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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

AF, Dittany, Grace et al Itsnotjustaslap DV Update

245 replies

itsnotjustaslap · 04/02/2011 13:07

Hi

Just thought would update; thought about things and realised that I was coping fine with my son without my husband and not falling apart. He did not contribute anything much to my happiness or to the house or childcare (or at least far less than he thought he did) and that I felt far calmer and happier without him.

He did not really regret the violence or acknowlege that he was controlling or that ranting in front of our son for hours was harming him.

Soo...I contacted Social Services to report my concerns for my son's emotional well being as he wakes in the night for hours and cries (but he has slept through since my husband left) and to report the DV. They stated that they did have real concerns for my son's welfare and wanted to speak with both me and my husband. They also advised me to go to the police which I did.

I wanted the DV to be just put on file however the police stated that he would be arrested and charged regardless of whether I made a statement or not. It was really hard but I made the statement anyway and he was arrested and charged.

Obviously things are very difficult now with him and his family. He is trying everything to win me back, as he does not want to lose everything but has also said that if we get back together I must fully apologise to his family for getting the police involved in a private matter and getting him a criminal record (they can fuck right off!).

I am sooo much happier without him. The police protection unit have told me that if I go back to him he will seriously harm me so that makes my decision easier.

He does not yet know that my decision is made and it will be really difficult when he does know as he will become very angry and possibly violent and I do have concerns about contact with our son. But I'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

OP posts:
dittany · 25/02/2011 23:35

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dittany · 25/02/2011 23:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

itsnotjustaslap · 26/02/2011 00:09

Thanks dittany I have asked my Womens Aid care worker to call Social Services on my behalf to tell them everything I've told them, how I feel, the not coping etc. That I'm worried he will start staying the night every now and then on a regular basis. That I'll be back where I started from.

Apparently my husband has told me that our child's social worker is not at all concerned that he can stay the night and help co-parent. This does not ring true to me so I am querying it; but I need Womens Aid to speak to them first. I know that what I did earlier this week in just breaking down doesn't reflect very well on my parental responsibilites and I just need Womens Aid to act as advocate on my behalf.

I also would like a family group conference. To discuss my son's well being, my mental health needs (I know I could veer towards mania without sleep) and how best to proceed with all family support.

Both him and his family need to know that they cannot collude and make out that him staying the night is an acceptable solution - it breaks my boundaries that I am trying to put in place - and it just contributes to the minimisation from his family.

I spoke to his mother in a toe curlingly horrible, horrible conversation about our relationship when she came over to babysit our son while I went to my mothers for a break. I didn't intend to speak to her about anything, but she honestly thought that there had only been a momentary one-off incident brought about by my husband's momentary loss of control caused by sleep deprivation. I had to tell her the truth even though I knew it would hurt her; she did accept what I said and the fear it had caused me but she said at one point 'well we all have to take risks and i could go home and my husband could stab me through the heart tonight'.

Erm, well no, not exactly; if your partner had never given you reason that they would harm you then it would be highly unlikely. Domestic violence is not random.

I haven't let him worm his way back in. I veer between enjoying his company with our son (in public places etc)and then thinking, rationally about what he did and what he may worst case scenario may be capable of. It terrifies me. Sometimes I feel paranoid or that the professionals are paranoid because that could never, ever be me; but I guess everyone feels that.

There is a lot I have to come to terms with. It's not black and white. Someone can be a normal person with attractive qualities, but be capable and commit awful things.

I feel too close to the truth to be able to judge right now. The only thing I'm certain on is that I have to be clear about what boundaries to set hence I really need the input of Social Services and any suggestions / plans they can help with.

I feel really bad that my neighbour called the police, but I had previously discussed safety plans with her and she reacted in a way that I would have wanted her to. I feel so awful that I did it; my friend has offered to drive me to some woods out of random passer byers so I can scream and cry and frighten bunnies and release my tension in a more constructive and less socially inaapropriate way

OP posts:
AgeingGrace · 26/02/2011 00:11

I am so, so sorry for all your strain, tiredness and fear, notjust. Not surprised you lost it (just the once! You are strong) and am pleased your neighbour called the cops, as this gave you reason to talk to the police who confirmed your instincts.

YOUR INSTINCTS ARE RELIABLE. It sounds as though they're having to fight against habit and conditioning, in which you'd automatically turn to DS's father for parenting support. Please, please realise that this urge is damaging and dangerous to both of you. You have the word of at least two experts, your own emotional antennae and your common sense. Find alternative support.

Are you afraid/ashamed to ask for help? Would your mum take a bit more of the strain for you? Has your WA support worker got any ideas? Will your employers give you some compassionate leave? Please explore all avenues - you've come too far to go backwards now, out of mere tiredenss.

