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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

HUSBAND LEFT AFTER AN AFFAIR III - AM MOVING ON WITHOUT HIM

859 replies

solost · 10/02/2011 21:56

My husband left me in mid-August when I found out he was having an affair. My original thread (husband had an affair and I want him back) detailed the fact that I felt he had made a mistake and asked for advice on how to get him to see sense and come back to me and our 3 DCs. Four months on, he still hasn't returned and I am re-buildling my life without him. That thread is now full. This is the continuation. Thanks to all of you for your support.

OP posts:
solost · 11/02/2011 23:31

WWIFN: If you were me, what would you do?

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 11/02/2011 23:37

If you are still up, tell me when did these 2 hour phone calls in the car occur then?

I'll also give some thought to your last question. Smile

solost · 11/02/2011 23:48

I am still up! its quite addictive this Mumsnet thing isnt it?! Smile

The phone calls took place AFTER both trips. H maintains nothing sexual happened until end April/May - he also maintains that they never had intercourse until he left (for some reason this seems important to him) - and I do believe this, why lie? When he told me this I asked him what was the difference between oral and full sex, cheating was cheating, sex was sex as far as I was concerned, but I think for him, holding back was being 'loyal' to me in some way - IYSWIM?

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 12/02/2011 00:02

Why do you hold onto that ?

if you say sex is sex...why do you even give headspace to the fact that he thinks he was being loyal ?

the contradictions in just a couple of sentences there are glaring

why does what he thinks even matter ?

of course he is going to say he didn't "really" cheat until he left

you say what would he gain ?

well, it adds fuel to his self-delusion about what a "good" man he is

he isn't

solost · 12/02/2011 00:07

WWIFN: Re: the calls. H also said they were not sexual or suggestive, just BB ringing for a general chat about life, her problems, the fact her love life was crap and she was thinking of re-locating via her job to another country etc. He said they were quite boring actually.

I asked him if at the time he didnt see anything wrong with spending upto 2 hours on the phone to a 'colleague'. He said he probably did but as the calls were just general chat he kind of thought it was OK?

Did I ever tell you how I found out about their affair? Not sure I did, anyway, DD's computer was broken and I borrow H's laptop, was having some suspicions at the time and I snooped through his emails. Found one that was a picture of some animals and a caravan with a caption 'this is what I woke up to this morning'. He hadnt even opened it, it was 3 days old. I just felt it wasnt right, questioned H who passed it off as some joke from a colleague - I asked if she was married, he became vague and said 'I think so'. But it just didnt seem right. So when he had gone to bed, I got up and when back to the computer, found nothing incriminating at all except this one email. Then I found a button 'all other emails from this sender' - I pressed it and bingo! hundreds of emails from her (they must have been pulled back from his co database because they werent on his computer). But do you know what, not one was sexual or suggestive in any way. They were mainly pictures - of her, her mum and gran in a teashop, a pub-sign (a private joke probably), a poster for a country fair - weird stuff like that. He hadnt even opened some of them?

And I just knew, so I went upstairs (it was 4.30am) and lobbed the laptop at his sleeping form - he nearly had a heart attack, then got all defensive about me infringing his privacy!! snatched up the laptop and locked it in his car!! And thats how I found out. And I suppose thats why I believe it wasnt really sexual and thats worse really, the emotional stuff. He said he never even read most of them - which was true, they hadnt been opened.

Does that help clarify? Your thoughts?

OP posts:
solost · 12/02/2011 00:18

AF: I dont hold on to it.

Just trying to give WWIFN an insight into the kind of guy H is/was.

FTR: to me a kiss is cheating, oral sex is cheating, full sex is cheating but the emotional stuff is worse.

I know he is not a good man and I think H knows that too.

OP posts:
thumbdabwitch · 12/02/2011 02:23

Ah solost - lots of movement on this thread since I last posted!

I want to pick up on one thing that I don't think has been raised yet:
"He has always said right from the beginning he would never do it again - that he has learned his lesson..."

Err, no. He hasn't learnt his lesson at all, what a load of bollocks. I appreciate that those are his words and not yours - but seriously! he won't learn his lesson UNTIL he realises that what he has done has irrevocably broken his family relationship with you and his DC, which is what has happened. He may be able to forge a new relationship with you at some point in the future IF HE WORKS HIS ARSE OFF FOR IT - but it won't be the same one as it was before. His relationship with the DC has also changed - he is now an "absent father" for some of the time. He can never undo that either.

