Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"But we took you to Statley Homes" Dysfunctional families thread

1000 replies

MummieHunnie · 15/12/2010 13:15

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

OP posts:
MummieHunnie · 20/12/2010 02:06

You have images of stepfather or half brother being humiliated and hurt, do you want to elaborate on how that was done?

OP posts:
MummieHunnie · 20/12/2010 02:07

Bookcase, why do you think your mother was laughing and watching?

OP posts:
findingthepath · 20/12/2010 02:08

It will just end up in a slanging match and my sisters will get involved and my Dad and they will blame me and say i'm mean for upsetting a 68 year old woman.

I dont feel angry to her anymore and i did as a teenager and when i had more contact with her.

Now i can tell when she is in a bad mood and is about to have a go at me and i just hang up the phone.

MummieHunnie · 20/12/2010 02:10

finding there is a powerfull connection betwen mother and daughter, this tit for tat hurting and protecting from hurting going on, how could you both improve things?

OP posts:
findingthepath · 20/12/2010 02:11

I think it very telling that i couldn't spend more than a day and half at their house before i would want to come home.

findingthepath · 20/12/2010 02:13

I dont feel like i have a mum just this person with the job thats not turned up to work.

I have no feeling for her.

BookcaseFullofBooks · 20/12/2010 02:14

Still here ftp. Thinking of trying to get some sleep in a bit.

I used to try to change my mum, but have finally realised that I don't want her to be a mum to me any more. She tries to make up for her mistakes, which is something, but I can never have a mother-daughter relationship with her.

findingthepath · 20/12/2010 02:18

Battry going on laptop - i guess i have to go to bed and try to sleep i'm sure Air will wake me up at 6am Sad

BookcaseFullofBooks · 20/12/2010 02:30

I tend not to remember much after I have woken up mh, but I have a general sense of fear and shame. I wonder if mum laughing is about my feeling that she colluded in abuse because she never left when we were given a place at a refuge.

BookcaseFullofBooks · 20/12/2010 02:38

Hope you manage to get some sleep ftp.
I've been wondering if, on some level, you are already grieving for the mother you never had because you know that she won't change.

MummieHunnie · 20/12/2010 02:42

Have a good sleep ladies, not sure if I will be able to just yet, the sleep seems to be coming later and later, I always get affected this time of year, I get better once the days get longer again!!!!

Do you know what you dream bookcase?

OP posts:
BookcaseFullofBooks · 20/12/2010 02:46

The dreams I do remember mh are usually like the one I mentioned earlier. Dh tells me that I whimper and talk in my sleep and now and again scream. I don't have very good quality sleep.

piranhamorgana · 20/12/2010 10:02

I hope you all got some sleep last night.
Bookcase and findingthepath - Sad [shocked]Sad at what you have experienced.

mh - agree re this time of year.It is something I find very hard - Christmas,the endless darkness,weather too bad to go anywhere....the expectation that it is all jolly,happy families.

I know very well how stressful Christmas is in even happy families,and that it is miserable for so many.I am not influenced by media and materialism at the best of times.But everything is so in your face these two weeks.

I have brought my dc up to be balanced,realistic and to have a strong social conscience.They have grown up shouting at adverts and rejecting mainstream stuff (!)

What I am trying to say is,that although they love Christmas,they are not desperate for the latest stuff;there is no expectation that I provide "the dream",whatever that is.And they are under no illusions about their Granparents.We told my parents some weeks back that we would be having a quiet two weeks at home,no visitors.So that's sorted.

So the sadness I am feeling is coming from inside me.
I am longing for spring and light.

findingthepath · 20/12/2010 10:36

I find it strange that i was ok with having contact with my family (I dont consider my brother my family) when it was just me and HD but now i have my son i want to protect him from their crazyness.

Whenever my mum talks to him on the phone its on intercom all the time so me and DH can hear what she is saying and i can hang up if i dont like what is being said.

She always mentions my brother and i think its hard as my son does not know who he is and will never meet him.

How do i set a boundry that when she talks to my son dont mention him or should my son know that i have a brother?

My sister said if my mum looks after son or we stay there then there is a chance that my son will play with their son and i just dont want that to happen.

I'm not ready to have no peartenal family yet.

findingthepath · 20/12/2010 10:40

I think it all gets more compcated when you consider the effect this will have on children.

And everyone in my family knows what happened and has an opioin like i should forgive and forget beacuse he has a wife and their frist child on the way.

They didn't give a dame about my son being born why so i give a dame about their.

