Can a man have a temper without it being 'abuse'?

[Polaris]

Can a man have a bad temper without his temper being abusive?

My DH has one. I suppose it is abusive because it's only ever aimed at me. But, he's not manipulative or controlling, so it's just a temper then, isn't it?

I've had a quick look at some of your older posts.

You haven't been happy for a long long time.

It might be valuable to go back and have a read at how you view things.

What do you mean when you say that the man from Respect thought you had a problem? That it was your fault? Or that your H is a problem that you need to solve?

Let's be clear - your H is an abusive arse and you need to get the DCs and you away from him.

Polaris, your friends and neighbours will not look down on you for leaving this man (or indeed forcing him out of the family home, which you might be able to do as an alternative to uprooting yourself; courts regard the family home as the children's home and that they have the right to live in it without the presence of an abusive man). The worst thing they will say is 'What took you so long?' They've seen him shout and you and bully you, remember. They probably all despise him.

Even my little gentle DOGS are better since we left.

Who the hell are Respect? They deserve no respect if they are telling you that you have a problem.

In fact, you do have a problem. Not necessarily right now, but your children will be teenagers soon, and will start rebelling against their fathers controlling ways. What are you going to do then? Side with him in order to have an easy life?

Fair enough you may well be prepared to put up and shut up in order to (a) not provide your mother's friends with something to gossip about and (b) not be part of a 'broken home' but why subject your children to this life of misery?

every time I read another thread where a woman is questioning whether her DH/DP is abusive or just a bit 'bad tempered' I want to shout.. if you're asking the answers probably YES and STOP SHOULDERING THE BLAME AND RESPONSIBILITY FOR A SPINELESS BULLY.

[shouty emoticon]

Have just googled it - Respect is an organisation aiming to eradicate DV by working with the prepetrators of DV while they are still in the home environment.

www.respect.uk.net/

And I am sure that your DH knows what he is up to.

He waited until your male friend was away from the table before he started laying into you?

He knows that a real man would look down on him for being such a vile bully.

Respect's literature is making me really mad the more I read it:

"A four year longitudinal follow-up evaluation of DVPPs [DV perpetrators] in the USA showed a clear de-escalation of re-assault and other abuse over time, with the vast majority of men reaching sustained nonviolence. At 30 months after DVPP intake, 80% of the men had not been violent to their partners in the previous year, and at 48 months, 90% had not been violent in the previous year."

So let's make sure I've got this right. After 30 months in the programme, 20% are still being violent towards their partners. And 80% haven't been violent in the past 12 months - so presumably a large number were still violent for the first 18 months of the programme.

Sounds fine for the DVPP - not so great for the partner and DCs....

indeed.

To be honest having been on the recieving end of a few fists during my childhood, I would say that perpetrators of domestic abuse deserve no damn respect.

They may as well have called that website enablers.com.

There are ususally a few scathing MN comments flying around about the 'Leave Him!' brigade on this topic. I would say that most of the people who do generally have a zero-tolerance view on domestic violence - whether physical or emotional - have been on the recieving end of abuse and know what they are talking about, and that 99% of the time abusers cannot or will not change.

Read through your posts.

You are constantly putting the blame on yourself.

It is not your fault. It is his.

Take your life in your hands and make changes. For yourself and your DC.

Never mind what anyone thinks.

You might meet another prick. You might however meet a really lovely, caring guy who loves you as you are and treats you well.

You won't know until you make the break.

And after 4 years - 4 years - 10% are still violent.

Can you imagine how bloody awful the victim would feel after going through that charade of a programme and the abuser was still dishing it out?

Cinnabar, that's 10% of partners still going "But he loves us really, and he's on this program, he's doing his best ..." as they and their children lose even more confidence

I work in mental health and have a little card stuck to my computer from www.freedomprogramme.co.uk
It says
Mr Right (A non abusive man)
is cheerful
consistent
supportive
tells you you look good
Uses your nam
Trusts you
Trusts your judgment
Welcomes your friends & Family
Encourages you to be independent
Supports your learning, career etc
Admits to being wrong
Is a responsible parent
Is an equal parent
Does his share of the housework
Shares financial responsibility
Accepts that you have a right to say 'no' to sex
takes responsibility for his own well-being and happiness
in short...behaves like a reasonable human being

Mr Wrong (An abusive man)
Shouts
Sulks
Smashes things
Glares
Calls you names
Makes you feel ugly and worthless
Cuts you off from your frineds
Stops you working
Never admits he is wrong
Turns the children against you
Uses the children to control you
Never does his share of the housework
Never looks after the children
Expects sex on demand
Controls the money
Threatens or heedles you to get his own way
Seduces your friends/sister/anyone
Expects you to be responsible for his well-being
Blames you, drink, drugs etc.

Re: this last point, do you think he may be an alcoholic? An alcoholic would fail on many of the 'Mr Right' points by default.
My dh is one and he scores pretty badly I must say. I really appreciate where you are coming from and the dilemma you are in. I know how hard it is to leave and if things are good 75% of the time and you have financial stability it is not easy to leave, whatever anyone says to you. I am convinced that my ds would resent me enormously and blame me entirely if I did, though dd is probably more or less ambivalent.

Only you can decide. Some couselling for yourself or looking at some of these websites may help you to see things straight.

Respect has a phoneline for perpetrators of DV, and a separate phone line for male victims of DV. No phone line for female victims of DV.

OP - I really, really think these are not the right people for you to be talking to.

I have a DH with conduct issues. The difference is, he has conduct issues with everyone, not just a select few, and he's actively working towards making himself better in a way that is visible to his children and other family.

