Can a man have a temper without it being 'abuse'?

[Polaris]

Can a man have a bad temper without his temper being abusive?

My DH has one. I suppose it is abusive because it's only ever aimed at me. But, he's not manipulative or controlling, so it's just a temper then, isn't it?

Sorry to LOL Cest, but that's made me chuckle.

The problem is I think that in order to make you stay people will throw all the worst case scenarios at you to make you stay.

It's what the people around me are doing.

Nickname - Just so I know I have said my piece I think. He has to know that this is it. That I actually don't love him and there's no coming back from that.

Then all the crap can be thrown from that understanding.

At the moment, he'll think the same thing will happen where we have a row about it and make up. Coz that's what people do ain't it?

I have to let him know what I truely think and feel and not just give him the toned down 'there might still be some hope' version.

Fine. But don't go into the meeting expecting closure from him. He's not going to believe that you're leaving until you've left. In a way, it doesn't matter what he thinks about it. He doesn't get to dictate that you must stay in a relationship with him.

Hi Polaris my nan was in a physically abusive relationship as a result my mother also got into a physically abusive relationship. In a effort to escape the life at home when I was 13 I got into a relationship with a older man who was just like you DP great around others but when we were alone he accused me of cheating argued when I went to see friends and family and told me I was fat, he also was very funny about cleaning.

I saw nothing wrong with this and thought he would get better he didn't and became physically abusive once he had broken my confidance and I no longer went out. This ended with him raping me to control me and make me pg. I took all this until he beat me when I was pg and then I realised I was doing the same as my mum had done to me and what you are doing to your DC.

My mum also left my dad later that year and for the first time in years I didnt hate her. 10 years on she is much happier.

Do you really want to eisk your DD ending up the same I accepted a much more abusive relationship than my mum, and contrary to popular belief I was not blind and deaf I saw and heard everything. He will change he will get worse.

polaris, you ask - is it okay to leave 'just' because you are unhappy. Yes, it certainly is.
IN fact, it's important - it's your life and you deserve to be happy - you need to be a role model for your children - showing them that they can live the life they want to live.

I agree it's really difficult that your mother is not supportive - so you are effectively breaking up with two people by walking away from this marriage. But remember - it's him that has broken the marriage vows and is failing to be a good husband.

The saddest post you wrote was where you said you felt guilty because his behaviour is not his fault. This is completely untrue. Firstly - the way he behaves is completely his responsibility - he knows exactly how to behave with other people. He is an adult and you have told him many times that you find his behaviour upsetting and unacceptable.

Secondly - if he is so unbelievably emotionally backward that he has no idea that his behaviour is upsetting, cruel or unkind (which he does by the way..but just for the sake of this argument) - then why on earth would you stay with someone like that?!

You are not his carer or doctor - you have to protect yourself first and foremost and your children.

You will look back and see that it was his choice to behave like this - but for now, just concentrate on getting out. I would advise you to be careful and have an exit plan before you tell him its over to be honest. He may not go easily.

Polaris: Remember you don't need his permission to leave him. It's his fault you are dumping his sorry arse.
It might be better to make a practical exit plan before telling him he's dumped. He will probably boohoo and promise to change, just as he usually does, but there is a possibility, if he detects that you mean it, that he will become aggressive. Abusive men are at their most dangerous when their control is threatened. If there have ever been any incidents of physical violence in the past, especially if they have been triggered by you standing up to him then skip the confrontation scene where you tell him what a knob and a bully and a pathetic excuse for a man he is. Even though it's all true, he won't hear it or accept it and he may attack you.

Right, I need to be careful now as I don't want to disclose too many details that may reveal who I am.

So we talked last night. It is quite obvious he's not going to 'let' me go. It was a calm discussion, but mainly about his feelings and what we should do - in his view.

He wanted to know if my wanting to leave is because I've got someone else (he has got a right to mistrust me - I admitted to him that I had a six month emotional affair last year) but can't see that the whole mess is as a result of his behaviour.