Its ok for him to act like that and everyone said oh thats just what he is like but its not ok for me to want nothing to do with him or his family.

Angry
piranhamorgana · 20/12/2010 11:01

That is a difficult one,findingthepath.

As you may know,I do have very limited contact with my parents.Both my brothers decided to have nothing to do with me - they "disapprove" of my being a single mother.They have never acknowledged my 8mo dd.They live in the same village as my parents ,they all live in each others pockets.My brothers children are the new golden children.The whole community over there view me as a drama loving,crazy trouble maker (to my family) this is despite the fact that I am a senior medical officer in that same community and therefore treat many of the local population....

My family tried for a long time to have contact with my dc without my knowledge or involvement.
It was hardest when the dc were small and could not understand what it was all about.Although they found my mother strange and uncomfortable.They now find her pathetic,and laugh at how ridiculous she is,although they are angry at what they see and hear her do - or try to - to me.

Anyway,my point is,it is entirely up to you in the way you choose to parent your children.The decisions I have taken about who,how and why my dc should spend time with are taken with exactly the same considerations as I would use regarding anyone.

That is to say,I believe my brothers' attitude to me is small minded,cruel and untrue.I do not want my children to be exposed to those values.Since I know my brothers,I know they would attempt to influence my dc in a way with which I do not agree.

It is a shame that my dc and their cousins' do not know each other and cannot play together.That is the sad fallout of my brothers' - and sil's - attitude to me.All of which stems from my parents' abuse.

It's not ok for anyone in your family - now or in the past - to behave towards you in the way they have,and do.You can decide to what extent you dc have contact,awareness or involvement with any of these peple.Now and in the future.

It is hard,but try to consider it as if this were anyone in your dc's life.
Your own feelings and responses to the ins and outs are - of course! - clouding your decision making.

My dc,now they are older,are able to see it how it is and -because they are not growing up surrounded by abuse - gaslighting partucularly and all the game playing- can see it much more clearly than me.

I learn a lot from the calm way they deal with Granny.They help me to be less caught up in the emotional responses that I was programmed into from birth.

HUGS

NotAnApple · 20/12/2010 12:59

Hello again, sorry I haven't been back sooner.

I think I belong on this thread, the more I read the more I can accept that I had an abusive upbringing.

I am going to follow Mummiehunnie's advice on posting and say why I think I have moved from thinking my mother was perfect to thinking she was abusive.

My mum was a single mum until I was about 4/5 when she met my dad (I call him dad, although we no longer speak, it's complicated). She went without so that we could have things and I ended up with good qualifications and a good job. People would always comment on how well behaved we were as children and compliment my mum on how lovely her children were. I suppose I took all of this to mean that she was a good mum. She told us every day that she loved us and when she was in a good mood she would do special things for us like plan days out and little surprises.

I have a DD who is almost 2. She is my absolute world. Her birth was dreadful, she was the only positive thing about it, and it left me a life-long condition and post traumatic stress disorder (which I think I am over now).

I found a therapist to help me with my PTSD but instead of talking about the birth I talked about my mum. Every week. I kind of realised I had some issues but I didn't know what.

All my childhood memories with mum in are of fear. Of walking on egg shells trying not to upset her or get on her bad side.

If we made her cross she would line us up and lecture us for hours. Honestly, plans would go out of the window and we would stay home all day having her lecture us on how ungrateful we were and not to answer back but then if we didn't answer when she wanted us to she would scream. All I can see when I remember being shouted at by her is the pattern of the lounge carpet.

DD was about 4 months old and we had come to visit my mum who had taken a week off to look after my two young nieces (4 & 6 then). She had promised to take them to the zoo but decided that she wanted to clean her entire house first. It didn't need it. She spent hours rushing around while the two girls got more bored and restless. They entertained themselves but not in a way my mum considered to be consistent with living in a show home and she just flipped.

She lined them up in front of her, just like she would do with me and my siblings, a lectured them. Guilt trips (I bought you this, I took the week off, I dont even like the zoo) and threats (we're not going now, I'm taking you back to your mums (they're both scared of their mum - shes separated from my step-brother, my mum knows this is an upsetting threat). So the girls sobbed and pleaded and were so apologetic and frightened and it was like looking at me 25 years ago. I saw what it must have been like, how irrational, unreasonable and nasty she was. It was more than a telling off, I wouldnt speak to an adult the way she spoke to the girls.

Instead of standing up for the girls, when my mum left the room, I told them how to win her round. What to say, what to do. It was like I a child again. I realised how scared I was. I will always be ashamed of that. I was an adult and should have said stop but I didn't. It affected me for a long time and I suppose it started me thinking.

