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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"But we took you to Stately Homes!" - Dysfunctional parents?

1002 replies

ItsGraceAgain · 01/11/2010 21:19

It's October 2010, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

OP posts:
Mummiehunnie · 23/11/2010 21:14

what advice would you like?

I sympathise with you x

snowden1 · 23/11/2010 21:36

Oh, I don't know. I really dont. I am just sad that I have parents like this.

I am not a bad person and I have fab kids and a lovely husband. But why do they have to be so difficult?

If I say anything it is my fault, blah blah (not going there) I just feel so sad I am made to feel the bad person.

I have been to therapy and we have talked about that I am an adult and I have my own family. But when I give my parents a little bit into my life, they let me down. Again. Again and again. I am totally mindboggingly compulsive about not being late for anything after spending my childhood waiting for my parents to pick me up at 5.15 and not 7.15. Oh my god I should be grateful that they picked me up. Although it was two hours late. For fucks sake. So many times as a kid I waited in the door of a tourist information centre, as the wind whipped around, waiting for my parents to turn up. And when I said 'you are late' all I got was 'at least we are here'

IfGraceAsks · 23/11/2010 21:49

I sympathise too, snowden :( You know it's not really your fault, don't you?

mh, I got Lower rate Mobility on account of the CFS. It's a fixed rate thing, but for me it will cover the cost of a taxi to the nearest town twice a month - that's amazing, I can visit civilisation once in a while Grin
It's only 3 months until I get my 'pension' money - again, this will be peanuts (just enough to bugger up my benefits, gah!) but, despite the problems it will bring, it should be enough to buy a cheap car and that'll make a huge difference. I'll be able to finish the decorating too ... no more excuses!!

SL, I wonder if you're putting a lot of expectations on your Xmas holiday in terms of your marriage? What are your chances of just letting your hair down for the trip: no agenda, no issues, just relax??

roseability · 23/11/2010 23:15

snowden1 - your parent's response to you questioning their lateness just about sums up these martyr type parents doesn't it? It is like by virtue of the fact that they gave birth to us (in my case they didn't but hey) they are wonderful parents. I really think these narcissistic, abusive, damaged freaks have no concept of the idea that you have to work at relationships and earn respect and love.

SoLonely - I am sorry to hear about the difficulties with your dh. He is going to have to adapt to the new you, accept your boundaries and support you. I must say I was a little anxious when you said he had been violent in the past and unsupportive in some of his comments about your recovery. That is not right whatever you have been through together. I am glad to hear you are urging him to be more considerate and change his ways. The question is can he? Will he? How damaged has he been by his childhood? I am not surprised others positive comments about their dh have triggered you.

Your holiday sounds like a big step. I too find I feel nervous at the thought of travelling and I worry I am becoming a bit too attached to staying at home or doing more local holidays. I wonder why that is when I always wanted to travel? Travelling with kids can make any parents anxious so don't put too much pressure on yourself. It is an adventure so take it one step at a time rather than getting overwhelmed with the whole picture.

Does anyone have pictures of their parents as young people? Tonight I found pictures of my grandmother on her wedding day to my grandfather. She was a beautiful woman but what struck me was her smile, there is something wrong about it. She seems to bear her teeth very slightly and her eyes don't show the emotion her smile is trying to. I can't really put my finger on it and maybe I am looking for too much in a snippet of time? Another photograph shows me on her knee as a one year old. We are at the forefront of the photo and this time she really is bearing her teeth in an almost snarling smile. My mother (her daughter) is in the background, blurred and insignificant. My grandmother looks full of health, youth and vitality but not in any genuine way. It is like the emotions of the time don't line her face with worry in the normal way. It is strange and uncanny.

When I saw her recently it was the strangest sight, to see an obviously broken woman but no outward signs of this. Lines and wrinkles did not decorate her face in the normal way a normal human life of happiness, worry, sadness and joy would be painted on the face of an elderly woman. I honestly thought that I could just see a mask that had been uncreased and uncracked by the damaged facade that lay just beneath. Yet now and then I caught a glimpse of the real damaged woman, probably a child ruined by abuse and forced to live this false and narcissistic life. I would catch it as I drove to pick her up from her hotel, before she had realised I was there and she looked like a twisted, strange and ugly woman standing there with yellow hair and cold blue eyes.

I really believe that narcissism underpins these toxic parents and I am fascinated by how it creates these almost ghoulish humans or half humans. And you catch snippets of it now and then in photographs or the strange things they say. There is a small part of me that feels sorry for them, for the small child they once were humiliated, beaten and unloved in all probability.

