Hello from a child-free girl...

[goldilockz]

Hi everyone,

I hope you don't mind me becoming a member of your forums, I must admit I'm rather nervous to be doing so and hope you'll have the patience to read my post through to the end. Briefly, I'm a 26 year old from Scotland who has no children and doesn't want any children (please don't let this put you off!) This was never an issue for me until my long-term boyfriend and I started discussing having children last year. He thinks he wants children while I have never experienced the elusive maternal urge or ticking of the biological clock. While I initially thought that adopting would be a reasonable compromise, I soon came to my senses and realised that a person should not be a compromise and that someone who doesn't want children shouldn't have them when her only reason for doing so would be to maintain her relationship. I discussed this with a few friends, some of whome knew where I was coming from, others who were a bit less accepting of the fact I'm unlikely to change my mind, saying that I've been given a womb for a reason, that my clock will start ticking etc. While I acknowledge that this is a possibility, I know that it's highly unlikely.

My reason for posting is that, since that 'chat' with my boyfriend which obviously caused us both a lot of distress as, lets face it, disagreeing about having children is a deal-breaker, I have become more and more aware of my 'child-free' status and ever more aware of the divisions between women who don't have or want children and women that do. This, admittedly, is something that concerns me. I don't like the idea of going through life judging other people because their decision differs from mine, nor do I want to be defensive and, while I have found websites such as thechildfreelife.com to be helpful, I also think they make one identify more with a child-free persona and being child-free is only a small part of who I am. My reasons for joining this forum is to integrate myself more with people who are not child-free, hopefully make a few friends and perhaps learn something from one another. I don't want to go through life being defensive about not having children or feel I have to justify my choice. I don't want to be labelled as being 'child-free' or the like, but I have noticed that this is something I identify myself with more and more and this upsets me. OK, enough of my waffling. I hope what I've said has made some sense and that I've not offended anyone in the process, as that is completely the opposite of why I'm here. I'm shaking as I write this because I'm very aware of the disparity between women who have children and those who don't and am envisaging a backlash! I hope that doesn't happen and I'm looking forward to your replies.

Goldi xx

NinkyNonker: I don't have any friends who are parents and so admittedly, I've become wrapped up in the CF community. My real-life friends want children but I've been told that as soon as they have them, our friendship will be a thing of the past. I don't want to believe this anymore. I do respect my mum and I often forget about her in all my stereotyped views of parents. My mum was nothing like they way parents are assumed to be over on the CF forums and I know that a very very small minority are.

ThePosieParker: Perhaps you're right, who knows. This has definitely been a turning point for me and I feel both a sense of relief and a sense of shame over my naivety. I'm hoping that relaxing will, like you suggest, allow my own feelings to come through, rather than being so heavily influenced by others.

Hey Goldilockz - baptism of fire survived - welcome to Mumsnet!

Hope that you continue to post, there's a lot of fun to be had on this forum. I would suggest you avoid AIBU to most newbies - but you've already had your "flaming" so you'll be fine.
Pile in!

and have some .

Welcome.......you've done no worse than many of us on our first trip to MN.....

Typically British, we're nice, knock someone down and then allow you to come inside.....I think in other countries they call that bullying.

What's your Phd in?

My clock starting ticking very very very late. Let's hope it is not too late for number 2.

At 26 I did not want children. I am so glad to be a mother now. However, even when I did not think about children, I really would not want any part of something like childfree it is hideous and sexist to put down mothers.

Ofcourse you don't need children to be happy. I was happy before and I am happy now.

Like others, I would never ever go back to life without children.

started not starting!

goldilockz, I know lots of people in my life who do not have children. The majority of the cases are not through choice, which is very sad. Some didn't meet their partners until it was too late and others still haven't met the right partner but hope that they will and be able to have children.

But I work with two ladies in my current team at work who made the choice not to have children. Both of these ladies are self-confessed 'child-haters'. Now, I'm sure they didn't mean it literally, but this is one of the very first things that they said to me when I joined their team a year ago, when returning from maternity leave , they laughed as they said it but so...

Now I've got to know them, one is very much sure of the decision she's made (she's in her early 40s now), but the other who is in her 50s appears to be particularly bitter and will always change the subject if ever the welfare of my daughter (as in colleagues generally asking how she's getting on and asking to see pictures) is raised. I do wonder if she feels that she's made a mistake - she lives on her own with her two cats because like someone else mentioned, her previous partners all wanted children. I have no doubt that she will meet someone one day, but she does come across as very lonely at times. Of course this is only my (and a few other colleagues - one of which is the one previously mentioned who also chose not to have children) perception.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that you may well never change your mind about having children and that is obviously your choice, but the most important thing is to be comfortable with your decision and never have any regrets. Be totally comfortable with your reasons so that when you are in your 40s/50s, you will be at peace knowing the good reasons that you made your decision.

Sorry about waffling and I hope that things sort themselves out one way or another with your DP.

Thanks guys! It's good to be here. I did consider changing my username so you'd get a better first impression of me, but perhaps good first impressions are rare. I'm not quite at the PhD stage but my masters is in clinical psychology (I know, ironic, right?!)
Popcrackle: thanks for sharing your story with me. I agree that it's sexist to put down mothers. I'm reading a book about post-natal depression and I do have a kind of newfound respect for what mothers go through.

