"But we took you to Stately Homes!" - Dysfunctional parents?

[ItsGraceAgain]

It's October 2010, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Sorry for the late night rant, but I have to get this off my chest or I will never sleep. Yesterday my mum told me that everything I do annoys her. All the time apparently. Unlike my brother (who she is currently claiming is perfect, even though she spends half her life complaining about how dreadful he is to her...). Then she complained that I "never" visit (even though I was there 4 weeks ago). I very bravely pointed it out that she hadn't been to visit me for over 2 years. She then ranted that I hadn't lived in my current house for 10 years. Two years TWO YEARS. I got a bit shouty at that point. Think it may have been the first time I have ever raised my voice to her. I'm pretty sure she had been on the wine - it was after 5 pm after all. And the whole phone call kicked off with a very sarcastic comment that she thought I must have left the country as I hadn't called her for 3 days. Three days! Is that really such a long time?! Her stock response to any criticism is "I've been ill." This is completely true. She was diagnosed with breast cancer when I was pregnant (DD is now 3)...but she made it to my house while she was having chemo and now for some reason has decided not to bother for the last 2 or so years...I have now started retaliating with "I haven't been well either". Ante and PND, then PTSD after shocking delivery. A cocktail of drugs and a variety of counsellors/psychologists later and I am just about holding it together. I spend my bloody life running up and down the motorway to her house, even though she told me in the summer that the most important thing in her life was cigarettes, and without them she would have nothing. Why do i fucking bother? Thank you. Rant over. Sweet dreams...xxx

mentalmummy, i hope that you managed to get some good sleep last night!

I am plying my way through the books I ordered that arrived this afternoon! I am half way through Alice Miller's The drama of being a child. It is sad and interesting!

Mother left a message earlier, I did not want to speak to her, there have been a few times when messages have not be left on the answerphone and they ring off so not sure if that was her as well. I kind of knew there was some sort of purpose to her call due to the message she left. Low and behold it started with how are you and the children, do you want to have a break this weekend and I can have the children my first impression was, has she finished with her long term fiance, has something happened with her health again, is someone there listeing to this conversation she wants to impress! I am all cold with her and giving as little as possible away, eventually I say what is the point, she says you want me to go to counselling, I say I want you to accept, attone and apologise and you are not going to, you tell me you will do something in that voice and do nothing, I went no contact, I have spoken to you about things you pretend you don't know what I am talking about, there is no point as you will not do anything to make it better! Then the whole reason for the call and wanting the children over... she wants to make our family look normal to db's fiance who is coming to stay soon from abroad with db for xmas! of course she did not say this to start with, it came out along the way by certain things she gave away in the conversation... I have never met my niece or db's fiance. She then went on about seeing dn, so I said asked dc if they wanted to meet their cousin, they said yes, so I told mother how things would be, that the children would meet on neutral ground at a mutually agreeable time with the two mothers of the three grandchildren and that she, father and brother would not be involved. She was destraught she did not want that, she was coming out with all sorts and a lot of well I don't try to control anything, none of this is normal etc... I said goodbye... I then got on fb and messaged mother of dn and gave her my phone number, told her I understand she is coming over with dn, and if dn would like to meet cousins to call me to give me 48 hrs notice and we can have them meet in neutral, mutually agreed place.

I bet you anything now that the parents, including father that ignored my kids last xmas and throughout their birthdays and was abusive to me and would not listen to me, would not answer my calls when i wanted to tell him I found him abusive last year, will now try and do a number on me and the children... they will want things to look normal for this woman, I won't be part of it... I think db controlls her anyways as her exh sounds like my exh and takes her to court re kids and stuff... I am not that bothered with her to be honnest, it would be nice for the children to meet, even though dn is a baby, I am too scared to attach feelings to dn as I feel db will use any feelings I have to hurt me, I can guarantee he will introduce the baby to all his friends and extended family before my dc, as that is what df did with his fiance, db will probably go and take dn abroad to meet extended family before me also during the visit! I don't want that baby to be used to hurt me or my dc!

Hello again, fellow heroes. I'm not sure why I'm posting just now but got the urge! I've been reading lots of threads in Relationships, as well as this one, and have finally figured out I'm doing it as part of my understanding-and-separating programme wrt my sibs. I'm getting a clearer picture of how their marriages work (painfully!) and why they chose the partners they did. I feel distressed - these are the only people I've known all my life; we've been through so much together in childhood and well beyond. Yet they are locked into dysfunctional beliefs & patterns. They are bad for me now.

