Alcoholic husband, will someone walk this road with me?

[PeggyGuggenheim]

It's been an issue all through our ten years together. A bottle of wine to himself, every night, is the least he would have. More like 3 litres of cider a night, or getting bladdered at the pub three times a week.

Anyway, he finally admitted to his best friend that he was an alcoholic and I thought we were getting there...he managed about six weeks without a drink and it was like we were newlyweds. Just such a relief, so much relief and love, and he was a changed person. Then bit by bit, drink creeps back in, and being the idiot I am, I think he's going to be able to be a sensible drinker! Why????

Now we are back to square one and all I'm asking for help with is - on Monday nights an Al-Anon group meets in my town, I have been threatening/promising to go, for about two years! I need to bite the bullet and just GO on Monday night. Is anyone else needing their "hand held" to take this step?

I took the higher power to be my conscience or sometimes just the voice of reason. Doesn't have to be anything religious.

"Really interesting about alcoholism being a form of abuse - it's something I had been thinking about for some time as the effects of alcoholism are certainly not much different to the definitions of abuse. The difference is, I suppose that it is not deliberate, and I think this is important. The alcoholic is suffering with an illness which affects the whole family, and is not doing it deliberately to hurt anyone. They are mentally, physically and spiritually sick."

this is absolutely no different to standard abuse. all abusers are suffering from a form of sickness / mental imbalance. this may be because they have a genetic issue or because of experiences in their past or a combination of the two. whatever it is it stops them from maintaining healthy relationships. i think you are using the analogy of 'sickness' to absolve the alcoholic of responsibility for the situation but this could be done with any abuser. the point is it is not okay and it is not your responsibility to stay and endure it. in fact staying and enduring is only going to make you and the family part of the abusive cycle.

letting an alcoholic think they just have a disease and that nothing they are doing is deliberate is a great "get out of jail" card for them, isn't it? i'm sure all abusers would like to be handed that excuse

an interesting link...is alcoholism a choice or a disease?

www.addictioninfo.org/articles/447/1/Alcoholism-is-not-a-Disease/Page1.html

The "Higher Power" aspect of AA, Al-Anon and all other 12-step programmes, is very problematic. For a long time AA simply used the word "God" and most definitely meant a Christian God. It was only relatively recently that God was replaced with Higher Power to make the 12 Steps a bit more inclusive. But, really, the 12 Steps as written only begin to make sense if you take Higher Power to mean God.

On the other hand, a common phrase you will hear in 12 Steps based organisations is "Take what you need and leave the rest". If you're not into Gods and Higher Powers then fair enough.

When I went to Al-Anon I simply ignored all the guff about turning my my will and my life over to my Higher Power. I wasn't particularly interested in the 12 Steps at all to be honest. Only the first step (that I'm completely powerless over my ex's drinking) made any impact on me and I think there's a powerful truth in that one. I still got a lot out of Al-Anon, not least that I wasn't the only person in the world having to deal with this kind of crap.

I think, on balance, I got more out of one-to-one counselling but that scratches a slightly different itch. The camaraderie and support I got from Al-Anon was very important to me for quite a while.

I'm not sure that alcoholism per se is a form of abuse. Yes, if you're in a relationship with an alcoholic then you take second place to booze but there are a lot of things like that. Having a baby, for instance. And I do agree that trying to have a full relationship with an alcoholic is almost always a real struggle as a result.

But I do think a significant proportion of alcoholics are properly abusive - aggressive, bullying, dismissive, maybe violent etc.

As for whether alcoholism is a disease or not... I personally don't class addictions as diseases. I think there is an element of choice in it, even if that choice feels impossible. If an addict couldn't just decide that, no matter what, he/she is no longer going to continue with the addiction then AA etc simply wouldn't work.

Some addicts will cling on to the "alcoholism is a disease!" thing as an excuse for them continuing to do what they do. That's up to them. Addicts will come up with all sorts of excuses and justifications for why they do what they do - I know I did when I used to be a smoker. It doesn't really matter what an addict says are their reasons for continuing their addiction. What matters is what they do about it.

sorry but i think comparing prioritising alcohol to prioritising a baby is completely misleading. they are not at all the same thing.

I know, but the point I was making is that sometimes in a relationship you take second place to something else and that doesn't necessarily make it abuse. It could be entirely reasonable or it could be entirely selfish but I don't think in itself it is evidence of an abusive relationship. I see abuse as more than that.

I def think my husband neglected me and the kids thru drink.he spent all our money,opted out of every family situation.spent more time with his pub mates after work and sat in the shed drinking when he got home.re money he was always in his mind entitled to spend our savings on drink.he had a choice,he chose to drink.as miflaw said at the start of this thread Alkis are selfish.

Re Al-anon: Snorbs it's useful to hear that you only really used step 1 (We admitted we were powerless over alcohol.)

The self-examination thing is slightly unpalatable to me in as much as it refers to a judgemental Christian God.

But since I have a vague inkling of the numinous (from Buddhist/Quaker/Taoist reading), the higher power thing is just about OK.

Seems that "Take what you need and leave the rest" is the key. Also, very refreshing, in that it's the last thing that some fierce Christians believe!

snorbs i think being put in second place to alcohol in a relationship is ALWAYS abuse.