So - he thinks he's learnt something? Not really. All he may have learnt is that the grass isn't greener elsewhere - but he sure as hell has NOT learnt (yet) that his actions lead to consequences he might not like very much. It's up to you to make sure he gets that lesson.

Also - I want to disagree with Fridascuffs suggestion of sending him an email - no no no no no. As things stand at the moment, give him NO ENCOURAGEMENT AT ALL. No reason to think that you would ever take him back, ever. Make him believe that you are moving on completely from him and that what he does now is of supreme indifference to you except in how it affects your DC.
ANY HINT AT ALL that you would consider having him back is a green light to him to think "I'm still in there, I can go back any time I like, whatever she says about conditions, she's not going to risk losing me again". So ignore it - as you say, the option is not on the table at the moment, if ever - work on the principle that it will NEVER be on the table and then you will get on much better and much faster (although you're still doing really well as it is, but he is holding you back by that slim chain of "almost-hope")

re. the cheating - I agree that emotional attachment can actually be worse than the sex stuff. And all those photos and chatty emails and phonecalls that she bombarded him with were all to hook him into her life. Still his fault that he allowed himself to be hooked, however.

FWIW - my exF went "missing" a couple of nights before he called off the wedding - he'd been at the flat of the woman he went off with until 2am. He consistently claimed that:

  1. they didn't sleep together
  2. there was no suggestion/offer of a relationship with her. Yet he left our house to go to her flat; and 3 weeks later he arranged a "family meal" out with her, to introduce her to the family.

THEY LIE ABOUT THIS STUFF. Even when there is no benefit to continue to lie, they still lie. Just in case. Somehow they know that admitting it would be a Step Too Far, so they lie.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 12/02/2011 03:03

Got woken up by our dog barking Solost and couldn't resist seeing if you'd got back, so here's what I typed out just before bed, to send to you in the morning:

Solost can I start by saying that I admire you for acknowledging that although what I write isn't what you want, you feel it is what you need. I'm also glad you're going to think about all this a bit more.

I'm afraid I'm going to dismantle his story even more. On your earlier thread, when I provided an alternative version of the affair where he directed events and let the OW take responsibility, you yourself agreed that between meeting her for the first time in the November and that first trip in February, there was contact. This is in fact what you said on that thread:

"There probably were emails between november (when they first met) and march, I knew they had a few work related meetings too, but others were always present. H did say once she used to ring him and if he was driving she could be on the phone for up to 2 hours 'just talking about her life, how lonely she was, how badly other men had treated her'.

It is therefore a complete lie that there was no contact between them from November till February. He has previously admitted to you that there were work meetings. Perhaps he forgot that little slip from months ago?

Consequently, it is fantasy that the first time he knew she was on that trip was at the airport. Just as it is fantasy that the first time he became aware of her as a potential affair partner was on that trip.

I wonder whether you have missed something in something else he said, about the second trip and taking her back to her room?

He knew something would happen, but thought he would go 'so far' and pull back??

Well according to him, he did pull back. He says he kissed her and slept on the chair. Not that I think he did just that, of course.

I'm sorry Solost but I think they had sex on that trip and I think he is lying through his teeth about there being no penetrative sex until after he left. I have heard of men starting their affairs in this way, to allow the pretence to linger a little longer, that like Bill Clinton, they haven't been technically unfaithful, but I have never known of that lasting, especially in someone who goes on to leave for the OW.

Why would he lie? Precisely as AF says. He wants you to believe that right till the end, he still had "some scruples". It's not important that he believes this, because of course it's a lie, so he can't. It is however important to him that you believe it and can still be manipulated by his lies.

As for the phone calls, that's a lie too. He knew full well what those calls were about and made them too, plenty of them. I am convinced that by that time, their relationship was highly sexual and would not have been mundane interactions at all. Even his colleague, hearing a vastly sanitised call on the speaker phone, knew it was dangerous and told your H so.

The laptop E mails don't surprise me though. E mails are still not regarded as being as "safe" as text messages and if they were originally forwarded to his work inbox, it wouldn't surprise me that they had a pact to send anodyne communications between the companies rather than risk some systems manager doing a search of people's inboxes. Some organisations even have quarantine systems in place for messages that contain non-business terms, such as "love" or "sex".