Wishing you more courage, support and a few strokes of luck.
Don't trust him, don't make excuses for him, don't think about him when you could be thinking about your own, safer, happier future with DS. x

AgeingGrace · 26/02/2011 00:13

x-post :)

mathanxiety · 26/02/2011 06:17

You are so very brave, and your insight here is very clear. I agree with Grace that it is very important for you to find some other source of support right now. What could your neighbour do for you, or your family, besides the sister you mentioned? Is there a church nearby that could offer some respite for you or put you in touch with someone who does babysitting or home help? WA may be able to point you in the right direction too.

PeterAndreForPM · 26/02/2011 13:11

You desperately need more "practical" support with your daily life

Your counsellor and Women's Aid etc are fabulous but they are not there at 2am are they ?

This problem, like you said, is in danger of making you relax your boundaries wrt to letting him back in

It is not appropriate that he sleeps at your house, sofa or no sofa

Please reach out for more practical help...baby sitting so you get a break, offer to have another child in return (it's often no more work to have more than one, but great to get a complete break)

I think you must speak to SS to explain how close you actually are to letting him back in your life because of your pain and mental exhaustion

hey have said in the past, they would start proceedings if that were the case yes ? You must be upfront with them and do everything in your power to prevent that happening

dittany · 26/02/2011 13:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PeterAndreForPM · 26/02/2011 14:45

reach out to your friends and family to get a break from dc if only for a couple of hours

look on MN local for babysitting circles

pay a local teenager a few pounds for a couple of hours during the daytime

rely on him too much, for practical then the inevitable emotional support, you are doomed to get back into old habits

you know that can never work x

itsnotjustaslap · 27/02/2011 00:04

Thank you Dittany, PeterAndre, Grace, & Math; I really appreciate your support.

I will do everything I can to get more, and consistant support when things get tough and avoid dependence on my husband; not only does it make emotional support more inevitable PeterAndre but he is quite crap really when it comes to reliability.

I feel a bit better today; I have started waking my son just as I go to bed - just enough for him to make his eyes open a little and miracle of miracles it seems to be working on disrupting his sleep cycles enough to not go into the hours of night terrors. Really hope this has cracked it, although it is too soon to judge.

Unfortunately I am mildly unwell with whatever my son has just had but it hasn't been enough to stop me and my ds having a good and productive day together; mainly him washing many pebbles and one snail in pools of water in the garden, and then strategically inserting cheerios into the DVD player. It's good to have a hobby.

A little perhaps alarmingly I googled some stuff re personality traits re my husband that has slightly disturbed me; he comes out as very high (almost as high as possible) for psychopathic traits. I'm not hysterical about this; I do know that often very sucessful people would fit the criteria for psycopathy; it may even be an explanation of why they are so sucessful. It doesn't mean that they will actually become criminal or violent.

It does however, mean that on many levels they have the emotional maturity of a child. My toddler son would be labelled as a psychopath right now; the extreme narcisism, lack of remorse, inability to empathise, lack of long term goals etc; however this is allowed really as he is not even two Smile

I had a lovely, lovely dream last night and dreamt that Prof Brian Cox had asked me out on a date. I don't especially have a crush on him, but he just comes across as generally kind and decent, and normal. In my dream I was very much excited by the prospect of a normal date, however, very annoyingly nasal congestion and my snoring woke me up at this point. Arse!

Part of me just longs for a normal relationship. What I had was off the 'normal' spectrum.

OP posts:
PeterAndreForPM · 27/02/2011 00:13

You sound a bit better < phew >

Brian Cox does seem lovely, and manly and above all, kind

You will find that in the future, I promise you

but not yet, and probably not for a good while, but you will

you need to heal from this relationship first

not-quite-2yo's are monumentally hard work, and I say that after having two of them many years ago but boy do I remember how hard it was

it gets better though, it really does, you can't see it yet because you are right in the thick of it

being a single parent of a 2yo is relentless, especially when they are poorly...but over the next couple of years it will slowly get easier

hang on to that, and carry on doing the little stuff with him, the nice stuff, the mindless stuff, thankfully you don't have to fully enagage your brain for him to love your company right now Smile

the sleeping thing will improve, honestly

you are learning some frightening things about your boy's father, use that to strengthen your resolve in keeping him out of your life as nothing more than that, your child's father

you need have no more emotional connection than that

AgeingGrace · 27/02/2011 00:14

Wha-hay! Sense of humour! Good to see it :) :)

(Aside of everything else, humour really helps to handle one's observations of a psychopath at close quarters.)

