HUSBAND LEFT AFTER AN AFFAIR III - AM MOVING ON WITHOUT HIM

[solost]

My husband left me in mid-August when I found out he was having an affair. My original thread (husband had an affair and I want him back) detailed the fact that I felt he had made a mistake and asked for advice on how to get him to see sense and come back to me and our 3 DCs. Four months on, he still hasn't returned and I am re-buildling my life without him. That thread is now full. This is the continuation. Thanks to all of you for your support.

In answer to your specific questions Solost I would resolve this all as part of the new regime. I'd anticipate him having much less flexibility in his new job especially while he is trying to create a good impression. Hence, I would ask him to stick to specific days and if he can't see them on his allotted days, it's his job not yours, to explain to the children. For his part, he needs to negotiate with his new employer if certain evenings are sacrosanct. It's what mothers have to do all the time.

This is based on the children's needs to have structure first and foremost. If you let him change the times on an ad-hoc basis, the children might feel duty bound to change their own plans - saying no to parties or tea invitations and your son especially will soon want to start doing more with his friends independently. It would be awful if they felt guilt-tripped into changing their plans or repressing what they actually wanted to do with their own time.

If this is a rare occasion that he can't see them in the week, it's not going to kill either them or him, if a week goes by without seeing him. He however needs to manage it so that it is rare and so that the DCs are not let down at short notice on a regular basis.

You need structure too. With any luck you will start to do things on the times he's with the DCs. If this is combined with your insistence that he sees them away from your house and this forces his hand to move nearer, he can start to have them for whole evenings in the week, giving you the opportunity to go to college, or counselling, as an example. Or dates .

But the bigger picture here is about the two non-negotiable conditions: that he sees them without your house as base camp and he sees them on agreed days/times.

Start from the premise that it is his problem to find another base-camp. When he does, everything else falls into place. He can buy a bike frame and put the bike on the car and take the DCs to his base camp, where he can fix it. If jobs like that can't wait for him, just take the bike to Halfords or wherever yourself.

While you are in the early months of this new regime, no I wouldn't let him in the house routinely.

But like I said downthread, this does mean you will have to relinquish some control about him parenting the DCs and who they see. If they really are being truthful about not wanting to see the OW and are prepared to tell him so, then it's something he will have to manage. It's about time your DCs felt able to discuss the elephant in the room with him anyway and I find it quite chilling that OW is never ever mentioned when they are all together. Your DCs must be suppressing an awful lot of curiosity and questions.....not good.

I love the word poise. It is an interesting word because the OED gives little space to poise (noun e.g.dignity) and a good deal to poise as balance. But just look at the list of synonyms (Roget's).

Main Entry: poise
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: self-composure, dignity
Synonyms: address, aplomb, assurance, balance, bearing, calmness, confidence, cool, coolness, delicatesse, diplomacy, elegance, equability, equanimity, equilibrium, grace, gravity, polish, presence, presence of mind, sangfroid, savoir faire, self-assurance, self-possession, serenity, stasis, tact, tactfulness, tranquility
Antonyms: excitedness

I understand the association you are probably referring to WhenWill, poise and Grace Kelly and the epitome of femininity, but would see it as a characteristic that requires enormous strengths.

Being of the mindset that something acting in a certain way leads to feeling that way for real I think it is a quality that many of us could aim for; both male and female.

Anyway - perhaps this is a feminist discussion and I am too cowardly to take it there!

Solo - finding another base camp may of course take time. Be guided by your dc in the meantime. You will I am afraid need to discuss this to some extent with that daft man, their father. He needs to take some responsibility for their well being even if he has chosen to live so far away. Perhaps suggest trying an inflexible arrangement for a few weeks and observe the result? For each family, and to a certain extent for each child needs will change. What is important is that each time they see or speak to their dad they know exactly when the next time will be. This will enable short term planning to see friends etc now, even before anything else is sorted.