You said a couple of months ago that by May, he was already thinking of leaving you and was telling OW that he would. Even in the grip of an enormous crush, I find it hard to believe that he would have left within days or weeks of the relationship becoming physical. He might though, if he had been involved in a full emotional and physical affair for 3 months.

Paltry though that 3 month timescale was, it must surely be more palatable for you to believe that it at least took months rather than days or weeks for him to decide to leave you? This is a prime example of when I say that the lies that people tell actually show them in a worse light than the truth. If he thought about it, how bloody awful does that make him sound? That he would decide to throw away 27 years and 3 DCs for an affair that was less than a month old? Shock

Yet this is what he wants you to believe.

What would I do? This is difficult because I have come to detest your H over the months and cannot imagine I'd feel any differently if I met him in RL.

Dog settled down again now, so back to bed. Thank God it's Saturday tomorrow Wink

However I acknowledge that you don't, more's the pity. Therefore, I can only try to get inside your head and imagine what I would do if I still thought that this man was worth having.

It sticks in my throat, but this is what I would do if I wanted him back.

I would start divorce proceedings. Apart from the expense, I wouldn't care a jot if it progressed to divorce. The old marriage would be dead anyway and I'd have no desire to hang on to it. Any future relationship with him would have to be new and different, but at least if that didn?t happen, I'd gain an equitable financial and childcare deal.

I would change the locks and tell him why.

I would ask the DCs how they wanted to see their Dad and accord with their wishes. If they wanted to see him at home, I would get an internal lock on my bedroom door and hide all my personal stuff in there.

I would go out every time he came round.

I would get some urgent solo therapy.

If he dropped any more hints about regrets, I would tell him that he can never come back. Hence, if his relationship is on the rocks, that must come to its own natural ending, but it would have to be him ending it and not her.

I would wait to see if it does end and watch him move to a flat nearer his children, insisting that from that point onwards, he sees them there and not at your home.

I would watch with interest to see whether he got any solo therapy.

I would spend months trying to create my own life, seeing friends and meeting new people.

If I still loved him after all that and he had dismantled every personal and lifestyle vulnerability to future infidelity, I would start dating him again and draw up some groundrules for a completely new relationship.

I would tell him to stop lying about what happened during the affair and once and for all, to tell the full truth. If he then rehashed the crock he gave you on that O2 trip, I would walk away and not look back.

thumbdabwitch · 12/02/2011 03:52

Good advice from WWIFN - except that I don't think he could tell you any different now - because once they re-write their history, it's actually quite hard for them to remember what is factual truth and what is their re-written version of "truth". So, to them, their lies have become the new "truth" - overlaying the old (real) truth, which therefore may have been erased completely.

The only way to get him back to the real truth is to have hard evidence of it - present him with that evidence and his re-written version of the "truth" could crumble (unless he can incorporate it into his new "truth") - but if you can't do that, then his version will stand.

plupervert · 12/02/2011 09:16

I'm not sure how much more benefit can be gained from learning exactly what went on with the affair. This is, admittedly, my opinion, but I have experienced this twice, from different perspectives:

  1. My parents divorced when I was a teenager, and my mother was careful to keep most of it from me. I knew various things were going on, and my mother did slip up a few times, such as when she came back crying because my father had brought his girlfriend to the club where she worked, and was pawing her publicly. (Naturally, my mother felt bloody humiliated and needed to vent!) However, even though I was still not an adult, and should therefore have been desperately and deviously finding out whatever I could, in order to re-order my broken understanding of the world, I did accept that there were some things I couldn't know, that no-one would tell me, and had to live with that.

  2. I had a relationship which ended through my ex's (then boyfriend's) infidelity while we were apart. He tried to tell me all about it, tried to tell me all about how horrified he was with himself, and blah blah blah. We shared - and still share - quite a few friends, so I was (a) cut off from sharing my woes with everyone (grrr) and (b) some mutual friends tried to share with me gossip about what he was getting up to after the breakup. However, I stopped them because quite soon, I just didn't want to know. Refusing to hear what someone is up to (especially if it's selfish behaviour) is a very important freedom to take for oneself and an important statement for others (sometimes other people can "trap" one in relations with an ex, long after the two parties should be regarded as "over", and it felt as though that was happening with me. I didn't want to be regarded as his ex, anymore, as he was nothing to do with me anymore). Not knowing what he was up to also allowed me some respite, from having my pride hurt, to get over it. I can therefore definitely vouch for the value of not-knowing-any-more!