Sleep well, notjust. Prof Cox tonight and some good luck tomorrow. x

itsnotjustaslap · 28/02/2011 23:48

Thanks PeterAndre and Grace. I have recovered my sense of humour in as much as it can only be gallows humour given the circumstances. It actually feels far less serious to me than it probably should - probably because I feel like I've emotionally insulated myself from the real shock that I've married someone entirely different from the person I believed I fell in love with.

He was my first partner. I lost my virginity to him (not all that long ago Blush). It meant a big deal for me to wait which he knew. I've never, ever admitted this to anyone else but after losing my virginity he got up casually, dressed and left, saying that he was worried about his mother as she was going out that night (he lived with her). I remember putting my coat on and going to the front door thinking wtf is going on here? I had just given up something that meant so much to me and the least I expected was that he would lie next to me all night and hold me.

It honestly was the worst incident in my life. As someone who was brought up very religious, I felt physically sick and shamed that he seemed to have just viewed me as a one night stand (we had waited 5 months) to go back to his mother Shock.

He honestly didn't understand why I was upset. He asked why i was upset; I was beyond tears and shouted at him not to worry people had treated me worse. He did eventually come back to stay the night after checking his mum; but he made it clear he would have preferred to be with his mum. I knew that night I had made a mistake but foolishly thought that by having sex with him I needed to validate this relationship in my own head.

Yesterday he fucked up once again. We were meant to have a family roast dinner (as we had never had once for months as he could not be arsed to either cook or help with looking after our son). He was meant to take my son for a walk so I could actually take a relaxing bath without listening out to a child's wails.

We came in from shopping and he announced that he couldn't understand a decision made by a member of my family about keeping something secret, even to close family; because he himself would never, ever choose to keep that from his mother.

I stated that I disagreed; each to their own; it was not my decision to make etc. He wanted to know why, why i believed this. How wrong this was. Why couldn't I just say to him that I agreed. He said he felt 'too tired' to take our son for a walk (ffs who has been looking after him and doing everything for the last month)

He was angry. He ranted on for 45 minutes. He was like a broken record. He was raising his voice. In front of our son - again. For 44 minutes I thought it was my fault for disagreeing with him. In the next minute I had a flash of insight and realised that this was again domestic violence / emotional abuse and yet another example of how he disrespects boundaries.

Three simple things he just couldn't do; take my son for a walk, stop talking about a topic / take a break when I request it / arguing / ranting in front of my ds.

I picked up my ds and told my husband that he had disrespected me and harmed our son. I asked him to leave the house immediately. He begged for another chance and refused to leave. I picked up my ds and said that if he refused to leave, I would instead. I picked up my keys; he tried to prevent me from leaving by blocking my way. I got out the house where he followed me to my car. I told him to leave me alone. When I got in the driver side he was opening the passenger door and trying to sit in it. I told him that he was harrassing me and I would call the police. I locked the car from the inside. He was knocking my window begging me to wind it down and speak. He then got into his car and drove off to his mothers. I then drove to my mum's because I didn't (rightly) believe that he would return to the house.

I was so angry with him. I had an alright evening with my mum even though I was very, very pissed off that he is incapable of change. He left a begging message with my mum and a very long voicemail to my phone crying, begging. That he didn't know why he did what he did. That he needed help. That he needed me to call him. That he wouldn't do it again. All BS.

Eventually I returned to the house as it was my son's bedtime. I expected him to have respected my wishes and left, but no, when I got in he was in the bath. I ordered him to leave, but it took about 45 minutes for him to finish a leisurely bath and go. He acted like nothing had happened. As if he had literally forgotten how he cried, ranted, begged my forgiveness etc.

I did more reading of psychopathy again last night. It was very insightful. Intelligent psychopaths are rare, but many people may know one. They are superficially charming but find it impossible to put themselves in another's place. They are in a sense morally bankrupt; it's not as if they are immoral; just amoral.

One website likened a psychopath to a speeding car that wreaks havoc in its wake. So much of what i read was true; yes psychopaths can love spouses and children and are hurt when they leave them. But their love is superficial and people are means to an end to them. My husband always lacked guilt - for anything. He used to tell me I worried far too much and was guilty about everything. But he never, ever seemed to have that guilty little voice in our head that we call conscience. Because in his eyes, he was never wrong, and anything that he had done could be justified.

I don't feel I married a monster. He is just a damaged individual. A lot of information suggests that psychopaths just are: they cannot help that they think differently and empathy or guilt are just alien emotions.

I saw him today; we got on tolerably well. Occasionally I see flickers of the charming and superfically caring person I thought he was, but my instincts are still screaming at me. I think I'll take their advice.

