"But we took you to Stately Homes!" - Dysfunctional parents?

[ItsGraceAgain]

It's October 2010, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

bless you trs x I have to be honest and say I don't know what to say other than, you are not the first or last to have pnd, I didn't have it myself so all I can relate to it, is how I was rubbish when I was going through divorce and court cases with ex! Maybe you need to talk this out to get past it!

I have an other thread, which you said you read, post on it yourself, as there are a lot of people who have been very helpfull to me on there, who may be able to help you too x

marking this I need a read through,

I had a 'confrontation'(after 4 years) with my dad and I did everything Toxic Parents said not to do, so now I'm writing a letter,
I feel abit at sea

so need abit of inspiration

mh Have calmed myself down somewhat
Am realising this has a lot to do with the fact my mum used to go on about ds being behind. She honed in on his speech at the time. And, of course, compared him to his cousin a lot (golden dbs son who is same age as ds).
I think it still plays on my mind and so when teacher said that he is below average it really really hit a nerve. He is only in year 1 ffs, so in reality I should have pulled the teacher up or made her clarify what she meant. This was also what has upset me because I must improve my self esteem enough if I am to be a good enough advoacte for my ds. He is a very bright and his speach is testament to the fact that things can come along naturally by themselves in own time. Even strangers will say now 'oh doesn't he have an amazing vocab'.
He may just be a slow burner like his mum .
What this really makes clear to me is how much I can take the slightest piece of evidence and use it as a huge stick to beat myself with.
Who wouldnt get depressed if someone was continually following them around shouting 'your crap'!

fecking edna grrrr

How did the teacher put it to you? From years of parents evenings, they normally have a visual chart, with the national average, blocks with above average and below average and they indicate where your child is working in each subject, my younger one normally is working about average sometimes above, the oldest is working above average mostly, if a child was not working to the national average i would imagine that they would indicate where you child was working and no matter how your child is working, let me tell you they will send you away with some targets of things that need working on!

smithfield - I too have these sudden 'black holes' where I beat myself up about everything. It does feel like depression when I am in it but it doesn't last long these days and happens less frequently. I am sure as you heal you will gain more insight into why and when they happen. In fact your last post showed what amazing insight you are gaining. However it is horrible when you are in that black hole. To me it feels like horrible mood swings rather than long lasting depression but I lose perspective rapidly and like you think things like 'they would be better off without me' and 'what's the bloody point in life'. However I am soon up again and realise that whilst irrational thoughts they have a very rational basis i.e. an abusive childhood.

I am always slightly sceptical about all these targets and numbers at shool, although I know they are part of life and my ds starts school next year. We are such a target driven society. I was reading about home education and allowing the child to learn in their own way and time rather than meeting targets which are driven by the education system. Are we losing the humanity in education? I know that I couldn't home educate and I know that can have its drawbacks as well.

It did get me wondering that after years of being groomed by my adoptive father about how special and amazing I was going to be, I sometimes craved being loved just for being average

I think it is about time I named my inner voice

How did you come up with Edna Smithfield?

The PND does cloud those early memories with guilt doesn't it?

I know there were good days and that I did hold my ds and love him but it seems clouded by those awful memories of crying, long dark days and just wanting to have space from him. I just don't think I understood babies, that it is natural for them to want to be close. I just wanted to put him down a lot of the time. It was different with dd. I didn't love her more, I just understood babies more and I was in a much better place with regards my abusive childhood. I feel guilty about that and worry it has damaged my ds although he seems secure and normal.

But smithfield we have to forgive ourselves and learn from any mistakes. We in all probability had PND because we were deprived of love. But I think there are several types of PND, it is not a simple matter.

For example those of us who were depressed and may have had problems bonding initially because we had no inate template of love and motherhood to guide us. However we had enough insight to realise this and worked at it. Despite my many mistakes and at times complete ineptness when ds was a baby, I do love him dearly and therefore I trust that he will know it too

Then there are the mothers who are damaged beyond repair and in fact should never of had children (although we wouldn't be here and that wouldn't do!). They did not and have never loved their offspring (and I think this includes the golden children - that is not real love but jewel coated) in fact they don't like children very much. They did it because they thought they would be adored and mirrored. They would probably deny they ever had PND but then they maybe didn't. Depression carries guilt, self loathing and doubt. These are feelings and emotions something narcissists are not in touch with even if they have vague stirrings of them deep under their facade.

mh no charts, and nothing to work on. Which is also why dh and I went . She also said when I went {shock]..'well let's face it this is very middle class area and so parents tend to push their children so if we put 'smithfields ds' in another school in another area...he probably wouldnt be below average'

rose thank you for that. You always sound so...well together . Yes that's exactly it, I lose all perspective and become like a loose cannon.
I agree completely and having come from a family where my mother pushed and pushed me when I was very young because she couldn't bare for me to not reflect back to her an image of perfection. Like your sgf I guess, except I dug my heels in and wouldnt do it. It was my little way of not allowing her to control everything.
I have tried to let ds just be himself as a result of that. To let hime go at his own pace and to not push him. This teacher has made me doubt myself now though.