We've been drifting apart for years - since I married X#2, really, which is also when I reached breaking point. There isn't any real separation to be done, only the unilateral 'divorce' in my head. It all feels unbearably sad.

My mother visited yesterday, with a bundle of small gifts - nice ones, which means she wants something! Despite knowing how she works, I have to fight the temptation to feel guilty about my cynicism. I still want to love the nice mummy (her self-image). I deliberately fixed an image of her in my mind, the last time she raged at me, her face twisted in hatred, red & spitting. I pull it our whenever I feel guilty. I still feel disloyal.

It's all the business of "It can't have been that bad really" ... you know? It wasn't as bad as what some of you have experienced, but it was bad enough to fuck up all of our lives - and to have poisoned the minds of yet another generation, soon to have their own kids I imagine. I'm grieving over the stupidity of it all; the waste.

trs, I'm sorry the person you saw turned out to be bad news and very impressed that you kept away from them! It's great that you found a counsellor to trust - I hope this works out well for you :) If it's working, it will hurt sometimes but I thik you're prepared for that. The amount of work you've done by yourself is incredible. However 'holey' you might be feeling now, you are a powerfully intelligent & strong person!

Have you managed to identify your critic, rose? My therapists did find it important to know "whose" voice it is (and observe the changes) as that gives you more self-awareness and control over the negative talk. I'm using my 'volume knob' far more often now ... apparently I'm old-fashioned; most people prefer a digital remote

In my own defence: my DAB radio does actually have a knob!!

Grace, with that new found understanding do you think the depression you had before was related to that? That book I am nearly done with now, discussed the depression that people havee as they get cloeser to the real them!

I am thinking on how I am going to manage explaining to dn's mother the sit with parents, no doubt she will have been poisoned, I was thinking you know my father has bi-polar and you know npd runs along side that and makes for dysfunction, well I like to keep my children safe from all of that, if you want to know more one day we can... what do you think?

I wonder if she might find that all a bit much to take in, mh? Would it not be possible to keep it more general, something like "I don't have much to do with them these days, we can talk about later if you like"?

It is difficult, isn't it. I recently told one of Mum's friends how I really feel about her - kind of wishing I hadn't now. She disowned her parents due to abuse, but didn't seem able to recognise my feelings as related to hers in any way. Oh, well

Thanks for passing that on about the depression! Yes, mine was/is certainly related to breaking down my 'constructed self' ... but I'm too far in the thick of it, right now, to have any sensible perspective on it.

I had never put that together about the depression before Grace, I think you did mention it yourself a bit back, the book makes sense as to why that happens.

Yes you are right it probably is too much info for dn mother, and I need to draw it back and make it very basic.

I am sorry that your Mum's friend could not realate to you, maybe she could not bear to think she was friends with her own mother, harsh for her to have swapped one for another!

I am anticipating panic from mother and father, and I was thinking if they start trying to make despirate attempts to make it look like there is nothing wrong in this family they created, that one response is that they had plenty of time to sort this out and that a few weeks of panic will not sort it out, they will try and destroy me again to my face and behind my back to protect themselves now I realise, I need to be carefull, they will set the stage no matter what to look blameless and put on a wonderfull show, father will spoil them with money and praise, she will go all out with bending over backwards for their every need, and I will look like a liar! all the time me and my children out in the cold and father would not even give them the steam off his piss, what is sadder is that it would not occur to him that they have needs! it is all about him after all!

At least I won't be around for the after fall out, where father is broke, demanding money from mother, who will both them scream at me and take it out on me that he HAD to spend all that money on db's stepchildren etc... then mother will be complaining that she is tired etc .... gosh I am glad I won't have to deal with that crap afterwards...

mother and father will then fall out after the show, and mother will be furious that father did as he did, and then complain about how he wasted his money on usless inappropriate things anyway (which is true) and dn's mother will know nothing about it...

You wouldn't believe they have been divorced 20 years!

... and still playing the same old script!
You never know, their repetitive drama might even out-run The Mousetrap

you are funny Grace!

Did I ever tell you all what was the trigger/catalist for me cutting contact? It was that I knew that there was going to be fall out (Massive) over an extended family thing, and I threw myself under the train to the extended family rather than take what my parents were going to do to me, so that I could get away from them all so that they would all hate me, and never hurt me again, ultimate kick me inorder to free me! it had the byproduct of them being isolated from the extended family also which was in a way showing them what they had done to me with mothers family years before i was born, making them the outsiders as they had made me! warped and I did not fully understand what or why i was doing at the time, it I just knew I could not take anymore

I think now I wanted no way back to them as I knew I would be weak and let it continue and I did not want it to continue anymore!

