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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"But we took you to Stately Homes!" - Dysfunctional parents?

1002 replies

ItsGraceAgain · 01/11/2010 21:19

It's October 2010, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

OP posts:
MummieHunnie · 13/12/2010 23:59

I understand honolulu! I have felt like that the past year or so, finally having control over what I decide to tell her or not tell her, it felt liberating, to have some control over things with open eye's, it soon wore off lol x

honolulu · 14/12/2010 00:00

I do feel guilty about not letting her come - am I cutting off my children's nose to spite my face?

I can't have her come over and not tell her we're going as I would have to brief DD - who is telling random shop assistants about how holiday - to stay schtum, which would be unreasonable of me.

honolulu · 14/12/2010 00:01

I haven't told my mother much about my life for years. It's not like she has any real control. But for some reason I feel very possessive about my holiday and like the idea of her not knowing we're away. Wierd.

MummieHunnie · 14/12/2010 00:01

I know, it is hard x

honolulu · 14/12/2010 00:03

Thank you Smile

But what should I do> Grin

She hasn't seen the children for well over a month now, probably nearer two.

findingthepath · 14/12/2010 00:06

In short its up to you.

If it was me i would wait till she calls you and tell her you are going away back in jan and leave it at that.

If she asks questions just keep saying "why do you need to know", "I have already told you" "Thats great so what are your plans" and "have a good christmas bye".

May be role play with DH before hand to know what you are going to say?

Also it is your life and you can just go away and tell no one if you want but will she call the police if she can not get in touch with you?

Or you could send her a xmas card with it in?

Hmm i dont think i'm any help

GraceAwayInAManger · 14/12/2010 00:08

Thank you honolulu. I imagine it took some time & effort to compose your post. You've certainly described a set of very painful relationships very concisely. That may not seem much to you but it's a hell of an achievement! Even if you feel your family relationships as complex & conflicted, as I'm sure you do, you've got a great fix on it all and I hope that re-reading your post shows you just how aware, and in charge, you are :)

Of course it's reasonable to go somewhere lovely for Christmas! 'Normal' people do it all the time. The only difference is the burden of guilt. A 'normal' set of parents go "Oh, how lovely, we'll miss you of course but have a great time".

So, yes, I feel you should ring your mother expecting the normal, healthy, caring response. If you don't get it, just tell her when you'll be back & wish her a happy Christmas.

There is loads more in your post, which deserves a full & sympathetic reply. As you may have gathered, I'm not equipped to write much more just now, but am sure there'll be more tomorrow :)

honolulu · 14/12/2010 00:12

Thank you Smile

I feel I need to explain further (albeit briefly [wink)

I just had a realisation while I was in the bathroom.

It's nothing to do with her response - I can handle that, that's no problem.

She won't call the police because she's used to me not responding to her immediately and anyway, she'll text me and I'll text her back saying we're away once we're away.

No, what is bothering me about telling her in advance is that I don't want, by telling her about it, to share it with her in any way. I don't want her to be part of it. It's so special to me, that I want to keep it all to myself and not involve her in anyway until it's all done.

I just feel guilty about depriving my children of seeing their grandmother. But they will see her once we get back.

honolulu · 14/12/2010 00:14

I have already told her we can't see her this week or before Christmas.

I just haven't told her why

Nor does she know that when I say 'we'll sort something out after Christmas', I am actually thinking of mid Jan rather than the end of Dec.

findingthepath · 14/12/2010 00:23

Would she get the hump and not see your kids after if you did not tell her you are going away?

How would you feel if your kids never seen her again?

Do do you value the relationship you DD and your mum have?

I hate my FIL for something he said when i had a breakdown and give my son to my husband and did a runner (i came back) i was ill he had no excess for what he said but my son loves him and i fusilate that relationship for the sake of my son. I have told my FIL this and we have called a trush but only for my son's sake. It is his right to have a relationship with his Granddad as long as that relationship does not put him in danger.

findingthepath · 14/12/2010 00:27

arrr loads of spelling mistakes in that sorry its late Blush

I guess what i'm saying is what is the fall out going to be if you dont tell her and do you care about that fall out?

If not then go for it its your life and you have the right to do what you want.

honolulu · 14/12/2010 00:39

FTP- no, no my mother would definitely not take it out in the kids. She'd be upset That I hadn't told her, but she's dying to see them and will be even more so by Jan.