A few months later I caught up with a conversation on facebook between my mum and my cousin which was absolutely ripping me to shreds. I knew they would say it was a joke but this was my mum, insulting me in public for the sake of being the "fun" aunty. I was so upset and I think I posted something stroppy. She called me at work the same day and lectured me about how it was a joke and couldn't she even joke about me now, did they make her such a terrible mother, she'd always tried her best and if I couldn't see that then she'd have to just cut all ties with me. I was so shocked. Cut all ties? It was so out of the blue and extreme. But I wouldn't back down, she wanted me to be the child she controlled, to say I was wrong, she should be allowed to call me all kinds of awful things in front of my friends and colleagues on Facebook for the sake of a joke. I said "Well I think that's quite extreme but it's your choice". She replied "Well, I will miss X (DD) but what choice do I have? You seem to hate me". I said I don't hate you but if you don't want to speak to us then thats up to you" and hung up. She text me a few hours later saying she was sorry, she overreacted. When I called her (and I didnt want to because I knew it was all just part of the manipulation) she said "I'm sorry but you do need to learn to take a joke". So not really an apology.

It got me thinking that actually, my whole life she has tried to control me through fear. Through the fear of being abandoned. I know that sounds dramatic but bear with me. Some examples:

If we were being naughty then she would pile the 4 of us into the car and leave us crying outside the "childrens home" until we behaved. Or she would threaten to take us to my biological dads house and leave us there ("and he lives with his 9 brothers and sisters in a caravan, you won't have a bed and they won't let you go to school, you'll have to cook and clean for them"). I think that threat had a double purpose - be good and don't think about looking for your real dad when you get older - don't leave me!

She would shout at us and then tell us that as we were so naughty and hated her so much she just fely like killing herself. She'd say "I'm going to jump into the dock" and walk out the front door, leaving us all sobbing. Evetually she'd come back and we'd be so relieved that she was alive we be silent and loving and grateful.

Another time she took an "overdose" in front of my sister and I and collapsed on the floor. It turns out it was a handful of rice but when you're 8 you don't pay attention to the detail.

If we were naughty in public (and that might mean we picked something off a shelf in the shop) then she would dig her nails into the tops of our arms or crush our hands to make us stop/punish us. Effective because it wasn't very obvious to passers-by and hurt like mad.

My siblings all talk of the time she lined us up to hit us with a stick. They laugh about it but I asked my sister about it last week and she insists it happened. I don't remember it. My therapist thinks it too painful for me to remember. I believe my version of the truth and my siblings, which isn't possible is it? I know that they aren't liars.

She eventually withdrew from the family, we hardly saw her, she would shop alone at weekends and worked long hours as did my dad. My dad, although he did the basics for us - roof over our head, etc, I favoured my brothers and my sister and I would be punished for things we hadn't done. He would invent things we'd said to justify to my mum why he'd punished us. Looking back, I don't think he was well or the strain of his marriage was showing. I recall my mum talking to my sister and I when we were in our early teens saying she knew he made stuff up and she knew he didn't really like us. She just kind of ignored it though.

When I was 15, my mum didn't come home from work one evening. We discovered she'd left us all for another man. They're still together now, 17 years on, so she feels vindicated in her decision but she left and we had no contact for 2 months. We thought she was dead. It turns out she was in London (quite a way from here). They even managed to squeeze in a visit to the palace so she wasn't completely consumed by missing her children.

So now, I have a child of my own. There is not one part of my upbringing that I would replicate with her. My mother says to me "shes so naughty" and I look at DD and just see a curious 2 year old. My DD will do things and my mum will say "shes so like you at her age" and I feel sorry for the 2 year old me. I didn't deserve to be smacked then or shouted at or made to feel afraid of my mum all the time.

I cannot understand how I could have been such a dreadful child from birth to warrant her heavy handed approach and her need for control. What could I have ever done that was so awful she had to pretent to drop dead in front of me? I feel sick at the thought of doing anything like that in front of DD.

I had a mc amost two weeks ago and she came with me to the scan. DH couldn't get away from work. The second scan confirmed the baby had died. When I looked up, my mum was crying. Now I know that this will sounds really nasty but I don't think she was crying for me. She was crying so that she could tell people she cried. Does that sound awful? We came out of the room and I said something like "Shit, I've got to call DH at work, this is going to kill him" and she got all angry and said "this isnt just about you two you know NotAnApple, this was my grandchild too, your stepdad will be devastated and it will bring it all back to your brother, he'll be really upset". Even when it's about me it's about her. I said we'd like to put a plaque in the baby garden and she said "yes, I'd like to have somewhere to go to remember your brothers baby too".