However, having given these examples, I must caution that I'd had enough jealousy and manipulativeness from (2) during the relationship, so not-wanting-to-know was probably a lot easier for me than for you, solost. Nevertheless, if you can bring yourself to stop connecting to him in order to work this stuff out again and again, it could really help to free you.

ScaredOfCows · 12/02/2011 09:29

Morning Solo - wow some great responses over last night and this morning.

WRT you dating, or even just getting out to meet new people. I think it is completely natural when you have been in a relationship with the same person for so long, for all of your adult life, to not really fancy other men. I still think though, that you should try to get out and maybe date a little, so that you have something for you, and maybe just for fun. Ex H seems to be taking up too much of your time and headspace, give yourself someone else to think about - it doesn't have to be serious, just, as I said, for fun. I also think that he should not be babysitting when you go out, it gives him too much information and control over your life.

You need to stop telling him to phone BB back when she texts/calls. By telling him to call you are letting him know that the calls are registering on your radar (they shouldn't, he is just there for the children), and you are giving him 'permission' to engage with her during 'children time'. Really it's up to him to decide alone if to call or not.

robberbutton · 12/02/2011 09:50

Definitely agree with Scaredofcows, don't get involved in their conversations at all. I know it seems like you telling him to call her shows you don't care, but you need to be even more detached than that. Your H can think that by telling him what to do you still care, are still involved in his life. Don't give him that!

LittleMissHissyFit · 12/02/2011 11:43

Flipping Heck.

ONE night, ONE FLAMING NIGHT....

I pop out to get smashed with the girls for a couple of bottles glasses, and just look what happens...

Freedom in Egypt, and this thread takes off at warp speed!

Well done Solo, you may be finding all this a bit heavy going, but are doing so very well. Keep strong girl!

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 12/02/2011 16:06

Just re-read my post Blush. Obviously, that line about the dog being settled was meant to go at the foot of the post....can I plead tiredness and dog-induced irritation?Grin

robberbutton · 12/02/2011 16:48

Blimey, we're a bossy lot aren't we? [bush] I mean, you might consider not getting involved with their phone calls, not you must, you need to, don't do this... sorry, getting a bit carried away! Blush Grin With the best will in the world of course...

robberbutton · 12/02/2011 16:49

[bush]? wtf? Now I'm bossy and rude! Will have to step away for a bit Blush Blush

AnyFucker · 12/02/2011 17:01

RB Grin

StarExpat · 12/02/2011 18:03

I feel for you, solost. How difficult this must be. Just when you're thinking you are detached... You find out that you actually aren't arch as you thought and it gets harder.

I hope the weekend with H was ok.

Grin at RB

Anniegetyourgun · 12/02/2011 18:07

Although I believe the WWIFN version of the affair's history is a lot closer to reality than the Spineless Jellyfish version (eg if it's not a total crock of shit that he "slept in a chair" in that hotel room after an evening's flirting I'll eat my hat, coat and best Sunday socks), I still think it doesn't make all that much difference in moral terms. Either he left his wife and children because he was already shagging someone else, or he left them in order to shag someone else. Either way it's Dick 1 - Conscience 0. And he's still blaming the BB for making all the running, which is frankly disingenuous as well as unchivalrous. I spat, along with many other readers I'm sure, at that "wish BB didn't love him" line. "Wish I'd cut my own bits off before I went there" would be a bit more sincere (although he's still going back to her flat when they aren't having rows, so what does the evidence suggest, my dear Watson?). But no, it's all her fault. She hypnotised him so he couldn't say "No I really mean I am married and I want to stay that way, so please stop chasing me because it is beginning to feel like harassment". That's why everything went all blurry for the best part of a year, isn't it? Because she slipped something in his tea.

No, it won't wash. Maybe he isn't really a bad man, but he is currently continuing to do bad things.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 12/02/2011 19:18

I agree that the truth doesn't matter as much as the outcome Annie but for Solost I hope that it's relevant that he is STILL lying and failing to take full responsibility. It's too easy for him to mutter the words "I take full responsibility"...and then go on to blame the OW's actions and words for why the affair progressed. That's not responsibility - that is lying.