It's as if I'm his little puppet. He piled on the love declarations - and it made me uneasy to think that he 'needs' me as much as he does.

It occured to me that he doesn't have any close, meaningful relationships with anyone other than with me. He's quite solitary, although when he was younger used to be out in the pubs all the time. It's obvious he's on a downer - like he's totally insecure and relies on our relationshyip for validity.

I would be frightened of his reaction to a break up I have to say. I'm pretty sure he won't take it rationally. He says he's going to make sure we're the happiest family there is and he'll prove to me that he does deserve me. He says he's been moody because he hasn't coped with the emotional affair.

I can't blame him for being cut up about that. What I did was awful, but he can't see that it happened as a result of me being so miserable because of being trapped in a relationship with him.

I went to bed last night feeling quite ill at ease.

When I told him about the emotional affair last year he said that I didn't feel like his Polaris anymore. That stuck in my mind because I'd never considered myself as 'his', although I suppose that could be considered sweet in a your mine and I'm yours type of way.

It's obvious he thinks he has some sort of ownership rights over me. Although he did say that if it doesn't work out in a few months' time then he'd understand me wanting to go. That was said fleetingly.

Thoughts??

I just wanted to say here is another one who has SAVED her children.

We have been happier than in years since myself and the kids left him.

Also this is a very dangerous time potentially.

Many women notice a serious deterioration in his behaviour once he realises this may be the end.
Be careful!

Mine has pulled the 'threatening suicide' recently.
Yet when I expressed concern for when the kids had contact with him, he said he was fine and back at work

Thanks Dittany, you've been great. I will get that book - I remembered it last night before I went to sleep.

The sex issue used to be a problem. A few years back we went for a year without it! I hated the thought of it. I put it down to new mum syndrome. Now, things are better. I have to say he never EVER uses it as a weapon of any kind and never pressures me. In fact he's been almost too patient about long periods of abstention in the past.

Theyremy - I am worried. It feels as if it's all going a bit psycho. Maybe I'm looking at it through new eyes.

The thing is re the emotional affair, he called the OM a cunt and when I asked why he hates him so much and not me (although I've explained time and time again that it was him who called time on it and me who chased it) - he says he thinks I made a mistake - nothing more.

He thinks I'm protecting the OM, when all I'm doing is telling him the truth.

My thoughts are that this was predictable. I said yesterday that he would make the conversation about his needs.

You're right, he's not going to give you permission to go. That does NOT mean you should stay. Women's Aid will help you come up with an exit plan.

I believe that men who behave like this to us, and actually think they do no wrong - are actually mentally ill in some way - personality disorder, whatever.

I definitely slept better once I told him I was divorcing him, it was OVER, AND MYSELF AND THE KIDS WENT TO LIVE AT MY DADS HOUSE.

I would not have felt at all comfy being near him.

Look after yourselves, seriously. x

You don't actually have to engage in conversation with him.

People like this usually twist what you say anyway, so there's no point.

You don't need his permission to leave him. YOU get to choose whether you stay or go, not him.

The problem when dealing with people like this is that you have to be whiter-than-white, a totally perfect human being otherwise they do what your h did last night and turn it all around to YOU and your faults.

You see they all work to a script and they all react the same way. Can you not see that everyone on here who has had experience of these people are telling you what will happen next? that is because we KNOW what he will do and say next!!

You can never win, and he will never change. And you are damaging your children. You have to become a hard person to get yourself out from under his influence.

The other thing that I think is important is that YOU may see the tears and the 'sorry' bits of his behaviour, which are what keep you hooked in to him, but your children will not see this. I remember years ago asking my mother why she didn't just leave my nasty father, and she said 'well he is always sorry afterwards'.

That made me feel sick to my stomach actually, and before I even knew anything about cycles of abuse or NPD and the like, I knew it was wrong.

You are treating this man as though he is a normal human being with normal feelings. He has shown previously that he has no intention of changing, and indeed why should he?

