Cold feet about wedding, attracted to someone else

[MakingMyBed]

Hello - I am an avid reader of these forums and think the advice and discussions are fantastic. This is the first time I've posted as I would hugely appreciate some impartial/honest/blunt advice about a situation I can't tell anyone about in real life. I am braced for all responses.

I am in my mid-late 20s and engaged to a really lovely man. I have known him for four years and in that time he has been my best friend and constant support. When I met him I was in my early 20s and had already had several long-term relationships, some good, some appallingly bad/abusive. I've always been one to jump straight from one relationship into another - I've never been single. I was very vulnerable when I met my fiance - he was big, affectionate, reliable, kind, really looked after me.

However, I didn't fancy him and I felt we had no chemistry at all in bed etc. I never went through the butterflies in stomach, madly in love stage with him. But the combination of qualities I've described was very attractive to me and he pursued me so we ended up together.

I know it sounds weird that I continued with the relationship despite the spark not being there - but all I could think was where the spark (basically the lust/sex thing) had got me in the past (into crap relationships with horrible men and deluding myself that awful situations were fine). I actually felt more in control of this relationship because I wasn't so in love and was being more objective.

Over the years I have come to love my fiance more and more - he is wonderful and I've told myself that other people are too hung up on the spark and that I am sensible and lucky to be with such a nice man who will also make a brilliant dad.

But the spark is not there and as a result we have almost no sex life, much to his disappointment.

A couple of months ago, I met a friend of my brother's on a night out and there were mad sparks flying between us. And it wasn't just physical attraction but a feeling of utter connection. I went home feeling very unsettled by my feelings for this man. He befriended me on facebook and then started inviting me to the pub when he went with my brother. I enjoy socialising with my brother so was glad to be included. I genuinely couldn't go to the first couple of things he invited me to (was also a bit nervous of my own feelings), and then last week I made it down to the pub. My fiance came too and my fiance and this other man got on like a house on fire - they chatted all night and I was thrilled, as it took the focus off my silly feelings for this other guy and we all had a great night.

This man then organised another night out with the same people. Through no one's intention, it was a night that I was free but my fiance wasn't - in fact my fiance was out of town. At the end of the night this man couldn't get home. He was talking about getting a very expensive taxi so I said he was welcome to my sofabed. I don't think this was sensible but at the time it seemed to be. When we got back to my flat we ended up having a few more drinks and talking until the small hours about everything, just getting to know each other. We must have been quite drunk cos somehow we ended up acknowledging this amazing spark between us. At this point we both felt very out of control, that we'd crossed a line and that it was wrong for him to stay, so we hugged and then he got a (hideously expensive) taxi home.

What do you think I should do now? My wedding is arranged for this summer. Thanks for reading and sorry it's so long.

Thumbdabwitch I think you have a career in counselling/psychotherapy!

Unless you already have one! :)

That didn't make sense - I meant you COULD have one, if you didn't already!

Must. Stop. Facebook. Stalking. OM.

Maybe I should just de-friend him :(

Thanks for everyone who has directed posts at me (and sorry for hijacking your thread MMB!)

Maybe there is some element of truth in the comfort blanking thing, I don't know. All I know is I am feeling so terrible right now and I can't imagine how to move on. I will be 30 this year and should be settling down and having kids. Now I don't even know if this will ever happen - what if I don't meet the right guy?

To make things worse, I have stopped going out with my fun circle of friends as much. I don't feel as though I am very good company right now and have withdrawn into myself a bit so am lonely.

Plus, I have found out (via stealth) that former DP has had a few women interested in him. I hate that so much. Since we broke up he has lost weight, is looking very well and despite telling me that he wants to be single and sort out his drinking (at least my leaving has incited him to do that if nothing else) he is seeing these women socially, if not more.

I am devestated. Why does he want them and not me?

Sorry everyone. I am just having a truly awful day. I have already cried my eyes out in the ladies three times and it's not even 3pm!

He's tidying himself up so he can sucker another poor lady in. You are well rid. And what's this obsession with 30 - you are so young! You have 15 yrs to meet someone and have babies. Plenty of time. And better than wishing your life away stuck with that halfwit. You done half the job, now for the next half:

You need a plan of action [Joyce Grenfell tones]

1. Go out with friends, socialise
2. Take up new hobby that allows you to meet like minded people or embark on further education/training
3. Exercise - endorphins - feel good
4. Counselling - so you are happy with YOU, you don't need a man to be fulfilled

Cumbria, please don't apologise for hijacking. Before you posted, I was just thinking "I hope Cumbria comes back to talk and doesn't worry about hijacking my thread"!

