who pays on the first couple of dates?

[Anais53]

When you're on dates no. 1 and 2, do you expect the guy to offer to pay? Be it just a drink or a meal?

Had date no. 2 with someone nice last night, date no.1 we'd just been to the pub and shared the rounds, then last night out for a meal. When it came to pay, he said "I'll get this one and then you can pay for the next one". I was mighty unimpressed, didn't say anything just nodded.

I'm all for paying my way and am financially independent but call me old-fashioned, I think it's nice if a guy wants to impress you right at the beginning and doesn't expect you to go dutch. Don't much feel like seeing him again now.

I returned to dating after the breakdown of a very long relationship (25 years).

The first woman I started going out with properly made it clear from the start she wanted to go 50:50. The first date was for drinks in a pub. I bought the first round- she insisted on buying the second, and so on.

When we started to go out for meals, concerts, etc., she had a say in where we went and paid half. She said she wouldn't go out with friends and expect them to pay for her and she didn't see why it should be any different with me. She told me she had friends who were terrible spongers, not only on men, but on their other friends if they got a chance, and she didn't approve of that behaviour. She also told me that she didn't like to feel financially obligated when she went out with men because some men have the attitude that that gives them an entitlement to sex, and that allowing a man to pay could give rise to confusion on this point.

I found her honesty wonderfully refreshing. I could have taken offence at the implication that I might be the kind of man who wanted to pick up the bill in return for sex, but that would have been ridiculous because she had no means of knowing one way or the other and was simply telling me where she stood on the matter.

We have become very good friends indeed and sometime lovers. As you might expect, she has confirmed herself to be a wonderfully scrupulous, principled and honest person. Times have changed and I think, on balance, for the better.

I'd like to know what sbg thinks. In the context of non monogamous/casual sex, how relevant is chivalry? If you are liberated from conventional sexual mores, should you become liberated from the accompanying stereotypes as well?
assuming this is still your viewpoint op

on an ideal date, the guy would offer to pay the bill, I would say: "No, let me pay, or at least go halves." he would then agree to either go halves, or for me to pay next time.

I like GOING halves. But I like him to offer to pay first.

I HATE men who say things like "As you women are all so feminist these days, I assume you want to go half".

It is all quite a delicate balance really.

swallowedAfly: She's kind, fun and easy to be with and I have enormous respect for her too! It could be argued, I think, that the greatest display of good manners is honesty. If you are like her then good for you!

Whoever has the most money? I have no clue who paid for our first date, but I knew I earned more than dp just from him telling me what he worked as, so if I suggested a night out and he seemed unsure, I would always say it's on me/I've just been paid etc. No biggie really. He is generous of spirit, kindness and cunnilingus, so I didn't mind.

And, I have always stood my round regardless of the company.

Andre, she sounds nice:) That's the sort of dynamic I'd like to have on a date, just two people being normal and honest with each other and having a good time, no playacting and weird rules.

sorry I meant ephiny not epiphany
table for two, saf?

swallowedAfly: Aw, thanks!

Ephiny: "that's the sort of dynamic I'd like to have on a date": Me too! Too many risks on all sides in playing 'let's pretend' imo. Also, once you've started, when do you stop? Maybe never?

same here saf!
are you single, andre?

But surely the "man always pays" thing harks back to the olden days, when they generally were the only ones with the cash. Personally I think the guy in the OP played it perfectly - I can see no reason why this caused a problem.

"Oh you feminists always want to go Dutch"...on the other hand.....

SAF [bgrin] The three c's - shall remember that. They are my 3 non-negotiables too.

ninah: I am single, but I'm not 'dating' other women than my friend. I've got too many other commitments, especially my kids, to want other intimate relationships. Also, it's something we've agreed between ourselves and I don't have any desire to change things. For one thing, it allows us to have sex without condoms, which is kinda nice. I trust her in this completely because she allowed me to get to know her and I know she's trustworthy. She trusts me because I am as well. If things change for her she'll tell me and I'll do the same for her. That's how it should be between grown-ups, I think. Whatever else happens, I want to try keep her friendship because she's a great woman.

OK here's what I think.

I really hate splitting the bill - it just seems so mean spirited, especially if you've had a nice night. The idea of working out who owes what just isn't a romantic end to a night.

If I was in a pub with a man, I would be very happy to pay for equal rounds. That's what I've grown up doing and it's normal behaviour, to me.

But I have been in the role of single mother for ten years. Those years have been really hard at times, both financially and emotionally. If I met someone I really liked, I would love to feel that he was - umm - not looking after me, because obviously I can do that for myself - but looking out for me, I suppose. And paying the bill in a restaurant gives that impression, I think.

I don't go for alpha males. I'm not impressed with a really expensive restaurant, unless it's a real treat, or with a fast car, etc. But I don't want to be the dominant partner, either. I don't want to be like his mum and pay for his dinner. I don't want the roles to be like that. After so many years of caring for others, it would be so nice to feel cared for.

It's not the money. I couldn't care less about that, though I don't want to meet someone with less money than me. I don't want more struggles ahead. If he couldn't afford the meal, I'm happy with a drink or the cinema. It's not the meal, either - god knows I've had enough of them! It's thinking that someone is putting you first and thinking of you and wanting to take care of you - that is a very attractive thing.

but if paying for a bloke's dinner makes you his mum, doesn't vice versa apply?
I'm a single parent too, and I really don't want to be 'taken care of'
we're all different I suppose and I'm quite glad I'm not dating
andre thanks for answering my flippant q in such a thoughtful way, it is good to know there are chaps around with similar views

The 3 Cs I'm good at those.

cooking
cunnilingus
and comedy.

Cunnilingus, that's paper folding right?

er not funny truck
so that leaves Cooking?