It sounds like your main issue is some shitty friends Goldi, fancy saying your friendship will be over when they have children! Find some better friends, and enjoy life...with or without children!

I am the only "mum" in my social group, I say social group because they are the ones I go out and party with lol, I have a few "Mum" friends too but we tend to do things with the kids for obvious reasons.

I'm in my late 30's as are my CF friends, they dont want to change their lifestyle so dont have kids, it's fine by me although a couple of the male friends in the group are spending more and more time with my sons, sort of borrowing them lol, I think one of the couples may regret being CF in years to come.

What does make me laugh is while we are on CF holidays together they say things like this will all change if we have kids, I have to put my hand up and say "I've got two remember, happily spending a week with Granny so I can be a care free adult again".

Most parents are a bit manic at first but I know more like me who still have CF fun than those who become Mums before all else

MaybeTomorrow: The idea of hating children is quite alien and a little upsetting to me to be honest. Some children are a bit bratty, true, but I could never hate a child. I'd much rather be the kind of person who is quietly satisfied with her choice rather than your colleague who changes the subject whenever children crop up. Perhaps this is a sore spot for her. I actually have a friend who, although she wants children, doesn't actually like them. She complains about children a lot and every time she does, I cringe. I don't want to be like that and I think spending time with children makes life feel a little brighter and less serious. I suppose I am still young and to have made a definite decision at this age is a bit constricting.

NinkyNonker: It's the people on CF forums who say my friendships will change when they have kids. My friends themselves are terrific and say that I'll be the 'cool aunt' and that I won't see them any less.

TangledScotland: You sound like you have a great group of friends and that having kids hasn't changed things between you. This really cheered me up. I've been told that my friends will no longer be able to identify with me when they have kids so I'm glad you dispelled this myth!

I think generally it's people without children that find the alteration in friends becoming parents that's more difficult to get to grips with. Friday night drinks are not the focus of the week and the take-an-hour-to-leave-the-house stuff is not really understandable unless you've seen it first hand. I've not come across any parents that purposely drop their non parent friends.....

WE're all people and throughout our lives we change our focus, when you're deeply consumed with your Phd you may find friends who are working have no idea how much work you have to do.

With regards to the losing friends when they have children. This has happened to me once, when a childfree friend decided not to be friends with me, not the other way round because presumably, I couldn't see them as much. Just bear in mind when the time comes (maybe not for 10 years!)the first few months of having a child are hectic and anxious times. If they can't talk to you on the phone or come to the pub after work, or have to run home because the baby won't settle then that time will pass. Do something else and just keep in touch. Once everything has settled down into a routine, they will be able to leave their children asleep and come down the pub with you or out to dinner as they always did! And remember by the time they have kids, you might be older as well, and sitting down to a nice meal and getting home at 11pm might be just what you fancy too- kids or no kids!

Just read that back- obviously not leave the kids asleep alone- I take it in turns with DH, or get my mum up or arrange babysitting swaps with other mummy friends.

I totally agree with the poster who said at what age do the stop being "fuck trophies" or "crotch fruit" or other such hideous terms and become a human being? Do people who use those phrases think they were created by immaculate conception?

Goldilockz - it is certainly the case that you may know or meet some friends who become baby-obsessed when they have children. These people may cease to be friends after a while, either because you can no longer stand to hear every tiny detail of their offspring's progression, or because they decide you aren't sufficiently enraptured by their infant prodigy. However - the majority of people do NOT turn into this stereotype of obsessive Precious First Born parent - so the chances of your friends having a complete personality transplant is quite low, even if they do become parents.

You'll be fine so long as you are accepting of their choices and circumstances.

washnogo....those delightful terms were from a poster who has children, not someone CF!!

EngelbertFustianMcSlinkydog: I love that book idea! I've worked with drug addicts and I have no doubt that cocaine bores are worse. It's good that parents recognise baby bores too. I had an email from my cousin going into great detail about the poo her baby son did in the bath. I didn't quite know how to respond.
I guess it looks like it tends to be childfree people who break off friendships. That seems a bit harsh to be honest. I wouldn't chuck away a lasting friendship just because someone is a little too preoccupied to go out on the town. I know that people's priorities change and no doubt, when my friends start having children, I'll be ready to hang up my stilletos too!

Actually, the 'crotch fruit' term was from the CF forum (apparently -- idk, I haven't been there), and the 'fuck-trophy' term was from someone who does not have children.

washngo: I agree with this too. I think those terms are absolutely disgusting. I wasn't aware of those particular ones but have heard others being used and would never use them myself. Aren't we all those things anyway? (Well we're not, but what I mean is we were all made the same way). As far as I'm aware, there are strict rules not to use those terms on the forums and people have been tossed out for doing so. I just think the people that use them are ignorant and small minded.

I have baby bores as friends, in fact one (antenatal group friend) thought that everyone thought her baby was the cutest in the group and didn't realise we're all programmed to feel that about our own!! Saying that I have a single man bore friend, who thinks I am interest in her sex life and the intimate details of each penis she encounters!!

Yes, I am well acquinted with the man bores. I have one friend who talks about the bodily fluids of every man she sleeps with in inordinate detail. I think hearing about baby poo would be preferable in this case.