"But we took you to Stately Homes!" - Dysfunctional parents?

[ItsGraceAgain]

It's October 2010, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

OlderandHappier - thank you, I felt such a sense of relief as I read your posts to me.

I have decided that I'm not going to call up my mother, tell her we're going away and arrange a visit for this week. Doing so would be doing what she wants - which is to see the kids before Christmas. But it is not what I want.

I feel so stressed and a bit close to cracking up right now, and what i'm holding onto is that i'll be going away on an amazing 3.5 week adventure very soon. I know that my holiday will sort me out: I just need a break.

But before I go, I don't need to add to my stress by seeing my mother just because it would suit her. But it doesn't suit me. And my kids would enjoy seeing her, but they're not actively missing out as they don't know there's the possibility of seeing her and they haven't asked.

So I will put my needs first and not see her and not tell her about my holiday until I want to. It might not even be until we get back

oh, and just to defend what I was saying about my concerns about this thread before posting -

It is laypeople diagnosing others with personality disorders that I am somewhat cautious of, although I do agree that the labels and terms can be very helpful and helps create a group identity on here.

findingthepath - the changing your own behaviour and seeing if others change is a tricky one. I do believe that we can definitely change the way others respond to us by the way we act ourselves. I am a firm believer in changing my own behaviour if I want a dynamic to change. Because it is our choice now as adults what we put up with.

But very dysfunctional people may just carrying on behaving in the same old ways. In which case, my advice would be, change your behaviour again and go NC

Honolulu, I know where you are coming from with regards to lay people diagnosing personality disorders, I can't be too far wrongight with certain people, as my df was diagnosed as bipolar which runs alongside other mh issues and as someone I knew has apparently been officially diagnosed as a sociopath by mental health professionals!!!!

Not sure if it is better to know these people are not "normal" or not, as I have not been comfortable thinking a sociopath is after me and is hunting me down years after knowing me a short time on fb to threaten me!

I make no apologies for using those labels. They define certain personality types.

A mental health diagnosis is not like the diagnosis of a physical condition, caused by a certain organism. You can't say "He's got the bipolar virus" or "She has a NPD gene". The diagnostic criteria are a convenience; they make no pretence to be otherwise.

Those personailty types have always existed. People have always recognised them. It would be a shame to have to resort to the blunter, old-fashioned terms when psychiatry has provided us with more precise (and compassionate) descriptors.

I don't mind anyone calling my mother "mad" - as they frequently do! But it's more helpful to be able to say what kind of mad she is.

I like the labels too...they give me power pre-empt my families actions to some degree...without labels I am sure I would believe myself to be the 'nutty' one. :(

Anyhoo.........I really, really need to off load but have no idea where to start....

I am shaking like a leaf, gone into hypervilgilance mode and can't organise my thoughts for toffee! My adrenaline levels must be through the roof.

Ok I think I shall start with the basics and take it from there throughout the day.

The basics...

I left home at 17 went a bit wild..returned home at 19 for a couple of years...and became the family slave as my punishment.

Left home again and got married, no contact with parents other than duty calls for about 19 years.

They retired and bought the house next door to me. We are now 4 years on....my 'safe space' is the day they move house. I now realise I owe them nothing in their old age and finally I will be free, no duty calls, no stress! I have also learnt they are moving as they can not cope with being so close to me and 'all my problems'. THE ONLY PROBLEM I HAVE IS THEM!!

Now it looks as if there maybe a 'difficulty' with the house sale, revealed by another relative who is not 'nutty' last night.

I am now waiting for a 'parent' to appear via my back door without knocking or phoning first to inform me of this. They watch me come and go from my house, they comment on the washing, I have on the line (too much), they disapprove of my friends, they undermine my parenting and they do this everyday....as to them my home is an extension of theirs and they come and go as they please...hence my hypervigilance as I have no privacy...none at all. If I lock the doors and go upstairs they will 'rap' the back door for about 10 mins then go around the front and push the door bell...so much for a relaxing 5 mins reading a book! In fact, they are so judgemental I find myself being 'productive' at all times least I get caught out and give them further cause to 'comment'.

I have done the explaining of boundaries, I have returned the gifts and monetary bribes to establish my 'separateness'. I have told them my childhood was shite, I have done everything advised when dealing with these type of people and still they won't let go.

I gave up all hobbies, due to competitiveness. If I was knitting, my Mother would start knitting just to prove she could knit faster than me....not better, just faster. We were given a new/secondhand TV...my Father went and bought a bigger newer one (just two of many, many examples). I lost contact with my friends as I couldn't cope with friends and parents.

Finally, in the last month through knowing they will be moving, I have picked up my hobbies and reconnected with my friends and am generally participating in my life again....and NOW I hear it may all come to nothing!

I NEED them to move or I will end up cracking up myself, I need to relax!

My instincts are telling me that all this is my parents playing games....we shall see!