My exH was the same, then I left and and he got the shock of his life. He got an even bigger shock from the judge, who saw his arrogant and nasty ways. He hasn't learnt anything from even that though, he is still a nasty bastard.

And I would just like to add to this...re your comments about 'broken families ' and their responsibility for the world's troubles...

Yesterday I had one of the very best days of my life...due to

a) my older DC succeeding spectacularly in her sport after broken limbs and other problems, and YEARS of hard work, and the lack of interest and indeed hostility from her father over this

b) my younger DC getting one of the highest scores IN THE WORLD for a professional pre-university entrance exam he took

This would NEVER have happened if I was still with our abuser.

Congrats to your DCs, GaIG!

Thankyou so much Nickname. I just feel overcome with emotion about it all.

Hiya Icy,

Wow - they certainly are children to be proud of.

I realise that people who do look down their noses at single families are complete twats that don't need to be bothered with - and not to be taken notice of.

My view on mothers who bring up children alone are quite profound actually. I think marriage is a modern day institution that creates a sense of order in society, but often doesn't represent individuals well - especially women.

Years before the unity of marriage was invented, and we were organised in tribes rather than families, child caring was shared out among the women. It was likely that a child would not have any relationship with their father - who could be off fighting or hunting most of the time - and had many 'mothers' who loved and cared for them.

Of course with the population it is today, that would not work. But naturally, it is a far more stable, balanced and healthy method of raising children.

I also think that, when marriage came into force 2000 years ago, mortality was so hight that you could hardly expect to have a partnership that extended a few years. Now, we are expected to muddle along in unhappy relationships for sixty years or more!

No, I don't feel at all ashamed to be facing single mother-dom, in fact I will find it refreshing I think. BUT of course the world today only celebrates the nuclear family and so single parents are fighting against the tide.

That stigma will have some affect on my DCs -arguably not as much as having a controlling parent will - but there will be concequences whatever I do. I just need to be prepared for the concequences so that when my DD and DS want to know why mummy and daddy aren't together anymore like their friend's parents are, I will be able to look them in the eye knowing they are in the right place.

Sorry to ramble.

It feels as if it's all going a bit psycho. Maybe I'm looking at it through new eyes.

You're right, lovely, that's what's happening. You're beginning to see who he really is and how your marriage really works. Controlling people rely on others' assumption that they're normal people, with normal feelings, to retain control over them. How many times have you acted on the basis that, as Dittany says, you're a mutually-supportive team - only to find that he turned it against you? (To his perceived advantage.)

Such people have faulty 'wiring' and I think you will begin to notice it more in your H.

Like the others, I urge you to box clever. Go carefully, making good plans and securing your support. Pretend to be 'good Polaris' if you need extra time.

Did you read the Bancroft book? It really does help you get a fix on things.

Also, you'll feel better if you can find some 'normal' people, with normal human values, to confide in. Try gently confiding in a few friends - if they're not able to understand they will let you know by not 'hearing' what you say or by dismissing it. But some will surprise you.

You're right in everything you said above about the family unit in our culture. You have a lot of conflicting feelings to process now: go ahead :)

GIG! Congrats to both DCS!! You damn well deserve to be proud :)

Thanks so much Grace. I feel very weepy today.

I think I have got a better understanding now of what I'm dealing with.

It's been a very intense couple of days and my head's swimming a bit.

What I'm going to do is take a mental break from it for a while now and aim to get some normality back into life. I'm going to observe him with the benefit of my new insight, wait for the Lundy book to come, read that and digest it before planning any action.

Overall, the thing that I'm focusing on now is his perceived ownership of me - as I think the anger will disperse for the foreseeable future (he has gone for months and months without blazing up in the past, when he thinks I'm about to leave him). I'm going to do my best to spot the little, sublte nuances. What I need to gauge is just how ingrained this behaviour has become and how we all accept it.

Thanks to you all for helping me with this. I know for some of you it must have been difficult to make me see sense, but you are all so much futher down the road than I am. It's a lot to take in.

Love, Polaris xxxx