One thing that occurs to me. I suspect that your children do not see their dad on their own? I wonder if particularly the elder would benefit from a little time on her own with her father to ask questions about his life? Siblings do tend to try and protect each other in between their fighting

And, in the meantime please think about formalizing finances if you can. You don't need to act if you don't want to but I think you need the next chunk of legal information now. Do you remember how you dreaded seeing the solicitor but felt stronger and better informed afterwards last time?

Solost - it's hard because you don't want to upset the DC either - but I think you have to create the routine and stick to the routine, for the DC's sake. If their Dad has to miss a week, so be it - he used to work away before a lot, didn't he? So it would be no different to them. But if he starts turning up on other days, it will create confusion.
What your H wants in all of this is irrelevant - he chose to create this situation of part-time Dad so he has to live with your rules of how it's going to work, so long as it is in the best interests of the DC.

Re. the bike - take it to the bike shop and get it fixed properly. Problem solved. And do it soon so that you can say you needed to get it done earlier than H could manage it.

Don'tDiss as a fellow language lover, I always have to accept that it's what people understand by a word that counts and I have an ideological resistance to any noun or adjective that is most commonly used in relation to one sex only. We've already had "bolshy" on this thread, haven't we?

I dislike the notion of women feeling they have to be (using words from your above list) serene, diplomatic or equable in the face of behaviour that actually merits righteous and healthy anger. I've never known men advised to be "poised" when they are treated badly, either.

This is relevant too as Solost has already stated she finds anger such a negative emotion and it's a fair bet that the DCs can't express it either, because this family "doesn't do" anger.

At this point I do not think I would waste anything as soul destroying as anger on the jerk! Anger usually hurts those dolling it out as well as those receiving. Contempt is more positive from Solo's perspective; but unfortunately they do need to co parent

Oh I think anger is great as long as it doesn't harm myself or others and it's being directed at the right person or situation. I find it a really helpful, galvanising emotion. Agree that contempt is controlled anger and it certainly helps with detachment. Perfectly possible to be civil as a co-parent and feel contempt for a while. It's usually only when life gets better for the angry person that she can let it go. Far too soon in Solost's journey to feel like that and in fact I think the lack of (expressed) anger with the H, is a real hindrance here, to the whole family.

WWIFN you're absoultely right - even if you look towards religion, for example, Christianity teaches that anger is fine, as long as you "don't sin in it" (i.e. murder the cheating, faithless bastard )

It's not a worthless emotion, it's an appropriate and proportionate emotion for a situation of the magnitude that solost has encountered. Trying to feel less about it is simply stifling those emotions, and that's far more counter productive.

Anger is a good emotion when used properly - it is cleansing, it is empowering but it needs to be controlled. And allowing the expression of anger in a controlled manner prevents the build up of festering resentments.

Prolonged anger, beyond the period of usefulness, becomes more worrisome - and then it needs to be converted or channelled into a more appropriate response.

I agree with WWIFN - Solost hasn't shown sufficient anger - but maybe that's partly because we've been doing it for her?

"Solost hasn't shown sufficient anger - but maybe that's partly because we've been doing it for her?"

Ooh, very interesting analysis!

I'd say "thought" rather than "analysis" but thank you!

I just wondered - sometimes when someone is getting all righteously indignant on my behalf, it kind of diminishes my need to do it as well - like there's only so much anger that needs to be thrown at something and I don't need to do as much if someone else is sharing it with me. Not sure if that makes me weird though!

This has got me thinking! Anger? Controlled anger? Contempt? Expressing emotion is, I agree, a very fundamental human need. I think solo did some of this at the start, certainly her dc have done at various points albeit they may have been too scared to direct it at their parents .

"Anger, attachment, jealousy, hatred...these are the real enemy" suggested the Dalai Lama. Note he also acknowledes that resentment requires expression to be finished. Mind you when talking about anger he does acknowledge a constructive type based on compassion. I am not sure solo's twunt of an ex deserves that though!