I came up with Edna by the way because...she is EEEEEVILLLL!
She also steals my sense of humour as well as my perspective-evil cow

Smithfield ... please stop feeling guilty. We all (on this thread) are "trained" to be guilty , by our shitty nasty parents.

You are doing this to yourself a bit my lovely. There is no need.

You want the best for your family & your ds , that makes you a good mum in my book.

So what if the teacher said your ds is "below averege"...hes only in year 1...many a child who is labeled below averege has went on to do great things....einstein, lord sugar ,loads of actors ,sportsmen ect. Who knows where your ds`s talent lies? Not the bloody teacher anyway.

Could you be a little depressed ?. You sound like i did 2 years ago.

I felt at that time ,that my family (dh and kids) would be better of without me.
And that dd4`s SN was somehow my fault.
That I must have done something wrong whilst pg , or neglected her/not held her enogh as a baby and cause her GDD and autism.(Her twin is healthy ,nt and was treated the same , but depression lays the guilt on)

Its a well known phenominom , that once a person is removed from a traumatic situation(toxic people being negative)...that they can get depressed.
Its almost like feeling sad is your "normal state" for so long , that once its gone , your body/brain chemistry is out of sinc and needs a help to get back to the way it should be.
ADS help with this. For myself, the ADs were a turning point.

It helped clarify everything in my memories..and made me realise that the negative toxics had caused me to be depressed, by their long term abuse.

Once they (toxics) were out of my life , and the ads were working i begain to see that Dh ,in all his wonderfulness , had chosen to be with me, to have children with me.

Someone so stonkingly brilliant wouldnt make a poor choice would they? . And that i deserved him to love me as much as he does.

I want to give you a ((hug))
Your son will be fine , hes got something we never had ...
A MUMMY WHO LOVES HIM !

loving edna btw

Hello trs. I have been reading your posts today and would like to offer you some hugs x

Sorry cross posted rose- Yyy. You are spot on again. I just didnt know what to do when ds came along. And at the same time I had my mother (the real one not edna) in my ear saying 'DONT pick him up'...'YOUR NOT feeding him AGAIN are you?'. She stressed me out to breaking point, and then befuddled me even more by picking him up herself. The one thing she did was bath him every night.
SHE couldnt even let me bond with my own baby even that had to be about her.
With dd she wasnt around and I knew what to do so I followed my own instincts and it was wonderful.

Not so long ago, I hogged several pages with my feelings of depression and lost-ness. You were very kind to me - trs, rose and others - pointing out what mh has said just now. In rejecting the parts of me that were defined by my family, I create spaces in which to grow as my self. For a time, inevitably, I feel as though I'm full of holes!

I still feel like a person made of crochet I can feel stuff happening, but it's well below the surface. In may ways I seem to be going backwards - I realise this tends to mean I'm on another trip round that spiral of recovery. My symptoms are the same, with subtle differences. One biggie for me is my inner critic. When I first started therapy, and learned to 'hear' it, the voice was a controlling male that judged me harshly: my dad and my ex-boss, who triggered all my childhood fears. After a while the voice became my own, and more fearful - warning me of potential criticism. It's gone back, now, to 'nasty man'. The voice has not changed, but I have: when I first recognised its existence I was powerless; now I answer it with reason, and turn down the volume.

I still feel afraid, though - ridiculously afraid. I hope this is fear of the unknown ... freedom from pointless criticism! I'm not taking anything for granted, mind you. I still lack energy, motivation and self-belief. I still feel hollow. I am still very, very alone. I've peen putting off phoning Mind out of - what? Shame?? WTF is that all about?! I'll make it tomorrow's challenge :)

Smithfield, forgive me if I'm remembering you wrong, but were you about to have your MHT assessment? How did that go?

I don't feel able or qualified to respond much to many posts atm, especially about your DCs and DPs, but please be sure I'm cheering you from the sidelines.

Oh thank you droves and bookcase.
You are all like the antithesis to edna so thank god for you all.
droves I was on Ad's and came off about 5 months ago and I do think I've been a bit extra bonkers since. I even contemplated ringing gp today.
Thing is I really would like to try again for another dc. Despite ishoos. Possibly, I think. Oh god not sure at all after today.
So for the time being I was not wanting to have to go back on them.
Am starting cbt in ernest next week.
Can I ask if you are still on them? Did you have cbt?

grace ...crochet can be a beautiful thing...
but i THINK i get what you mean.

Full of holes ? Like missing bits of the jigsaw , or missing great big chunks of memory ?.