My DH is a recovering alcoholic and I have learned a massive amount about the disease over the past few years and it IS A DISEASE. The problem is that no-one really understands the issues unless they have lived with an alcoholic and I truly believe that the only counsellors who are any use are those that are recovering alcoholics themselves. Alcoholics can otherwise twist counsellors round their little fingers. AA joke - when is an alcoholic lying? - Whenever they open their mouths. I don't believe that an alcoholic is necessarily abusive to anyone but themselves BUT alcholism is a family disease as everything is affected. It is only when you learn to withdraw - to let go let God - to stop enabling, to stop lying for the alcoholic - to practise tough love. Then you can begin to recover. You can't make them recover - that is totally up to them. I found The Getting Them Sober series of books by Toby Rice Drews a huge help and have recommended them to many people.

Also, I should have said, the no-one in Al Anon will ever advise you what to do. They will just offer support and share their own experience. This is exactly how AA works - totally unjudgemental. It is really unhelpful when people with no experience of alcoholism think they are "helping" by telling someone they should leave/not leave a relationship! You wouldn't leave a partner in most other situations just because they were ill! A huge number of alcoholics can and do recover and continue living happy lives - it just happens they can't drink every again.

Thank you motheroftwoboys I think this non-judgmental stance is very important for vulnerable people. I am in no doubt that alcoholism is a disease which has crept upon my dh over many years. Although I can see that some alcoholics might, he doesn't use it as a get out of jail free card because he doesn't think/admit he has a problem. He was not an alcoholic when we met (27 years ago), or when we got married 14 years ago, or when our children were born 11 and 6 years ago, although I can see now that the problem was developing all that time. Alcohol started to take priority over us about 3 years ago and has taken an increasingly strong grip since then. The main difference I can see between addiction/alcoholism and other diseases is the fear of being 'cured'. I suppose there are other examples of this, e.g. people with bipolar disorder who don't wish to be treated as they would lose a part of their personality which they value. They similarly may be very difficult to live with at times. Of course they have a choice, and that is the frustrating thing about being the family of an alcoholic - you are all too aware of that fact and as far as I can see one of the main points of Al Anon is to take the focus away from that frustration and the banging your head against a brick wall and trying to force solutions. I may well eventually end our marriage, but an ultimatum is after all just another attempt to force a solution, unless you are just saying it's over, I've had enough, whether he stops drinking or not.

It's a very interesting debate as to what alcoholism is classified as. IMO it doesn't really matter ....whatever helps you to understand/get your head round the situation. I do think that getting help for yourself is the main priority. I wish good luck to everyone in this awful situation.

I am just coming to terms with the fact that my DH is an alcoholic. I have known he has a problem for years, but have been in total denial about the severity until recently. I have confronted him several times over the past year or so and thought maybe he was cutting back, but I have now realised he is just getting sneakier about hiding it and covering his tracks.
I am going to my first al-anon meeting this evening. Part of my brain is still telling me not to be so stupid, he's not an alcoholic, he holds down a good job and only drinks evenings and weekends...

But the booze is coming between us to the extent that I now wonder if we have a future, even if he wanted to change. I don't want our children growing up thinking the first thing a person does is reach for a drink as soon as they walk in the door.

He is very aggressive when he has had a lot to drink. When he is under stress, he will drink to excess and then pick arguments with me over trivial things so that he can get his frustration out. I hate the fact that the children might wake up and hear him screaming at me.
It has to change.

Good luck 2nite frag,I felt the same as he worked and only drank during the day on the weekends ,he drank every nite though,every bath he gave the kids he had a can of cider sat on the corner.kids never saw him without a can in his hand.I just wanted my H without the booze.

Yes good luck, Fragglicious.

Another good luck message Fragglicious. My DH has announced he doesn't drink any more but we've been there many times before. I really want to attend an Al-anon meeting too.

They have a website too Anjelika ,can't do links just now but they have chatrooms and info.

Anjelika - tyr here for local meetings www.al-anonuk.org.uk/meetings/

Good luck Frag.

Things are better in our household. Dh has not drunk for eight days now. I have decided not to drink either. He feels ill though, not sure if this is physical damage from the drink or withdrawls. Taking a day at a time.
May go to al anon but nearest meeting for me is some way away. Dh is going to AA.

There's an online Al Anon message board here that I find helpful. They have online meetings too for those who can't reach meetings/get childcare etc.

I think it worked!

As someone who probably drinks too much at occasions,I think what might help is the family changing its whole lifestyle.The dinner parties are handing him the atmostphere to drink;making it seem acceptable.You could stop the dinner parties and both get a gym membership.I think you all have to change your whole lifestyle.I understand,I worry about mself and my husband drinking too much.I've started running and on the nights I run,I don't drink.My husband won't run yet.I worry about his health though and will keep on at him about doing something.
I jnow its hard,I can't stop drinking yet and I want to.Its the only way I know of relaxing,and the more I drink the happier I feel I'm getting.Having a bath and reading seems to relax me the way alcohol does.I know this is very simplistic,it is hard.You'd probably have to take all alchohol out of the house aswell.