But...that is my perception, I have a feeling solo is more loving and forgiving than many. The Dalai Lama would undoubtably approve. I promise not to turn this conversation into a Christain/Buddism debate but I think the Buddists I revere have some comments that fit solo (this is me making a judgement!) more than the righteous anger contained within the eye for an eye ethos.

One last quote from the Dalai Lama "it is more important to look forward to the future than dwell in the past". Get those finances formalised solo!!!!

Blimey, that shot it down without a whimper!

I only ever seem to pop in to the same thing. I do have other things I'd like to say but i don't think Solo is ready hear them yet.

But as I've said previously - it isn't that Solo has no anger - it's just she's misdirecting it on to the BB rather than the H.

When Solo realises how irrelevant BB is to the whole thing and accepts that even the BB is being treated abysmally will she see what a shit the H is. I'm not suggesting anyone have any empathy for BB - but really what kind of man takes up with a woman and then snipes about her the way this man does?!

It really scrapes the barrel for someone not to have the guts to carry through with words what he has done with his actions. It is clearly cruel and only due to his self-interest in spinning plates.

At least most shits of husbands that leave don't play around with the ex-wives heads to this degree. It's not because they don't have any doubts themselves it's just they take responsibility for decisions.

Until the time when Solo is really hearing, feeling and understanding this concept of BB being irrelevant will she get over the hurdle and really understand the other things we'd like to wake her up to.

Solo you say you can't understand why he left a happy marriage etc. The answer is very blunt and simple. Not nice to hear which is why we don't really like to hammer you over the head with it. The reason he left is because he felt entitled to the thrill and excitement, fun, the novel and newness of sex with someone different. Don't like saying that to you at all. But you need to stop wondering why and just starting thinking what a self entitled prick he is. He gave up a good marriage because of exciting sex (will dwindle obviously to more run of the mill sex) but that's the long and short of it. Move on from wondering why. You have to. There's nothing to solve. H is a self entitled prick is the answer. Stop pandering to enabling him to live in this parallel universe and start setting the boundaries.

Also very hard to say but I've touched on it before but your kids' interests may be to actually want a relationship with the two of them. I'm not saying you should like it and I fully understand why you won't.

It is time to gently set the scene that you are not averse to them meeting her (i.e. painting it in a positive light). Saying it'd be nice for you etc. Obviously I am only thinking of the confused feelings of your children here and know this is painful for you to even consider.

I think the kids will react negatively initially but I think the healthiest way for them is that they don't perceive it in any way disloyal to you if they are interested in finding out/seeing BB. This being presented positively to your children is the healthiest way for them to start to engage with their feelings. At the moment they may be stifled by thinking it would be too horrible for you and be like "replacing" you etc. This isn't healthy for them and they need to feel confident that you can cope with them possibly having "another life". Obviously what you think in private and how many dolls you have with pins in them is an entirely different matter of course.

You have to relinquish absolute control which will force your H to become a responsible parent as much as you are. Don't infantalise him by thinking he is incapable - he's not. He doesn't need your help to set up his living arrangements to accommodate being a live away father. He literally chose his bed - let him lay in it and make it up for himself too.

P.S. Re. the kids: I say all this all as someone who has been there. Believe me I know it ain't fun waving goodbye. I was like you frozen for three months until I realised meeting OW was inevitable - why put off for ever? The children being happy wherever they are is what I decided on. I put a positive spin on it and pulled my faces privately when told things they'd been up to etc.

Healthy children's minds - feeling free to explore their own emotions with no guilt to cope with. I'm not suggesting you are making your kids feel guilt but we all know what kids are like. Kids will take on so much emotional responsibility unless the space is created for them to explore emotions confidently in the knowledge that they aren't being disloyal. This is ultimately more important than us crying when they're gone because the shit of a H created the mess. Again been there - I'm not saying it's easy - I'm saying it's the healthy way to go.

Your disloyal H leaving you won't damage the children. However the whole situation ending up where the kids feel that sides exist and that the H and BB is the ones to blame and they need to protect your feelings could potentially be damaging.