Ive got holes in memory ...i remember being 4 , then theres nothing until im 7 , then its blank until im 10 ish.
Starting to get things returning , but not much , and tbh i dont trust those "memories".

Like a dvd thats sticks and jumps on fast forward.

Part of me wants to know what ive forgotton, and part of me is terrified of finding out.

Well done GRACE for shouting down that negative voice!

grace It didnt go well but I dont want to post about it tto much on here because I dont want to put others off the process. I just had a bit of bad luck with who I got. I know others like yourself thisis and now mh have had good experiences so please dont anyone be put off!
Progress though that I listened to my instinct and got out. I have now sought help privately, a lady I saw three years ago but remembered I had a connection with her. Sessions begin next week.
The crochet anology is exactly how it currently feels. Like I'm full of holes, I'm hoping this lady can sew it all back together.

Im not on them now smithfield , but was on them for 4 years , and it was very hard comming off ad`s . I tried a few times before i got off them.
You have to do it very gradual .

First time i tried , i stopped the AD`S to fast and i went back to square one.

Cbt is very good ...im lucky best mate is cbt therapist and she helps when im having a wobble. IT DOES WORK !

.... i have to add Smithfield , with the cbt , you might feel worse to begin with...dont worry it will pass and you will learn lots of things that are very helpfull.

I am not that together. I actually lost it a bit with dd today which doesn't happen often but we are both ill and I was up half the night coughing. I really shouted at her about something which was entirely unavoidable on her part, she is only 17 months

She does this thing where she covers her eyes if she sees a scary picture in a book and after I shouted at her she did it to me

I think she was shocked because it happens rarely and I know I was completely in the wrong, scaring my own daughter like that. So I had a black hole day. I think the difference now is that whilst yes I feel guilty and sad and I hugged my dd and tried to make it up to her, I don't beat myself endlessly with that stick. An incident like that previously would have spiralled me into depths of guilt and self loathing that actually it would have been more likely to happen again because I felt so low.

I make mistakes and I know I can lose my temper with the kids. I don't smack or hit or say nasty things but I can really shout and I am sure my face is twisted with anger which must look horrific to them when they know every line that decorates my face. It does upset them. It is happening less because I am learning to express anger more healthily. After all kids can and do make us angry at times so there must be a way to deal with that anger healthily and unabusively. Sometimes the anger is justified if they have overstepped a boundary and sometimes it is nothing to do with them but our own tiredness and mood or when the demands just tip us over the edge

One thing that helps is giving my kids words for their feelings and allowing and encouraging them to express it. When I lose my temper and my ds shouts back we might have a chat about it afterwards and he will tell me he was angry with me for losing my temper.

If it was unjustified and I was just being a moody cow, I will say to ds 'sorry I shouldn't have lost my temper, that was wrong'. I don't qualify it with a 'but you did such and such' because that puts the blame back to the child. I was just wrong, end of.

Do you think this helps children, to have a sense of when they have been wronged by being validated? I hope so because this is an area of parenting I still find hard.

I got offered cbt smithfield but I was in the middle of a more psychoanalytical style of counselling and didn't want to mix the two styles. I might still try it so do let me know how you get on

I was on ads after ds and I definately remember an adjustment period when I came off them. It is hard so I suppose it is that self nurturing skill again, try to be kind to yourself in any way possible knowing that your body is adjusting without the ads.

Grace - I have never given much thought to what form my inner voice takes. Your post has made me think about this. It may help to be able to turn it down if I know its form more clearly?

I wonder what will fill those holes Grace? Scary but exciting as well?

actually rose it will be a bit of a mix between person centred and cbt. I can only try and see how it goes. For me the relationship with therapist is so key because I have huge trust issues. I think I can work with this lady so let's hope.
I think validating definately helps and is much better for dc's but with mine I do think sometimes they get confused because they wonder why sometimes I've shouted and said sorry and sometimes I have said I shouldnt of shouted but their bahaviour was wrong because of xyz.
You are only human rose so Im glad you arent beating yourself up over it. Do you think it is possible to never shout or lose patience? Is that/or would that be a sterile environment in some way because there is a whoe range of emotions that is normal for us to express. Do suppress and never express that full range ever would be abnormal wouldnt it?
Yes dd covered her eyes because I was crying after shouting at dh on the phone. I then told her it wasnt daddy I was shouting at the gardener (we dont even have a bloody gardnener).
So she gave me her cinderalla sticker from the dentist and put a glittery clip in my hair which I forgot to take out for the school run .

sorry barely making sense now for typos. I must take my nutty, bonkers self to bed now. Ive told edna she can sleep on the street tonight. Goodnight all. x

ha!ha! Your posts actually sound very coherent and insightful smithfield. It is edna who is bonkers and I think I know who is the real you

Goodnight all, sleep well