If you've made it to the end of my post....Well done! xx

FFS...the postie just rang the door bell and I jumped feet and slammed the laptop shut, just in case it was a parent at the door!! I really do need to 'get a grip' fast!

I would prefer to listen to incessant knocking and bell ringing anyday over people using my home as an extension to their own, if I liked them or not, you should be able to do what you want (obviously not illegal) in your own home and feel no one will invade that space!

Your childhood has warped your boundaries and you are allowing this, now go and lock the doors, put on some earphones and don't answer the dammed door to them, I used to feel I had to answer the door and phone etc, eventually I got it, you only do what suits you and your family at that time, if it is that important they will call back or leave a message, if you are in the middle of dinner or an important talk your families needs come first not someone else's, I was so pleased when I realised that and started to carry it through! I probably went a bit too far though with it and would not answer the door to someone who was checking the gas/electric levels because they annoyed me by hammering on the door so much that they scared me, I though I am not answering the door to such an agressive arrogant person!

Oh I do ignore the door MummieHunnie...but they come back at 20 min intervals!

I have caller ID and an answer phone....my mobile has had it's answer phone facility switched off, so they can't ramble on there....as far as they are concerned I am in control of my own 'space' I just don't feel in control.

The problem is they are so close....I can't even pretend to be out...they have a clear view of my comings and goings, both front and back of my house. They list my visitors back to me.

They know they should phone, they know I struggle with the lack of privacy.I have told them and stated where my boundaries lie. What a fool I was...all that did was encourage them to overstep my boundaries more...making me have to work even harder to maintain them.

I suppose I am just worn out with it all and want it OVER.

At the risk of digging myself into a hole , I'm going to explain my wariness about labels.I am certainly not criticising anyone on here for using them.

It's not the labels themselves - I absolutely agree they are helpful, and definitely so within the context of the thread.

My wariness is about diagnosing others, only because I have been a victim of this.

I used to be in a therapy group with several other people, including two people who had Borderline Personality Disorders. We had all been assessed by a psychotherapist, and then, as a matter of formality, a psychiatrist before entering the group, who I saw as a one-off although some of the others had their own psychiatrists. I wasn't diagnosed with anything, although the pyschiatrist and I agreed that I was borderline depressed (borderline as in he didn't think anti-depressants were necessary, but I probably could have got them if I'd pushed for them, which I didn't as I didn't want them either).

Anway, the two people with BPD were always diagnosing others with the same thing, including me, one or two others in the group and people outside. The psychotherapist was always reminding them that only a pyschiatrist can make a diagnosis.

I found it incredibly upsetting when they diagnoses me, as they said it was due to certain things I said. My view was that I was there because I'd had abusive parenting and this had left me with feelings that I found difficult to cope with and some behavioural patterns that were self-destructive. It was maddening and upsetting to not be 'allowed' by them to have some difficulty in coping with relationships yet still not have a cognitive mental condition. Which I knew from my asssessment letter I didn't have as it expressly stated so.

So I feel wary about thinking that if someone has this condition, then it is an absolute label and there are no shades of grey. I do think that some people are absolute narcissists (my father), but that some people have narcissistic traits and are abusive but still have a modicum of self-awareness (my mother).

When I was nineteen my father stood there and listed to me ten reasons why I belonged in a psychiatric hospital. It was horrible.

Funnily enough, despite seeing many professionals since then, no one has ever thought I needed psychiatric treatment. But obviously my father knew best

Sorry, made a hash of a sentence.
Ignore the bit that says 'if someone has this condition'. Should be something along lines of: not everyone narcissistic meets the NPD profile absolutely.

I did find looking at the daughters of narcissistic mothers website a complete revelation. My mother was there. It was extraordinary.

Snowy - that sounds horrendous!

I agree with everything Mummie said.

Although I would add, is there anyway you can move? I know this may not be practical because of jobs/finances, but how liberating would it be for you to take the action that separates you from them.

Hi honolulu

To me the labels are just that labels to describe a set of actions....I've only ever used them on here...in RL I just describe my 'family' as difficult.

Tbh I don't think I'd ever have the afront to diagnose anyone with anything in RL.

honolulu

We can't move...it's a matter of finance.

Many a time I have wished we rented rather than buying...moving would be easy then.

Liberating indeed...I so hanker after my 19 years of duty calls.

Another example of 'invasion'...

I go to the loo, my backdoor is open so my dogs can enjoy the garden, it's summer....I come back down stairs to find my Father stood in the kitchen looking at private paperwork I left out.

I say "What do you want, I'm busy" and take the paperwork off him.

He says "I just popped in for a coffee."

"Oh" I say...."Well I was doing paperwork, it needs to be done today...."

"Yes" he says I noticed that....how much exactly is it you owe on the credit card...we could always help you out you know!"

I reply..."We are Ok and how much we owe is none of your business."