I then got very very ill with swine flu, worse than any other flu I had ever had, and it took me a long time to recover from it, and then withdrew from freinds and other people for a spell, I needed rest and to be able to be alone and to be able to learn to not need people and to get strong and stand alone!

I just want to note on here that I feel really pleased with myself about something...

Was always v house proud person, then due to limited mobility, had to rest and house went into a right state, I just did the basics, got a cleaner in occasionally that type of thing! Well mobility has gotten much better, and I have been questioning why I have no motivation to clean when I can do more... I then thought that it was that previously I have always cleaned/tied up for other people never for me! I brought that to therapy the other day and we discussed a bit. Then I watched a tv programme the other day, it was filmed partially in a place that had some lovely positive memories for me, and it kind of gave me back that motivation to want to do nice things for me and to start to get the motivation back, so bit by bit (as still have some mobility problems) I have been catching up and getting things cleaner/tidier and I have been in a nice happy/relaxed mood in doing it. Normally tidying/cleaning is more about stress/anxiety and anger... I thought about this and I wonder if this has been brought from my grandmother (her mother died when she was 9 and she was forced to take on the role of mother), who gave this to mother who gave it to me, and I have probably given that rubbish to my children, hence this issue we have going on with mess (although I was always a tidy/clean child), and I started telling messy dd, that I am so pleased with myself that I am cleaning for me not for the visitor that was due earlier and how much better it felt. I told that to dd after she had a meltdown over something whilst tidying, she was continually trying to fight with me as she tidied her mess I had lumped on an armchair and had been refusing to sort out for her and she was angry that the milk left in her breakfast bowl had runined her homework, I reminded her that if she had taken bowl out, put her homework away that would not have been a problem, and that was all I said, I did not engage! I cancelled our visitor, which is sad, I felt that it was not the right time... I feel so much better and relaxed about this break through for me, it may seem like nothing but it really is massive for me to realise what has been going on and to find the motivation to do something for ME!

No, no, it's not 'nothing' at all mh! You've done exactly what I am trying to achieve - with no success so far
I've got myself into that state where I hate myself for making myself live in a dirty house, but won't do it just because I'm nagging myself ... aargh!! I just want to feel normal about doing the housework. I've tied this in with something you wrote earlier, about understanding that it is not necessary for anybody to be in control.

Throughout my life - until this year - there's been someone (at least one!) judging me, having expectations of me and setting targets. In the more relaxed spaces, I've taken on this role myself. I don't yet know how to live without dancing to someone else's tune (or playing their tune for them). I've also worked out that this is what flummoxed the counsellors in the loony bin - whenever we did team challenges, I went along with whichever twerp appointed himself leader. The mediators said they couldn't understand why I didn't take over. I do not know how to become the one in control; it's natural for me to fall in with whoever puts themselves in charge. This also defined my career - I was a fantastic second-in-command! I feel this is a big problem and I don't know how to overcome it yet.

Currently, I suppose I'm still reacting passively-agressively against my own blummin' inner critic. Gah!! I know this all boils down to self-worth / self-respect / self-confidence, so I guess it's helped clarify what I need to work on in therapy (if I ever get any more).

I'm delighted you've made the link between household tasks, self-care, your grandmother and your daughter, mh :) I'm also envious that you're putting it into practise! I wish your DD well with becoming more relaxed about tidying up and so forth, as you yourself get it all into perspective. It's great news that you're feeling a bit better now, too! I hope your health continues to improve.

I do not know how to become the one in control ... far less, how to live without a 'controller'. That's quite a big problem, isn't it?

Grace, I have managed to take control of certain situations, I am sure if you can look back that there have been times too that you have, one example for me, was as a teen I had this friend who was clueless about public transport as her parents had always driven her everywhere, where as I had never had that luxury so knew public transport well and had to show her what was what... do you remember anything like that from your past? I had a quick flick through the scripts book and saw that there was a woman behind man script, I have not looked at it in detail, do you think some of that may relate to what you have posted?

Grace, as I said above the thing that boosted me, was seeing as I am a very visual person that place from that happy memory, a happy time, that the ex tried to rewrite the history of, it brought back so many happy memories and it made me realise that the lies he had told others in that family court case were just that, he said he had never loved me, maybe he had not, the thing is at that time he was behaving like someone who loved me, and I now remember that, and it made me feel better about myself as yes I was conned by him, but he was a fantastic con artist and instead of believing that he had never loved me, my belief is that he had behaved as someone who had loved me and I had every right to have felt that he loved me if that is making sense and I am not a complete fool...