I suppose I do value her relationship with DD. She is a very attentive, active and fun grandparent. She loves small children and was probably a reasonable mother when I was that age - it was when I got a bit older with my own opinions that she found hard Hmm

It raises an interesting point really - should I do the reasonable thing or have I earnt the right to act secretly and therefore somewhat unreasonably?

GraceAwayInAManger · 14/12/2010 00:41

[reminders to self] power; daughters. see above.

honolulu · 14/12/2010 00:42

And her relationship with DD is a few hours once a month, so it's not like they're really close.

quiddity · 14/12/2010 00:49

Honolulu, I'm exactly the same, even with things that don't directly affect my mother. I just don't want to tell her. When she abandoned her responsibilities, she also gave up her rights, and it's too late for her to pretend to be interested now.It's my life and I want to own it.
Mine almost ruined a project I was working on earlier this year when I made the mistake of mentioning it to her and she went away and read up on it on her own. It took me months to get back on track. It seemed tainted once she'd got involved. So I just stopped telling her anything at all about it.

GraceAwayInAManger · 14/12/2010 01:20

Hmmm, this is about boundaries, isn't it? As in, your mother doesn't perceive any boundaries between your life and hers (which she 'owns') and you're finally struggling to set out your fences?

I've taken a longer view with my mum, who can't actually tell the difference between herself and me. Others choose to cut contact entirely, which is another entirely valid choice. I understand your wish to keep something to yourself ... but would it be more empowering to tell her so? Just a thought. I'm too tired to figure out all the possible angles, but wanted to post while I'm thinking about it. Just one take, then; hope that's OK.

honolulu · 14/12/2010 10:46

Thanks Grace, I appreciate your and everyone else's time and thoughts.

Not quite sure what you mean by more 'telling her so', I don't understand what you're suggesting I tell her?

It is interesting reading everyone's perspectives and experiences. (quiddity - that sounds dreadful, sympathies Shock)

I guess one thing, if you don't mind the honesty, that has kept me off the thread before is that I'm not against firm labels and feel that there is a sliding scale of narcissism - I am of the opinion that there are some people who are very narcissistic but who don't have NPD and who are able to modify and recognise some of their bad behaviour.

I don't feel that my mother is black and white at all, I recognised an awful lot of her on the daughters of narcissistc mothers site - in fact, that was a revelation. But I try to be fair in all things, and so I have to say that she can be caring and selfless and empathetic. One of the big problems of my childhood actually was my mother's Jekyll and Hyde persona - one minute I was her pretty little girl, the next I was her fat pig. There was no consistency or middle ground really: she was either very loving or very hateful. And obviously this is abusive, because the bad was bad (so much so that I had a therapist in tears once Grin) But even now I find myself reluctant to lump her in with everyone else's narcissistic mothers and say she's completely toxic, because she isn't completely toxic.

But then, the main reason she has changed dramatically in the way she deals with me is because I made her. She wants to see my kids, and she knows that means no funny business. It seems ridiculous having to spell out to a middle-aged woman that you won't see her any more if she carries on going on about how fat and disgusting you are (when clinically you are only half a stone overweight), but that's what I had to do in my mid-twenties. And then before I let her meet DD, I spelt out that she was to treat me with respect.

I think one thing I've gradually come to realise over the past few years is that it's my father who is the true, and absolute narcissist. And that, although I'm loathe to admit it, he has dominated my mother far too much and is probably emotionally abusive to her because of this.

He is the one I have gone NC with - there is no rationalising with him, no negotiation, no way he will 'tow the line' even for a few hours for the sake of other family members. Seeing my children - who he does really love and enjoys playing with the seven or so times he's met them - is not an incentive for him in the same way it is for my mother.

So, seeing my mother without the father, and with me with my new in control attitude, has been a bit of a revelation. I am the one with the power and the control and she knows it.

I suppose that is what I feel guilty about. Not telling her I'm going away when she is trying (reasonably) to arrange a time to visit is game-playing. And although I don't necessarily owe it to her to treat her with respect, I do feel I owe it to myself and to my children to model respectful behaviour. I should really tell her we're going. I just can't stand the thought of all her interest, all her wanting to to talk about it (again, quite reasonably - we are after all going to be visiting a country she used to live in). I just hate sharing anything with her. Not because she uses it against me or is controlling, I know she won't do this any more, but precisely because she has done this in the past and so for me, she's had her three strikes and she's out. I don't tell her any of my career successes or about my friends who she knows or anything. I have told her about other holidays but this one is special for several reasons and feels to intimate to share with her.