OP posts:
dittany · 01/03/2011 09:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dittany · 01/03/2011 09:08

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PeterAndreForPM · 01/03/2011 09:10

That he wouldn't do it again. All BS.

This is him. In a nutshell.

I think it is time to stop doing family things with him. You are right, he is damaging your son, and damaging you be showing tiny glimpses of a decent man. He isn't a decent man. The glimpses of Ok'ness are not the real him. The nastiness and abuse is the real him

Stop trying to do normal things. This isn't a normal situation, and he isn't a normal man with normal emtional reserves.

He is going to hurt you physically one day, probably quite soon Sad

You must detach.

dittany · 01/03/2011 09:16

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Buda · 01/03/2011 09:32

I have just read this thread and was thinking you are so amazing and strong and well done for leaving and then getting him out. But then I see you are still hankering after the family life with him. Why did you want a family roast dinner with him? You are separated. NOT family. By doing family stuff with him you are letting him think you don't mean any of the talk about being finished with him. I think you are actually sending him mixed messages.

Yes he should see your son. But not with you. After this last incident I would be going for supervised contact at a contact centre. He talked the talk with the Relate counsellor about damaging your son but then goes and does it again! He may be capable of changing (although I doubt it) but it won't happen overnight. It will take months and more likely years for him to accept that he needs to change and the reality is that he probably doesn't feel he needs to change. His behaviour is fine by his criteria. It's everyone else that has a problem with it.

Can you arrange for you mother to take your DS one night a week so that you get a guaranteed full nights sleep once a week? And carry on with trying to deal with the night terrors. Hopefully with the passing of time your DS will become less stressed and they will pass. Get both of you a good vitamin supplement - Vivioptal is good and they do one for children - my DS loves it. It will hopefully help ward of some of the bugs around and also help you both with tiredness and energy which may help with sleep patterns.

PeterAndreForPM · 01/03/2011 10:02

Love, do you think your son's continuing unsettled behaviour could be because he is still being exposed to the tense and simmeringly-violent attitude this man is showing towards you ?

no more "family dinners"

no more opportunities for this man to abuse you in front of your son

it has to stop

SpringchickenGoldBrass · 01/03/2011 10:12

Honestly you need to bar this man from your house and cut all contact between him and you. Everyone is warning you how dangerous he is. ONe of the most chilling things is him saying that you are 'so sexy he can;t control himself.'
Please hear that. It is a clear threat that he is going to rape you.

Littlefish · 01/03/2011 10:18

You need to cut all contact with him.

Arrange for contact with your son to be done through a third party.

You are not a "happy family". In fact, you are not even a family any more. Therefore, you do not have to, and should not be doing anything together as a family. All it will do is confuse your son, and give your exh the idea that he still has an opportunity to re-kindle the abusive relationship.

I completely agree with PeterAndre's first sentence.

Anniegetyourgun · 01/03/2011 10:22

Wait, no, look, wtf are you doing having "family dinner" with the man who did to you what you described in your OP - the man charged by police - the one Social Services are keeping an eye on? Going shopping with him like a normal couple? Letting the bugger back into your house, which he then refuses to leave? You know he's dangerous. You were tired and desperate for support, but he doesn't give you support, he gives you grief. He is the very, very last person on earth you need help from. And you can't help him either. Feel sorry for him by all means, but like a tiger in the zoo; be sorry for it as it paces in its cage, but for heaven's sake don't invite it home because tigers don't know how to behave. And nor do psychopaths.

lookingfoxy · 01/03/2011 10:27

Is he still living in the house?
If not, then he shouldn't be there.
If he wants to see ds, then it should be supervised access elsewhere, set dates, times and stick to them.
You need to stop this, there is no boundaries.

PeterAndreForPM · 01/03/2011 10:29

You really need to listen to us

You should have listened to us, the police, social services and Womens Aid the first time

you sound lovely but you are not listening

you are acting like this horror is happeneing to someone else, and you are the impassive bystander

love, get real this man is going to hurt you physically very soon, or your son

boxingHelena · 01/03/2011 10:49

just wanted to acknowledge I have been following this thread dear OP
It pains me to see that you still hold some unreasonable and totally deluded hope at "normal" family life within this relationship
Please do listen to the great advice you are getting on here.
Your phrase
I don't feel I married a monster. He is just a damaged individual. A lot of information suggests that psychopaths just are: they cannot help that they think differently and empathy or guilt are just alien emotions.
sends chills down my spine
whatever made him damaged fact is the damage he can do you and your son is serious! and even if you never saw him again from today it will take you ages before it will be truly over and you will fell a new person (or your old self)
Start cutting your losses today, for you and you dc sake

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