With the good thing, came badness, on and off dd2 has not reacted well to this change in me... I am dealing with it at the moment as is she, it is not something she is happy about and I think I can see a link now as to why she behaves as she does towards me, she confessed she hates to see me happy as she is not happy... I need to think on this a bit more... It has brought me down a little and made me angry for a bit earlier, overall i am still boosted...

Grace, have you looked into that feminist way of interacting, it reminds me of being assimulated in a star treck spin off or as a bee hive... working as a collective, there are elements that I like about it, I do think that for it to work in a family the adult part/interaction is not fully a collective! It would be interesting if there was another type of model, I maybe need to look into that side of feminism more at some stage!

I am glad that I am working through the stuff that has not been right in my life, I need to work on lots more still!

I do not know how to become the one in control ... far less, how to live without a 'controller'. That's quite a big problem, isn't it?

Grace, what you say there is true, it is something a hell of a lot of people have issues with, and many of them would not have the ability to see or to look...

Have you ever seen a relationship that is fair? I don't think I have, it has been rowing for control as my parents did or quiet submission as I did in my marriage, I have seen partners put each other down by undermining (joking), hiding things, all kinds of ways for one to be in control, it is a hard one!

What incredibly thoughtful posts, mh, thank you. No: I can't think of a relationship I know well, which is fair. I'm going to have to look for some models - great idea! I'll also find the script you referred to, as it sounds like one I can learn from. My last therapist was/is a feminist; she gave me a clearer perspective on many issues I hadn't considered from a feminist point of view. I'd been hoping to build on that by joining in the feminst threads here, but it didn't work out ...

Much to work on! You've been quite inspiring, mummiehunnie :)

Grace, do let me know how you get on x

Well, I have just had a turn up for the books, I replied to someone on a thread about the physical condition I have and I was having an interested read to see how they were getting on and I discovered a professional had responded with a link, and it had so much information that I was not aware of, and so much of it, not all relates to me and the two children, basically on top of physical difficulties there seems to be some neurological issues also, I knew I had dyslexia and there seems to be more to it... the issues that dd2 has been having seem related to this condition, which has been causing so many difficulties in our lives. The problem is this condition has two elements to it, there is one element that 10% of the population has and then there is the syndrome which is quite rare, there is not a great deal known about it anyways, the experts acknowledge it is a bit of a mystery still... and now I find out that there is this link between it and some of the issues that have been causing problems, and no one put the links together, to be fair they probbably did not realise... right I am off to see the gp with the print out to see if we can get this looked into further for dd2 and get her some help if possible, I am awere there may be no help available as there is no cure or real help for underlying condition, I will try for her x

Blimey, mh! That's amazing ... was this on mumsnet? Hurrah If you can get a referral to this specialist, or one of his team, you'll no doubt learn loads more and - cure or no cure - that will be fantastically useful to you and your family :)

I've never thought you were dyslexic, btw. There's something going on with your language but (I'm no expert) it doesn't look like dyslexia to me. Good luck with this, it could open lots of new doors for you ...

Well, I have had a good look around the internet, and there were links with dysbraxia type thing and autistic spectrum and there was one disorder that is pda ( it is a 50% girls/boys thing, it is about major meltdowns, school refusal, need to control others, good at school and taking it out at home, anxiety, obsession, friend problems at school etc... that sounds like dd2... I don't know if I am clutching at straws or what here... these things are inherited... all sounds similar to npd a bit as they use the word jackel and hyde character... will think on this a bit as am tired now and wondering if I am clutching at straws and juming to conclusions in a despirate bid to sort these issues out with dd2!

Grace can you elaborate a bit please with something going on with my language, was diangnosed as dyslexic as an adult, when retaking gcse maths!

Well, as I said I AM NOT AN EXPERT!!
Most dyslexics I've encountered have difficulty reading and are fairly consistent with their writing errors. You don't seem to have any problem reading, even quite dense texts, and your writing varies greatly in style. Sometimes you've very fluent & coherent; other times your posts are quite hard to read, almost garbled. I assume the harder to read ones are written when you're tired.

I've often wondered whether your issue is not so much word recognition, as some hiccup in the process that turns thoughts into writing. For all I know, though, you might be slaving away over a dictionary or using voice-to-text, so don't take anything I say as gospel