Remember they don't have to meet her - it's their decision. But they should feel very confident that you are happy for them to do so if they wish and think of it in a positive light. This will take time as they will have picked up on stuff from you and will doubt you could genuinely think it a good idea currently.

Remember actions speak louder than words? It applies backwards to your kids also. You've told them you've split but to all intents and purposes while he is so at home at their home it is confusing for them. Set those boundaries. Let you kids know there is "another life" with their dad which will now not involve you (i.e. the current confusing situation will be ending). Put a positive spin on it ie. you are busy doing so and so having a good time while they're with their Dad etc.

Ultimately your H needs to get a place nearer you and take his kids there. He needs to do this. Not you - you will force the issue by no longer enabling him in the current situation.

That was a bloody good post kettlecrisps.

Especially:
It really scrapes the barrel for someone not to have the guts to carry through with words what he has done with his actions. It is clearly cruel and only due to his self-interest in spinning plates.

At least most shits of husbands that leave don't play around with the ex-wives heads to this degree. It's not because they don't have any doubts themselves it's just they take responsibility for decisions.

Describes my H to a T :(

Solo - hugs matey because there's been some (probably) shellshocking comments for you here.

There's so much I want to say in your defence, having been there, but the sad thing is, everyone is right, but until you're ready to see it for what it is, you are still on that planet far away - been there, done it, got the t-shirt

I was absolutely determined NOT to let my DH get away without financial provision for OUR daughter; however, the law (unfairly imho) states that marriage = 50/50. I've managed to screw the bastard down to 45/55 and that really smarts given it was MY family inheritance that paid for half of our house and how dare he get away with practically half of that .

I promised myself I would hang on to this house if it was the last thing I did. Without hardly any financial support from DH - and I mean hardly any, it doesn't even cover half the mortgage - my circumstances are different to yours as only have one DD and she is now 18. However, it's all relative. I still have to pay all the bills (and believe me, living in the New Forest is not cheap) AND provide for an 18yo and all her associated living costs, college, car etc. While he does fuck-all. I had my career some years ago and, for many years, was the main breadwinner in the house. Then took redundancy as didn't want to relocate and worked in a school office for 6.5 years. He was very happy to be the main breadwinner then, strutting his stuff around.

Over the last few weeks I've come to realise that sleep at night is much more important than hanging on to a house which I used to love so much, be SO proud of. I have no feeling whatsoever for the house now (can't even think of it as 'home'). So am gonna sell it, pay off all the horrendous debts that my super-shit of a cheating husband left me with, put some by as a nest egg for my DD and then look for a new home.

I won't be able to afford anything as nice as the house I currently live in, so am going to rent. I've done all the "why should I have to compromise" asking, especially since he's just informed me he's moving in with his latest girlfriend soon. A year ago I refused point blank to even consider renting, but life has changed so much in the last year - and that's what this very long winded blurb of mine is all about.

Yes, why should you have to move from your home? You have three children who know that as home - my DD is off to uni in September and, having spent many hours chatting with her about our situation, is almost as excited as me at our new lives. You don't have the luxury of your DCs making the decisions with you, or at least understanding the whys.

Your life - and that of your children - HAS changed. Nothing you can do about that - your husband made that choice very nicely for you. But you must understand that life is never going to be the same again and changes, no matter how small, will have to be made.

Like your working life, for example. WELL DONE YOU for having the guts to even think about doing something different I do now and I LOVE IT!!

Everything we do, everything that we change, stick at or whatever, helps to become the new you.

Sorry to hear that sufficient.x

People that really care about you will stretch and challenge patterns of thought they think are ultimately unhealthy. Anything else is taking the easy option and merely enabling behaviour that is ultimately destructive. In real life people will tend to take the easier option unless there is a very good sister like relationship that can take the strain.

On here (it's not nice) but we can challenge you to stretch and question your reactions. That is why WWIFN's posts are particularly invaluable to you Solo, and I know you recognise that.

