off are women who do nothing but talk about their "Little Darlings" the whole time, as though they have no life of their own. I have a friend with a two-year old who has done this since her son's birth and I am finding my contact with her is lessening, as when I instegate conversation about her, it totally gets side-tracked onto her little boy and what he has been up to. I do like children and I am a volunteer in the scouting world working with children once a week. That is enoough child interaction for me and I love being able to hand the kids back to their parents at the end of the evening and go home to a quiet household. I am 47 now and certainly have never had the 'maternal instinct' thing. I like mumsnet because it covers a broad perspective of life and topics and I don't think that because you have chosen not to have children that you don't have an opinion on childcare or child-related topics. No mum was ever given a manual at the birth of their baby so it all comes from instinct. I have been told by many mums that I would have made a wonderful mother because I am a natural with holding babies and communicating with them. I guess it is just instictual but I have no regrets whatsoever and I don't think Goldilockz should be pressurised into thinking she will change her mind in later life, becuase if is not want she wants now, then she may go through life never wanting it, which is absolutely fine IMHO.

I'm not sure you can pressurize someone into thinking they may change their mind.

Sorry Goldi, I clicked what you meant after posting, that makes more sense!

Haven't got time to read this through yet but I'm glad Goldilockz came back to discuss it properly. We're lovely here really y'know :)

I can feel the luuuurrrrve on this site.

I might be cynical but I don't believe a word of it.

I think I get it. You don't want children so have gravitated to this CF site - but deep down you're aware it's encouraging you to do more than not have children yourself, but to opt out of the whole issue of friends with families, and to feel active contempt towards them. On your site, there is an active and encouraged "gap" between people with and without children.

So you've come here, imagining that if there's a gap in one direction, there's bound to be a gap in the other, right? But to be honest, we've all got slightly blank faces here. Because we don't see it that way.

If I were you, I would leave both MN (although feel free to stay if you like! As others have said, there are plenty of non-Mums and even non-parents on here) and I would definitely give the CF site a break. Try to see people not as "childed" and "childless" but as people. Who either are in the company of shorter, snottier people, or not.

When I was 26 I didn't know anyone with children so I really don't think you need to attach a label to yourself at that age. Or any age, even - you know what you want, who cares what others think. If you are facing negativity every day as a result I could see why you might want to join a community of like-minded folk, but honestly I can't imagine many people caring.

When I was your age my need for a child had just switched on (I am well aware this doesn't happen for many people, for me it just did) and so I was very sensitive in regards to talking to people with and without children. I had to ttc for a long time for my son and used to be somewhat paranoid as to whether people were judging me for being childless - but you know what, in hindsight I'm pretty sure no one was. Maybe an old relative or two but then I probably do a lot of things they don't approve of, so again - who cares?

If you spend too long putting energy into thinking about childfree instead of just being childfree and getting on with all the bits of the rest of your life, you'll waste time in anger and bitterness. I speak from experience though from a different angle (was very bitter in my ttc days).

Have an honest chat with your partner too. Is he holding out any lingering hope that you might change your mind?

I have 2 children (3 years and 9 months) and can see why someone would not want any. I love mine to bits and may even have a 3rd one day but I dont think anyone should under estimate how tiring/draining/expensive and life altering it is.

I have 2 friends who dont want any children, they are both late 30s so their decisions are more "final" perhaps than yours. I dont judge them for it. I wonder whether they will regret it in later years. for me, old age would be lonely without families but they value their holidays/travel/material posessions/time together and I respect and even understand that.

I would not swap my children for all the money in the world, but can seriously see why someone else may never want to do this I am telling myself it gets easier soon. I think I am at the toughest bit now, I hope!

No issue with your choice,
am happy to live and let live.

As a very busy mom of 4 I would just struggle to find a common ground with you.

I don't think id have any interest in hearing about your life and am sure mine wouldn't be of any interest to you either.

Being a mother has a knock on effect to all areas of your life,so is being childless,its not something that can be ignored.

Think we will happily co-exist,work collegues ect,but not friends.

By all means stay on here.

Don't believe there's lots of men and women on here, who'll be helpful and nice.

There are some, of both genders, who will be nice; slightly more who'll be, let's say, judgmental on you for not being/wanting to be a mum [whether that be bloke or child free :-)]; but most of the posters I've encountered are just people.

Who will chat, who have differing views, and most of whom are interesting.

I've been accused - so far - of being a troll, not being a bloke, not having children, and some far worse things. They all pass, and people move on.

Don't poke people with stick, and don't post on threads about other threads would be the only things I'd add.

You may find there are people you're happier ignoring; there's no law that says you have to talk to anyone

Try not to see people as either "with children" or "child-free" - I would guess that most of the parents on this site would define themselves by many more criteria than just "children". Our identities are much more complex and rich than that, thank goodness.

FWIW, I've never been broody and would have happily gone through life (I hope) without children. But I met DH at 36 and I could see how great he was with kids and I thought, "What the hell!" I gave birth to DD when I was 38 and she had enriched my life in ways I could never have imagined before I had her.

But I am still neither maternal nor broody and I am stopping at one child.

All other aspects of my life still continue to define me: my career, my marriage, my relationships/friendships, travel, my interests.

I am a mother... and so much more.

She has enriched my life...

OMG. You are so young. When I was 26, I 'knew' I would 'never' want children.

Hahahahaha...

You may be back in 10 years...'we agreed we wouldn't have children...but I've changed my mind...do I stay with him and lose my chance...or leave him and risk everything for a chance at motherhood...?'

I really don't mean to belittle you, I think many of us have heard or said what you've said, many times before...