Yet I cannot forgive completely as this thread is testimont to the fact that a damaged childhood can be overcome and the pattern not repeated. My grandmother always seemed like the nicer of my two parents but she was quieter, colder and most certainly an abuser too. I can see it now oh so clearly and it makes me desperately sad for my birth mother who was mentally ill and I cannot help but wonder if this is in part to do with having my grandmother as a mother. I see now that my adoptive father groomed me with love and adoration initially and my grandmother was jealous and hated me because of this. But it was not real love and adoration but more like a seduction, I was seduced into thinking I was the apple of his eye if I just mirrored the narcissistic image he was obsessed by. When I tried to go my own way the abuse started and then she sat back and did nothing and even partook in it herself on occasion.

I still have a lot of hatred and anger towards her and this made her visit difficult but I also saw, really saw, who she really is and that was strangely comforting. I really am believing it wasn't me and it wasn't in my head.

roseability · 24/11/2010 10:01

realise there are awful typos in my last post Blush

Bare and baring her teeth not bear and bearing

Testament not testimont

Ray81 · 24/11/2010 10:19

Hi guys,

Havent had a chance to catch up but just thought id let you all know that i have heard from my contents insurance re the items stolen when my sister had her parties and they will not cover any of it, because she let them into the house.

i can bet you any money that they will still want ME to replace the mystery Ipod docking station and guess what NO FUCKING WAY. I have had enough and quite frankily feel like i dont want to see any of them EVER again right now. I am so ANGRY.

Mummiehunnie · 24/11/2010 10:42

can you take your ds to the small claims court?

snowden1 · 24/11/2010 11:55

Yes. After twenty odd years I have now started accepting that it isn't my fault.

Roseability, you have summed it up wonderfully.

Ray81 · 24/11/2010 12:58

Mummiehunnie, Its just not worth it tbh the hassle it would cause would be major.
I am just going to stand firm re the ipod docking station and say NO i am NOT replacing it because i havent seen it. I wonder how they would feel if i did ask for the money for my items from her, they would just laugh at me.

therealsmithfield · 24/11/2010 13:26

ray The Ipod docking station was their repsonsibility not yours. They brought it into the house along with the unsavoury people who then stole it along with your possessions. Very Angry on your behalf. Stand firm in as clam a manner as you can.
Have you thought anymore about moving away?

snowden Sorry your parents were like this. It clearly still hurts when they deliberately (or seemingly so) make you fill missed, unimportant. I imagine this behaviour has had a huge impact on your self esteem and ability to feel important to yourself an others?

rose great post... and it's funny but you reminded me how I always thought my mother's entire face looked like a mask. Exactly how you described it, my mother's face just looked void or anything really, particularly emotions like joy or happiness.
Perhaps you are happier holidaying at home now that you have distanced your self from you Gm and SGF. I do think a lot of the urge to travel is a deeply subconcious urge to escape as far from their grip as possible

grace maybe we should all club together and send you away to south of France or somewhere similar.

solonely Just wanted to echo what other's have said really. Just try not to put too much pressure on yourself. Relax as much as you can and just let the holiday unfold without placing too much expectation on it.

therealsmithfield · 24/11/2010 13:39

So have finally heard from my dad today. I feel proud that I used it as an opportunity to re-assert my boundaries wrt new gfriend and their planned visit.
I just said I would prefer to leave until after christmas because this time of year needs to be all about dc's.
He seemed ok with that but I wasn't too surprised that Dcs christmas presents (vouchers) will now go in the post and no pre-xmas visit from him. Self interested twat Smile.
At the end of the conversation I asked if middle db had minded that my dad had blurted his news out to me (he had let me know middle db's wife was expecting third dc). To which he replied 'Oh..yeah she has lost the baby' Shock I mean WTF? Does he not think that, that piece of news would be important to me? Clearly not on his radar I guess, as not about him. Whereas telling me about the pg in the first place was on his radar as it was an opportunity to pit me and db against each other again.
Perhaps I am being too paranoid with last deduction but really makes me Hmm.
So glad I am seeing the light wrt my father I need to be on my guard and keep myself emotionally safe from him.

droves · 24/11/2010 14:27

Smithfield , im sorry about your visit today.

Sounds like your dad is as insensitve as ever . Hope your sil (&db )is ok. Horrible thing to mc, poor girl.Sad.

Im glad your set the boundry with him about xmas. It will be a good thing for you to celebrate it without all the toxicity.

Mummiehunnie · 24/11/2010 15:59

Wow re his reaction to christmas and the mc!

At the end of the day you have what you needed regarding christmas, so there is a positive there x

roseability · 24/11/2010 16:13

Smithfield - if there is anything I have learnt over my years of recovery and realisation, it is that these kind of people really are capable of what you convince yourself you are being paranoid about. But there is that little voice again isn't it, the one we internalised partly to protect ourselves (it can't be that bad) but also it was suggested to us by our abusers as a means of manipulation (what! you are paranoid/melodramatic/sensitive). In short so we wouldn't talk or guess that we were being emotionally manipulated

I have no doubt your father is very capable of that kind of insensitivity and emotional selfishness. And hey even if he isn't on this occassion it is like the boy who cried wolf in a twisted way. Emotionally abuse someone enough and you can never be given the benefit of the doubt

I am so happy you are setting boundaries and distrusting him. The only way to deal with such people or to cut them out completely. I don't see it as putting up a barrier never to let people in and being suspicious forever. I do love, trust and open up to people who are human and whose faces show the lines of real emotions.