I have to say I also know where Lizza's post above is coming from but have also recognised that you are not ready to face such searching questions yet. I have hinted at them with suggestions previously that you look at past patterns of behaviour (you as well as your H's).

You need to make the first steps of at least of attributing blame to your H and yes to get angry with him. Not destructive anger but the type that produces results and strength within you. This will ultimately set the boundaries in place properly.

Re. Life moves on I understand you say you wish to speak up in her defence etc. but pleased to see you recognise that actually that's what we are all doing here. If we all sat here plotting and scheming ways of getting one over on the BB etc. that would be enabling behaviour and destructive for Solo.

Rightly we steer well away and remind her to focus back on the H and not enable her to go round in circles on here with her thoughts which would ultimately be indulgent. That type of talk has its place at the initial shock but it's not good or healthy to let someone you care about go round in mental circles when its time to gather themselves together.

Good for you Lifemoveson!

KETTLECRISPS: Thanks for posting. You are right of course, I am stretched and have faced very uncomfortable questions on here which I would not get in RL, where my friends are just, well my friends always there to support me but wouldnt dream of putting things to me that you lot do on here!

I am interested in your comment re LIZZA's post, could you expand? I always thought I was a kind of well balanced? person but obviously am not coming across like that here. I am ready (I think) and maybe it would be helpful to explore others perceptions of me. TBH I never give 'myself' much thought, have never done any analysis of myself but maybe if I have an insight (that you and others have) it may help me understand myself and my reactions - do you think?

I was originally very angry with H - he left in August and I didn't start posting until mid-November so maybe it had kind of subsided into self pity? by then. I smashed up loads of his stuff, and punched him when he told me (and feel ashamed of that now). I do also get what THUMBWITCH posted about others being angry on my behalf. I do still feel angry, bloody angry with him sometimes but then I feel I should let it go, is that wrong? You ladies on here have got me questioning so many aspects of myself at the moment, I think I preferred the head in the sand version of me

Regarding BB, I am still bloody fuming at her, and I don't know how to let it go, I understand it wasn't just her, that H was as much to blame its just the thought of her playing happy families with my kids hurts so much. I never badmouth her to the DC's by the way, I hope I come across as completely neutral about her (being enthusiastic about her - well not quite there yet!)and always answer their questions etc honestly and as impartially as I can.

LIFEMOVESON: Thanks for the hugs. There have been some shellshocking comments, but probably deserved and I am still working through and re-reading them.

Sorry to hear about your home. I swing from feeling I could do with a fresh start to why the hell should we have to move. I am a bit all over the place at the moment.

The fact that my life has completely and utterly changed is so scary, sometimes I am ok about it, I can sort of embrace it, then I wonder whether I will be OK (although I realise I will have to be) and I am alone - for the first time in my adult life and that is totally terrifying but kind of liberating as well. I think that is one of my problems, my inability to look to far into the future, I am kind of living day by day at the moment.

It great to hear from you, that it gets better, that I will get through. You are right about the changes, I feel myself changing already but I don't know whether I want to maybe being with H for so long I lost my own identity iyswim and now I am struggling to find who I was never mind who I am becoming? Very deep for a Tueday evening - and I also have burbled for too long (didnt think you had!)

WWIFN: Thank you so much for your post - glad you're sticking with me - I do appreciate it.

Can I give you a bit of background on H's job. Its basically homebased but in essence it involves travelling around the country. He visits clients/customers at their request, he has to check certain processes on machinery and this is entirely governed by his clients/customers. This week he is in Scotland until tommorrow, he then drives to London for meetings on Wed pm/Thurs then on to Devon for Thurs pm early Friday. This will be a typical week for him.

Therefore the chances of him being able to see the DC's regularly on any particular weekday would be slight. My question therefore is, do I still insist on regular days (when it is out of his control as to when/where he has to work) and him not seeing them on any other days, and what do I say to the DC's? when I implement this. I am prepared to do this but just don't want the DC's to see me as 'stopping them seeing Daddy'. How do I handle this?