Mum took time off to be with me and play with DD while I slept (she is more relaxed with DD that she was with me). Except my mum was tired and she fell asleep on the bed next to me when she brought my lunch up and I had to watch DD having just got home from surgery. She just wanted to climb on me and cuddle, I had terrible pain and cramps and yet was there desperately trying to keep DD quiet so I wouldn't wake my mother. And I still thanked her for looking after me when DH came to pick me up. See, scared. My SIL had a miscarriage in the summer, my mum bought her and my brother a new 40 inch tv to cheer them up. I didn't even get an hour alone to cry/sleep (I don't give a shit about getting a new tv!).

I think I should stop there. I don't know what to do next. I still have contact wuth my mum, I can't imagine not. I can't ever tell her any of this because she will twist it around to being my fault and me being a bitch.

If you've read all of this, thank you. It's helped to just get it down. Any idea how I make my peace with it all? Am I being too touchy? I can be oversensitive, perhaps I was very badly behaved or maybe this is just what all parents do. She isn't awful all the time and I do love her. I just feel so confused.

GraceAwayInAManger · 20/12/2010 13:44

Hi, everyone, and thank you for your post NAA.

I'm on a scary down, too, and can't post much though reading your stories is bringing back some memories for me - which is a good thing, thank you.

ftp, just wanted to say I think it's okay for your DC to know they have an uncle whom you do not see. Family secrets cause problems, so I feel it's best not to hide such important facts from them. There's nothing wrong with saying you have an uncle, Fred, he's my brother. Here's a photo of him. I don't like him because he's not a nice person, so that's why we don't see him.

The lady from Mind is due in a few minutes - it's snowing buckets, though; I don't know if she'll make it. I am really feeling the lack of proper support atm :(

piranhamorgana · 20/12/2010 13:59

NotAnApple -Having read your post,I am horrified and I feel so sad for the little girl you were.

You are NOT being touchy.You are quite right in saying that your dd behaves just like a normal 2yr old.That is what you were doing,too,throughout your childhood.Just being a normal child who needed,wanted and should have been able to expect to be loved unconditionally by your mother.

The behaviour that you describe is certainly NOT what all parents do.As I understand now,most people would not dream of behaving towards other people in this way,never mind a parent towards their child.As you would never do any of those things to your dd.

Unfortunately,most of us on Stately Homes have experienced some,or all of the things you describe.

The twisting it around and being made to feel it is your fault is very ,very familiar to me,and to many other posters here.That is what leads us to feel that what we have experienced is not as bad as we think,to question if it was abuse - even,as you are doing,to wonder if we behaved so badly that we deserved it.

http://daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/ Here is a link to a site which you may find interesting.

You did not,and do not deserve to be treated in this way.Being sensitive with regards to this is appropriate.I m glad you have started to question all of this and to ask for support in finding a different way forward.I admire your honesty and you sound very articulate and insightful.I am sure you are a great Mum to your dd.

I still have contact with my Mum.But I feel very differently about her,about what has happened,and about how she continues to behave.She will never change.
But I have.

I am happier and healthier now.It could be tough on the way,but you can be happier and make peace with this ,too.
Thank you for sharing,and do keep posting.x

piranhamorgana · 20/12/2010 14:01

Here

piranhamorgana · 20/12/2010 14:01

...is a link that works...sorry

BookcaseFullofBooks · 20/12/2010 14:24

Hi everyone. I hope you managed to get some sleep last night FTP and Mh.

NAA, what a terrible childhood. I'm afraid that's all I can find to say. I'm just struck by the fear and sadness that you must have felt as a child and wonder if you love your mum out of duty rather than any other reason. You have a right to be very angry about the way you have been and are being treated.

Grace, I'm sorry you're feeling so down. I hope the Mind lady has made it to you and I will make sure I'm around on here later in case you need to post x

GraceAwayInAManger · 20/12/2010 14:33

Thanks, Bookcase :) She did make it! She's lovely and I now have a point of support, which is a hell of a relief. xxx

BookcaseFullofBooks · 20/12/2010 14:53

Just looked at that website pm. I can see my mum in many of the behaviours on there but am worried now that I might become a narcissistic mother to my 4 mth old little girl. I'm terrified of her growing up to hate me and not want to be around me when I'm older.

BookcaseFullofBooks · 20/12/2010 14:54

Oh good Grace. I'm glad you've got some rl support now x

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.