However from my own experience never, ever, ever trust a narcissist. The cost is too high for them to change, most of them are too far down that path.

therealsmithfield · 24/11/2010 17:31

I used to think this total lack of empathy was a generational thing. You know men of a certain age but I just dont buy that.
I cant contact middle db because I wasnt supposed to know about the pg in the first place and well we aren't that close thanks to my parents.
I am still shocked that he managed to talk about his health, when he could visit if not in December but gave no thought to the loss of a gc.
I am happy to not be seeing him before xmas. I listened to my instincts for once and it paid off. I managed to feel a lot of grief in the past week and it is a good thing because I needed to see my father for who he really is.

therealsmithfield · 24/11/2010 17:33

rose I think I am just beginning to trust that voice now, and it is a good thing. It is there to protect after all.

therealsmithfield · 24/11/2010 17:35

Sorry I just realised I am just repeating myself. Processing I guess Smile.

Mummiehunnie · 24/11/2010 22:21

Rose, that post re innervoice was so very helpfull x thanks x

toadinabathingsuit · 25/11/2010 14:49

De-lurking to respond to Roseability's post from Tuesday. Re your grandmother and her "mask". I've often thought about the story of "Dorian Gray" when reading posts on here in the past. I'm sure you all know it, the story of an evil young man who never aged and stayed beautiful; all the time, his portrait it the attic grew more and more monstrous/ugly/vile with each evil deed Gray committed. I sometimes think our parents are Dorian Grays and we are their portraits in the attic. They commit their evil deeds and project all of their guilt/anger/hatred onto us and soon we turn into what they want us to be, the embodiment of all that is bad about them, a deflection from the fact that it is in fact they that are evil. Because they've foisted that onto us, they swan around like flawless, blameless saints, we are the ones that feel ugly and ashamed when we've done nothing wrong.

Best wishes to you all, your posts give me lots to think about and much comfort that I'm not alone. I wish I had the time and emotional strength to engage a bit more, I will try in the future.

therealsmithfield · 25/11/2010 16:56

sorry for posting here but dont know where else to turn. I feel like I am hitting rock bottom at the moment. Feel like I am failing at everything. Marriage, which is sexless-and as dh pointed out last night it is hardly unlikey given that fact, there will be any more children. I dont blame him, he feels used. We have sex to produce children. That's it. I am emotionally abandoning everyone, my children included and I dont know how to be any other way.
I cant even manage to keep my own house clean and tidy or do basic stuff.
They would all be better off without me. Its how I feel. I dont mean death but physically just leaving. Im just a shit mother, really I am.

Mummiehunnie · 25/11/2010 16:59

do you want to pm me trs? I will be around later tonight?

I have a thread ongoing about my difficulty with parenting...

Can you expand a little on this thread?

therealsmithfield · 25/11/2010 17:02

Am I in depression? Are these feelings real? If it is depression I have no idea where the illness ends and I begin.
dont think I could ever tell to be honest I've lived with this shitty illness for so long now.
I am just so tired of everything being such a bloody massive struggle.
I am like a child trying to do a grown ups work.
It struck me probably for the first time today how bloody hard I am to live with. It's just not fair on my family is it.

therealsmithfield · 25/11/2010 17:04

Sorry mh-cross posted. You have enough going on mh. I read your thread. Feel so Sad about everything you are going through.
I think I was like your dd growing up.

Mummiehunnie · 25/11/2010 17:09

I am not sure if you have had any therapy, it is so hard to keep up with everything everyone is going through/ has gone through!

One thing I realise from therapy is that when you let go of bits of you the family brought into your personality, it is like you regress and then grow the bits of you that were pushed down when you were younger, hence the feeling young, regression thing, I have had that at times too.

I am sorry you were in pain as a child as dd is x

therealsmithfield · 25/11/2010 17:11

Its a lot about ds, have always had a lot of guilt about him. I didnt hold him enough as a baby. I am crying now writing this, I felt I abandoned him. There were nights I lay in spare room with ear plugs in and dh got up with him and brought him in for feeds.
Teacher at parents evening said he is below average. I feel it's my fault. If I hadn't had pnd, if I had interacted with him more.
I havent even got the self confidence to sort it out.
No-one at school has read with him now for 3 weeks.The thought though of tackling it fills me with dread. His teacher looks at me like Im crap. It's like she knows who I am underneath.
Sorry ramble.
I think it's all triggering me as my experiences at school were all rubbish.

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