The onus is on your DH to take responsibility for ameliorating unacceptable behaviour. If he can't take that responsibility on, you need to get your children away from that kind of role model. For role model he is, teaching your sons how wives and girlfriends are to be treated and your daughters how their husbands and boyfriends should treat them.

It's not a matter of "breaking" your home. Something fundamental is already broken here. You need to do your best to stop any further damage from occurring.

Polaris
My husband has a temper and it can flare unreasonably. I always pulled him up on it but found myself modifying my own behaviour - like you I am hypersensitive to moods. I wouldnt have called it abuse but it wasnt pleasant and i was not willing to put up with it.
After a couple of shouting incidents and one of calling me a bitch, we had a major talk where I said I wasnt willing to live with someone who acted like this. He could also subliminally make me aware that he didnt want to spend time with my family, that changed in that I told him to get lost, we now have regular dinners etc with family. I also shouted back and stood up to him. He never did it again. Yes he loses his temper but now knows the triggers and leaves the room and goes for a run etc so its taken out on the pavement - so he is dealing with it.

He would never have shouted at me in front of other people though and I wouldnt want that as an example for my DD. I do all the normal things that can start arguments - give out about housework, not done, done wrong etc etc and dont worry about the reaction.

You should feel the same and if you cant get there with your husband then you probably shouldnt be with him

I know I must seem pretty pathetic to some of you. I'm just worried I'm making more of it than it is.

I am being emotionally abused I know that. We do, however, also have good times - there is plenty of good in our household too.

That's not grasping at straws. I mean, I'd expect to go away for a two week holiday and have a good time. BUT I know me and my mum will be walking on egg shells when she visits next week.

Plus, I'm not that bad a mum that I'd stand by and have my kids be frightened at him. I casually asked my DD if she though DD shouts a lot and she just looked puzzled and said 'no, why do you ask?'

Apart from the odd frosty moment that goes over their heads, they do adore him. It's just that he uses his voice in a manner that really intimidates just me and adopts sort of passive/aggressive behaviour that has us sometimes walking on egg shells.

I did say it's 20% of the time, maybe a bit less. That still means the vast majority of the time he is a nice person. He doesn't stop me seeing my friends or make me feel ugly - quite the opposite - he's just volatile when he thinks he's being criticised.

I'm so divided by this, and I think it comes across (understatement of the year). The tantrums are just not regular enough to make us all unhappy, but they have happened and will happen again.

I dunno, I still think it's possible it'd can't help blaming myself for not just getting on with it. I mean, that friend that I was in the restaurant with, I've seen her getting drunk and properly laying into her DH once.

Out of that list above he is the proud owner of eight traits from the top list and seven in the bottom. But then I would say I am most of the top and none of the bottom.

So he's a twat.

Oh BTW Repect man said I have a problem with DH - in that DH is causing me a problem.

They are trying to help men who want to change, change.

Of course he's nice 80% of the time - if they were foul all the time then no-one would be with them. They need to give you just enough to keep you trapped.

And what on earth makes you think that your H is even trying to change?

And if he does want to change he can fuck off and do it somewhere else.

seems to me like it has only really just occurred to you that you might be being abused and could do something about it, and you posted on here and wham everyone says it as it is and it has shocked you and now you are trying to back track a little, i know i have been there as have many many people on here, IMO you need time to think about this and get your head around it, but in the back of your mind you know you have to face it head on and you are frightened by the fallout from it, we all were/are, it scared the shit out of me to begin with, but being a single parent isn't always the horror we are lead to believe, it seems you already feel that your kids will go off the rails as you said they get blamed for everything but not all kids from single parents end up on drugs or in jail! take time to get advice and do some research, you don't always have to leave your home, see a solicitor and talk to cab etc and have time to come to terms with your situation, it took me almost a year from when i realised i didn't love, respect, or even like my ex to the day i officially ended it in the courts, but by the time that happened i had found a good solicitor saved a bit of money and had put plans in place to try to ease the transition as smooth as poss for my dc, you dont have to spend the rest of your life being shouted at and humiliated, or one day even hit!

Your DD won't think he shouts too much, because to her it is normal. That's the problem. If he isn't bullying your DC, it's in the post. Because one day they'll stick up for you, and he really won't like that.

Thanks Susie,
That is very observant. It does feel as if things have run away a bit this afternoon and I want to keep a sense of perspective. I'm actually not really at all afraid about being without him - in fact it's one of my favourite fantasies sometimes. I also don't want to find another man - I'd be quite happy without one, but I know what it's like and I know that dating will come up sooner or later. People don't stay single for long really do they?

But I am really concerend about the DCs. I don't actually think they are being at all negatively impacted by his behaviour. I am VERY clever at deflating situations before they arise, so often there is no big row to speak of. In fact, thing seem pretty good from the outset, but that's ALL because of me and because I know how to keep things rosy.

So, I can keep it from them quite succesfully, I'm just gauging if that is fair on me or if it might become an issue in the future. I won't know that will I?

Plus I'm finding myself attracted to other men, which of course is a symptom of a sustained, unhappy marriage. While this is not a problem now, it could of course be in the future if I dropped my guard for a minute and ended up falling for someone else. It almost happened over a year ago nearly and the harm was near-catastrophic.

So, I believe I can swerve agro so that my DCs are protected from it and are able to enjoy a happy family life, so long as I forfeit my chances of having a good relationship. DH's temper might become an issue to them in the future - it might not, just like we might be better off without him, but might not.

So I'm just going around and around - there are no answers. If I provoked him maybe he'll hit me and then I'll have my conclusion. What a thing to think eh?

Good point Chickens. I can see that happening. Just like my mum gets it when she sticks up for me - it could all get directed at DD. Never thought of it like that.