I think you really need to talk (to us or to others) about what you're going through!

Of course you will be jealous of what you've seen. And it's infuriating that you suffered with your DP's depression, lack of socialising etc and now he appears to have changed those things.

To be honest, I still don't know what I will do and need more time, but one thing this discussion has gien me is perspective - or at least reminded me that perspective exists! When you feel unhappy NOW it's nearly impossible to imagine that you might ever stop feeling unhappy. So maybe you should continue to talk here and see what people say about what you're going through.

If you are older or already have a family, you have to understand what it is like to be in your late 20s at the moment. You are bombarded from all directions - from the media etc - with messages such as "Don't leace it too late!!!!!", "Don't wait for Mr Perfect - he doesn't exist and your ovaries will shrivel up and you will end up dying alone eaten by alsations!!!!!!" (yes, I thought we should be over that Bridget Jones shit too but we're not). Oh don't forget "Don't rely on IVF you cold, selfish, NHS bleeding bitches!!!!!"

It is hard sometimes when you're being bombarded with these messages and you desperately want to have a family.

*leave not leace

And at the moment a lot is being shoved down our throats abot how fertility declines after 30. There is plenty of evidence to the contrary (my mum popped out three in very close succession in her mid-late 30s and the last one was an accident!) - but we do get this propaganda.

I agree with you that there is a lot of pressure to couple up, have children, do it before you are thirty (and that is precisely why I got myself into a mess and now have a child whose father doesn't live with her...)

But I dont agree with you that the stuff about declining fertility is 'propaganda'. I thought the medical evidence was quite clear and compelling - fertility dramatically declines in woman from age of 35 onwards.

Just because we all know women who have had babies later, and been fine, doesn't make that untrue.

Spero, of course you're right - I don't think I said what I meant very well.

What I meant was - most vaguely educated people understand how fertility works. Women only really need to be told once that if they leave it late, they're taking the risk of not conceiving.

But there is so much noise about in the papers (or maybe I just notice these articles!) that I think it sometimes cows women into making bewildered decisions.

It's awkward - I'm not even saying which is the better choice if you find yourself at the end of your fertility but in a difficult relationship.

I don't even think it's the media OP. It's the very real biological egg timer that is running out all the time. You get closer to 35 and if you want a family but haven't found the right guy yet, there's an element of having at some point to say to yourself, "Do I remain childless, or do I have the children I've always wanted but with a man I know isn't right for me? Because I don't have time to piss around"

I have been watching this thread with interest. You can file me in the 'had doubts but didn't get out' column. I have since split from my husband and we have one son. While I can't imagine my life without my son, I would echo what other people have said...it's so tough to separate when children are involved.

When I eventually did pluck up the courage to leave (and boy was that a hard conversation) I had lots of counselling - as did my ex - and it really helped. I was grieving the loss of my relationship, future expectations and the pain it caused our son. We're all doing fine now. My ex and I get on better than ever and I like to think we are really good parents to our son.

One thing I would suggest is to write down everything that you are feeling right now - even save this thread somewhere. Because a few months down the line (like cumbria) you may experience doubts. When you are dealing with a little lonliness (I was like you a serial monogamist) - it will help you to look back over why you decided to split. When you see your reasons and emotions in cold black and white it will remind you that you made the right decision.

madonna Of course you're right. I don't think I meant what I said, I think I meant something else.

I think I meant that every time I read one of those artlces telling me to get started on the babies I think "SHUT UP SHUT UP I FUCKING KNOW!!!"

Also, overthinking this (partly because of newspaper readng), led me to feel at 23 that I was too old to start again and then I rushed into a r'ship with my fiance.

But, it's not really the media - it's a very real dilemma for women.

Which brings me back to my original quandary - should I marry a man I don't think I love properly for security, friendship and babies?

Well, maybe that would be best for me if the babies are important... but it's not just about me: is it fair to marry a man you feel so-so about? I don't think it is, unless I can convincingly fake it all my life.

I guess also, it hasn't always been the culture to marry for love and I wonder how many people really do and if I am realistic to expect it.

I think it's also a very dubious decision to start a family with someone you feel so-so about.

And what if you marry the guy and the babies don't come for whatever reason?

I'm 35 - ovaries shrivelling by the second according to certain media :). I have thought about children, of course. If they come along, I'll be delighted. But if it's just me and DP forever, that'll be just fine with me.

Personally I wouldn't be happy settling for 'good enough', and it doesn't sound as if you would be either.