Thank you

I hope you don't mind me saying Solost but I think regular contact days would be not only beneficial to the children's routine but also for you. One day you will have a whole new life and you won't want H popping in whenever he can make it, I promise you, you yourself will be glad of set contact days when this happens.

When I fist left my ex I was happy for open access but he wanted a contact schedule. I was gutted at first for my DD but it has turned out to be the best thing all round. DD knows exactly where she stands and I know exactly when to keep a low profile do too. I am pleased he insisted on it now. Our 'schedule' is DD stays over with dad every Wednesday evening and she stays with him every other weekend and she is perfectly happy with that.

Where there is a will, there is a way, it can be done, if you want it done.

Solo - if he was a woman then he would find a way... he will just have to let work know there is such a thing as flexible working in this modern age and argue his case. His problem is that he is used to having someone at home picking up all the slack with childcare, but that's not an option now - you have a right to know when you can make plans to do your own thing. You are not beholden to him or his job anymore.

I am sometimes glad (but often not) that you are not a punisher like me, you know. Before now I would have got myself a dictaphone and recorded one of those conversations about the BB and how he sees her as unworthy / mad / not marriage material or so on, and then posted the whole bastard thing to her. Then the whole works would be out in the open and he'd have nowhere to hide. Plus she would know the full picture and could give him the kick in the guts he deserves. The fact that he whines and wheedles around you about how bad she is makes me feel ill, and whenever I drop in on this thread to see how you are, there he is repeating everything as before. He is truly vile.

TIMEFORMEISFREEnks for sharing your experience. I agree regular days would be good for me as well as the DCs. Have been giving it some thought and H has to prepare a 'weekly movement sheet' on a Friday for the week after (although it is subject to change) how about if we agreed which alternate day he could see the DCs then? I just feel uneasy about preventing him seeing the DC's if there was an alternative day he could - I understand about the regular days and would stick to them unless there was no way he could. Does that sound feasible? or like I am backsliding?

I always told him he could see them whenever he wanted - at first I was scared that his contact would gradually get less and less now I know it won't but I don't want to appear (to the DC's) that I am stopping their dad from seeing them.

ABEDELIA: Before this happened, I would have bet a million pounds that I WOULD have been a punisher. Not sure what happened?

Even if he does have different sites to visit, surely they can't not tell him a week in advance, or their staff would have no home or social life at all! That is beyond the call of duty, and they would surely have staff turnover problems. He must have a roster at least a week in advance, so that could be used to make arrangements. It's a pity for you, especially with regard to starting a course, but perhaps he can ask his parents to step in on the evenings when he can't make it. He has to talk to your PIL about this, though, as you've already indicated a little shyness about pushing them too much; that is as it should be, as they are not your parents, but his, and you were actually only taking the responsibility for something he ought to have been sorting out, iirc.

As for finding out who you are, a good way to start might be to think about what you read in the newspaper, what threads you are drawn to on Mumsnet, what kind of person you respond to well, what values you are trying to instill in your children, what you would do with a free week (in which the children are happy and provided for, so you don't need to worry about them). These all reveal interests and personality traits.

PLUPEDANTIC: Thanks for posting. Yes the site visits are in advance, but they are customers sites, so all different shifts etc, he also has to 'wine and dine' potential customers etc, so I suppose he is at their beck and call.

Who I am? well in lots of ways I am not who I thought I was particularly in regard to what has happened over the last 8 months. I always thought (and said) that if H ever had an affair I would throw him out and never speak to/see him again. But I think the problem is that my feelings for him have not switched off (yet) and thats something I will have to work on.

Thanks for the list. Just for the record, I read everything in the newspaper (except for the sports pages), am drawn to 'infidelity' threads on here (surprise, surprise), respond to open, happy people and instill in my children, good manners, kindness, responsibility and honesty. And finally, if I had a free week - would spend it alone by the sea somewhere. What does that say about me - I wonder!!