But then I think, well when anyone else asks me about plans for next week or so, I would of course tell them I can't because I'm going away, so shouldn't I behave in the same way towards my mother?

I guess this comes down to acting like an emotional teenager versus acting like a mature, rational woman. I don't know which to go with! Am I doing myself a disservice if I game play? Hmm.

Sorry, another long post. But it is good to have a place to thrash all this out with people who understand Smile

honolulu · 14/12/2010 10:48

Sorry, lots of errors. To clarify, I am against firm labels.

honolulu · 14/12/2010 11:00

God, now I'm on here the floodgates have opened and I can't stay away Blush

I think what it as at the crux of this is that if it was just me, I would not see my mother. She ruined her chances of having a true relationship with me during my childhood and twenties.

But it is not just me. I have a sibling, and loads of cousins and my paths have and will cross with my mother. And because I have children they will see her at family events anyway, so it seemed fair to let her get to know them in a controlled environment. And that has worked. She let me say my piece, which was the condition to her seeing them, and she is great with them and very respectful towards me. It is good for my kids as DH's mother isn't that bothered, we don't see my father and DH's dad is dead.

But deep down I still wish I was shot of her completely, because I will always resent and grieve for the mother I should have had Sad

shongololo · 14/12/2010 11:04

roll up, roll up, its time to guess the game my family are playing!

2 weeks ago, had call from sister. Just to chat. Haven spoken to her in about 8 months. I have deliberately distanced myself from toxic family.

Then a week later, she FBs my DD - Grandmother has some money for you, send me bank account details so I can send them on to her.....We respond that we prefer grandmother send money to DHs account, and he will distribute from there.

Tumbleweeds.

DS2's birthday came and went without so much as a card or a call.

DDs birthday - call from sister to DD to say grandmother will be calling shortly....

Tumbleweeds. No call, no card.

Get a Christmas card today - all names very formal - eg "Jacob" not "jake"; "William" not "billy" (not real names) when we always use the short version of their name and always have done. ANd signed "love from Johannesburg" . Not Mum and Dad or Mike and Sadie. Nope. We received a card from a large city.

I am in "ignore" mode, but ave to wonder what hey are up to....possibly playing the great game of wounded parent with evil Son in law, or "oh woe is me, I try and try"

shongololo · 14/12/2010 11:07

sorry honolulu, postd after you and didnt see your sad post..didnt mean to be insensitive. Blush

honolulu · 14/12/2010 11:22

Don't worry shongololo, not insensitive although I appreciate the apology!

And am Grin @ receiving a card from Johannesburg.

honolulu · 14/12/2010 11:45

I think you should send them one back from London. With: "PS: The other countries in Great Britain send you warm Christmas wishes!"

OlderandHappier · 14/12/2010 12:47

Honolulu, I don't see, IMHO, what is the problem (in general, I can see why it is for you in particular re guilt) to go off on hols and let your mother know when you're back.

This trip is something precious to you and you don't want it 'ruined'. I can understand that you don't like hard and fast labels, fair enough, but even in shades of Narc behaviour, the core dynamic is often envy. So, if you have something 'good', which might be material or immaterial (a holiday planned, a career promotion, a fab DH, your own IQ/looks/humour) then someone with narc tendencies, even if mildly expressed, often seeks either to better those qualities or if they can't, then diminish their worth by belittling comments, snide asides, pick, pick, pick until you doubt your choices, feel you don't merit your luck, your gifts, the good things you experience and thereby you divest yourself of them by self-sabotage. You don't want a cloud hanging over your hols caused by her wheedling some 'chance' negative comment into her rule-abiding, 'happy', 'jolly' Behaving Herself Mother Visit before you jet off.

you, as an autonomous adult, have a right to your own emotional space, boundaries, 'secrets' if you wish to call them that. And your `DC are very little and will not notice if Granny visits before or after New Year. Just my opinion Smile

OlderandHappier · 14/12/2010 13:09

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