"Put the kettle on then..." he says!

"No, I have stuff to do first," says me.

Ok he says "I'll put the kettle on whilst you finish what you're doing!"

Talk about being thick skinned...emotional hide of a rhino!

OlderandHappier

I think their reasons for moving next door were because I have the grandchildren and they thought that I would revert to 'child' slave mode and be at their beck and call in their old age.

They retired and came into some money, the house next door came up for sale, they made an offer within 48 hrs of it going up for sale.

There was no discussion...they bought it and moved in.

I didn't play the game....they are now planning on moving closer to my brother....who only left home 3 years ago at the age of 38. He's a manchild, no long term relationships and is permanently locked in a curtain drawn room on his Xbox...or drunk.

If anyone finds my posts too 'much' please tell me and I will adjust what I write.

I've just realised how difficult this maybe for some of you considering how long my situation has been going on for. xx

snowy and olderandhappier - thanks for your views, reassures me somehow about using labels here I'd never heard of NPD myself before being on MN although it was my psychotherapist who said my parents were narcissistic.

snowy - words fail me. How did your father manage to get into your garden, is there not a border between yours and theirs? I would be fighting for a restraining order if my parents moved next door. I can't think of anything worse. Shudder, shudder.

honolulu

There is a 7 ft gate at the bottom of my garden....and a dead bolt...my dad brings a caravan step over and leans over the top of the gate and slides back the dead bolt!

Honestly this is so 'mad' when written down I am now laughing!

Snowy, it is completely bonkers, yes!

Have you ever threatened to call the police on them when they come uninvited into your house?

If the house sale is being delayed, I would certainly think about becoming extremely hardline with them, so they know that you won't let them get away with violating your boundaries, that the jig is up and that they should find their kicks elsewhere.

honolulu

I think that if the house sale doesn't go as planned, that's when I will have to really get tough with the boundaries.

Maybe that's why I am so stressed...I know what I will have to do next and am scared??

The fall out will be terrible though...my Father is a physically abusive man. I am under no doubt he will get violent. That's why I left home at 17...it was a him or me situation.

For now I just have to wait and see I guess.

do you live with a partner, Snowy?

I feel so sorry for you in such a vulnerable position.

honolulu

Yes, I do...married 20 years, together for 21.

Tbh I worry more about my boys being caught up in this more than me...for me this nonsense is 'usual' for them it is not.

My eldest is 13 and I have never left him or his younger brothers alone with either/both my parents. I am always there as the 'buffer' against the digs and sarcasm. I worry how they will cope should Granddad lose the plot.

Grandad will lose the plot and Grandma would have done the goading to fire Granddad into action....what a mess.

My Mother is my Fathers enabler...she thrives on the drama he creates.

Well...it looks like am well and truly in 'off loading' mode...BEWARE THIS MAYBE A TRIGGER POST.

..so here goes the final immediate family dynamic...

I've told you about my brother now for my sister...I have been complete NC with her for over 4 years now.

Why??

Because she told me she was raped and beaten up by a boyfriend. I stepped in and offered her somewhere to live. She moved in.

She then made inappropriate advances to wards my husband, I put this down to the stress of what had happened and advised she got some counselling. She said she didn't need counselling as she had never been raped or beaten up and laughed in my face at the realisation that I believed her. She said it was the only way she could move out quick from their house as she didn't have enough money for a deposit for somewhere else!

I have since found out she was still visiting/going out and sleeping with the guy she accused whilst living with me, she told me she was out with girlfriends.

There was I treating her with kid gloves, cooking her meals, doing her washing etc whilst she was living the life of riley.

I always knew she loved 'drama' and was always wary of her stories....but I NEVER thought than even she would lie about something like that.

I threw her out of my home that day and have not had contact since.

Just had a 'visit'...I played nice as I need info'...

THEY ARE STILL MOVING FOR DEFO'....it's just been delayed for a few days...

Now I feel silly for getting so worked up...but I know you guys understand my angst.

Thank you for being here ((Hugs))xx

Name change time methinks....I shall return!

Snowy, I am watching loose women with the hairy bikers and people were talking about frozen turkey's, and one biker said why buy a frozen one, buy a normal one!! It made me think of you, to many people not buying a frozen turkey is normal and makes sense, yet some people buy frozen turkey's, I imagine as it is what they have always done, what others do, it helps planning, avoids anxiety that they won't get a fresh turkey what ever! Snowy the descriptions you give of why you allow your parents access to your home is the same to me, lock the doors, don't open them it is simple, yet so very had for you, we know why due to the past, you are now a grown woman and yet you can't ignore the door bell etc, I realised they would know you were in, you are not pretending to be not in, you are not answering the door as it is not convenient to you at that time for what ever reason, which you dno't have to give either! So don't open the door to them, and make sure it is locked and the drama goes, I know drama is addictive and hard to let go, life is better without such negative drama!