It might not always have been the culture, but it has been the ideal for a good long time.

And anyway, does it really matter what other people did in the past? Surely what matters is what makes sense to you in the here and now?

I just think it's interesting to look at the past and also at other culture - i.e. those that encourage arranged marriages (NOT forced marriages - I draw the line!).

Just not to assume that what we currently do in our own culture is the only or best way.

Yes, I agree that it's interesting to realise that there are more ways than one.

But what I'm saying is that this is your very specific situation, and that ultimately you need to make choices that makes sense for you in your situation.

MMB are you sure you are not just clutching at every bit of evidence that supports taking the less challenging option and settling for someone who doesn't excite you rather than doing the difficult thing and leaving him?

I quite see why you might find that less frightening but you wouldn't be posting here if you were comfortable with that.

NoNames - Basically at the moment I'm staying with a friend for two weeks so both me and my fiance can let our feelings settle and have a good think. Until the time in two weeks that we've arranged to meet again, I'm considering all arguments, options and trying to understand them and myself.

Wordweaver - so true... and surprisingly easy to forget when you overthink, like I maybe am. :)

OP i didn't mean my last post to suggest that you staying with your fiance is an option - i really don't think it is, at least, it's not a good option for you.

Sure the clock is ticking and some women have to make a choice in the face of declining fertility whether or not to bite the bullet and have a baby with someone not 100% suitable before it's too late, but at 27 you are nowhere near that point yet. I was thinking more about women 10 years older than you for whom time really is running out.

You have years and years to discover yourself, enjoy being on your own and find someone who is your perfect match. As NoNames said, don't clutch at straws in order to postpone what you know ultimately you must do. I.e. leave this relationship.

Actually you could have a baby by yourself. The end result is no different than coupling up, starting a family, then breaking up. You'd have the advantages of planning & organising it all on a long-term basis, plus you can choose the father/father figure for his parenting qualities alone.

I agree that the media is just reflecting and ramming home what for most of us is a biolgical imperative.

I was a victim of this must-be-married-by-30-or-am-hideous-barren-failure syndrome and I can only emphasise, don't, don't, don't fall into that trap.

Otherwise you are likely to end up, ten years down the line and a couple of children later, separated and both quite resentful and unhappy, unless you are very, very, lucky and incredibly emotionally mature.

It is so difficult as the media adulation of the 'perfect family' and the intense focus on coupledom I find really wearing. Sometimes I find myself wishing that I had stayed with my ex just to get that validation. BUT then I remember how many awful awful times I had with someone who didn't love me and I know I made the right choice. It sounds like I was in the role your fiance is now, and it is a bloody horrible place to be.

DOn't forget what's really behind the constant pressure on women to settle down and settle for a man, any man who isn't an obvious serial killer or whatever: it's a collective, cultural, sorry-to-use-the-word-but patriarchal wish/myth. It's about the idea that women exist to be men's servants and breeding stock, that every man is entitled to own a woman who will service him and flatter his ego - so a woman who refuses this role is a threat to society, hence the stigmatization of single women and indeed single mothers.
Yeah yeah, of course not all marriages or couple-relationships are really like this, and people do need other people in their lives: we are social animals who need to co-operate with others, to have someone to care about, etc etc (though there are plenty of other ways of getting support, affection and attention than heteromonogamy).

MMB: Go and get yourself a copy of Wifework, by Susan Malhausan and read that before you start dating again, never mind 'relationship counselling'.

Cambria: What on earth happened to you in your younger days to make you seriously thing that you were wrong to leave a self-obsessed, whining, manipulative alcoholic? Girl, dumping him is the biggest favour you ever did yourself. Just because he's scrubbed up a bit now and found some other woman to temporarily, at least, believe that she can be the one to Heal The Wounds doesn't mean he won't revert rapidly back to pissed up sulkypants a month or two down the line.

I was the one who said 30 is so young (to Cumbria & I know MMB you're only 27) and I hope it didn't come across as patronising, it certainly wasn't my intent. There is no denying there might be a biological imperative at play but if you just want a child, well you don't have to have a relationship for that. But I guess you want the whole deal like most women. But if you're just listening to the tick-tick-tick you could end up making very hasty decisions which will make you wish that you indeed went the sperm donor route.

The very good advice on this thread has been is to take time out from relationships and, to sound slightly new age, find yourself so you can be comfortable in your own skin and know what you want. But if you can hear the biological clock ticking in your ear there is a danger that you won't do this or just pay lip service to it.