Anniegetyourgun · 12/02/2011 19:25

Very true. I should have said "... bad things, like telling lies".

That's the advantage of being with a person for so many years: you know exactly what buttons to press when you want to pull the wool over their eyes, to mix a metaphor.

LifeMovesOn · 12/02/2011 22:12

Wow, some pretty serious reflecting going on here and, like others, I am concerned to see Solost using words like "if I take him back"....

I have been through it, my DH's affair was also with a work related she-devil (she was a client of his) and it started off as 'just talking, we seemed to get on so well'.

I'm nearly 18 months on from my DH finally admitting his 13 month affair, took him back and then discovered they were still at it.

One thing I said to him at the very beginning of my finding out (and several times again) was that he always had a choice. Your DH was no different. HE had a choice to make, but he didn't choose you or the girls. He chose HIMSELF.

Sorry, but your DH is almost using the same words my DH did - wish the affair had never started; it was all his fault, not hers; thought she would get bored of him (ha ha - she did, as soon as he told her he had left me Grin).

I actually feel completely frustrated and impotent at not being able to reach into your mind and get you to see things clearer. Please don't take that personally, Solo, I feel like it because I was just like you, for the first few months kept thinking he was going to see sense and come home (again, I'd already given him a chance).

Aaaarrrrggggghhhhh, I want to get your DH in a locked room and let him know exactly what I want to do to him for putting you through this.

If you want to get back together, than that's what you will do, nobody will be able to stop you.

You have already thought about the rules you will put in place if you do allow him back.

Good luck sweetheart. People told me that I was going to come through my hell - and you know what, they were damned right. 18 months ago, even 9 months ago, I did not believe them. I can't tell you when it all started to get right again, but it did.

I've still got a long way to go - but this is because I wanted to make a new life for myself and I have. And such a better one it is for my daughter and I now.

Look, bottom line is: the man you used to think of as your husband is someone else now. No matter what happens, that old person will never come back - nor will the old version of you.

You just have to decide what YOU want for you, and then what's best for the girls.

xx

StarExpat · 12/02/2011 22:20

She has a DS, too :)

LifeMovesOn · 12/02/2011 22:27

Thank you StarEP Blush - knew that, just brain is addled - new job, knackered-itis and anger at Mr Fuckwit-Solost!

Just had the most delicious Marks & Spencer valentine's meal for two - with my lovely daughter!! Who needs a man when they provide a seriously three course meal, choccies and pink bubbly!!

solost · 12/02/2011 22:29

THUMB: Indeed a lot of movement on here. I am going to re-read and digest later - was up soooo late on here last night - thanks to WWIFN Grin

WWIFN: Thanks for getting back to my thread in the middle of the night, hope you managed to get back to sleep after your interruption Grin. I am still re-reading and digesting your thread - you have given me lots to think about. And thanks also for your reply, to 'what would you do if you were me?' - I knew it would be difficult for you but knew you wouldnt let me down - I really appreciate you taking time to reply.

I think the problem this week for me has been, the O2 event. We spent a lot of time together and it reminded me of what things were like when we were together. I thought things would be awkward but we got on so well and this has put me back BUT I am getting back on track. I am back to detaching, tbh I know this is the way forward. I will respond to your post more fully, after more thought. Thanks again

THUMB: I think you are right to a degree, when I asked H certain questions he claimed he couldnt remember - I replied 'oh Im sure you can, if you think about it'. He was definately very uncomfortable with going over it all again.

PLUPERVERT: I think I am trying to get some kind of 'closure' (I hate that word btw!). Originally I needed to know to prove to myself that I couldnt have done anything to prevent it happening, also the things I imagined - whether that was worse or better than the 'truth'??. I does help, not sure why but it does.

SCAREDOFCOWS: Dating - hmmmm, never done it! That is soooo scary - not sure anyone would want me + 3 DCs + more baggage than Maria Carey!!! Grin.

Re: BB & her intrusive calls - I pulled H this morning when he came to collect DCs and told him I would prefer it if he wouldnt call BB whilst he was spending time with the DCs - he said it wouldnt happen again, he would respect my wishes.

ROBBERBUTTON: I see what you mean - thanks Grin

LMHF: Hope you enjoyed your night out Grin could do with one myself at the moment!

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