The Brave Babes Battle Bus - Carry On Past The Offy!!

[Mouseface]

Well, this is our tenth thread so we are throwing a little party!

Everyone is invited! No booze of course, soft drinks and mocktails only!

I'm Mouse, hello.

There are all kinds of drinkers on board the bus. Come and join the journey, whatever stage you are at, drinking, cutting down, wanting to stop or sober already.

Everyone is welcome to post here. Come say hi.

The journey so far is below.

JWN's original thread

Thread two

Thread three

Thread four

Thread five

Thread six

Thread seven

Thread eight

Thread nine

LRD

I'm not being aggressive or judgemental.

I am asking, very gently I feel, if you can explain to me - and, perhaps, to yourself - what it is that you get out of drinking.

When I came to the point where I finally sought help for my drinking - in my case, this was AA, but I know other things work for other people, even if they never worked for me - I was terrified by the very thought of stopping drinking. My life was shit WITH a drink - how shit was it going to be without, I wondered?

I wonder how I would have answered my questions if someone had put them to me at the time? Because, looking back, I cannot see what I was getting out of the drinking.

Well, that is to say, when I look back to my drinking aged 20, even though it was already abnormal, I can see a lot of point to it. Drinking was part of good times, intense conversations, getting laid, all-night parties, glamorous dinners. I doubt that drink really improved any of them, but they were fun nevertheless.

When I started stopping, drinking brought none of those things. I barely ever went out socially to drink - partly because bad things happened but also because no one invited me. I went to my local sometimes, otherwise to the off-licence. Drinking by then was two bottles of wine (plus whatever I'd drunk in the daytime) in front of Casualty. Glamorous it was not.

So there you are - two points on the spectrum of my drinking. One made sense - the other didn't.

I suppose my remarks are really just a wondering aloud which one you feel closer to and how you feel about that?

apologies if I have offended you, it was not intended.

Good morning SAF, good to have you back!

Diabolik

no, I don't really need to ask. But then, that's because I don't really believe you.

You talk about how drugs fill a void and dropping one means you have to pick up on another, which would imply, to paraphrase the Lloyd-Webber song, "any drug will do" - and yet, when pressed on it, you say that of course drugs aren't interchangeable, no way does nicotine do the same as cocaine (a stimulant) or alcohol (a depressant.)

So which is it? Do YOU believe you? Is your problem just that you are an addictive personality - or do you have a very specific problem with alcohol (and, apparently to a lesser extent, with cocaine)? Because, if it's the latter, then that's what you need to address first.

I don't for a second doubt the existence of this void. A lot of us feel it and have to find a way to live with it, sometimes urgently. But all the time you persist in believing that, by the sort of magic that eludes even alchemists, a simple carbohydrate can fill a complex and long-lasting emotional void, and that that carbohydrate is interchangeable with various other organic and inorganic chemical compounds, you are fucked.

Hope I am making sense.

I thought Diabolik was saying he had felt the void since he was about 14 and needs drink and/or drugs to fill it.

But, of course, if you have that void and then - by abstaining - DON'T fill it - you are going to suffer from it more.

So maybe a bit of both.

I am happy to report that I no longer feel that void and so have no need to attempt (and fail) to fill it with chemicals.

MIF, thanks for the apology, it is appreciated.

If I may say, I think you have a rather fixed idea of what alcoholism is and how it works, based I assume on your own experiences and reading, and you're eager to evangelize about this. I find it difficult to read posts that are so full of rhetorical questions and negative aspersions. I feel quite vulnerable and nervous here (apart from anything else, I thought it best not to namechange so I am quite identifiable). At your prompting, I tried to share some of my thoughts about drinking and stopping drinking. Your response was to question my sanity.

That is (obviously) completely unhelpful. You may think that it is obvious that no-one who drinks is thinking rationally. You may think it is obvious that I'm not thinking rationally about stopping drinking. But I'm trying. If all you want to do is to criticize from on high, why post here?

If I sound upset it is not because I am 'stirring' (as you suggested of someone else, merely because they disagreed with you), but because I do feel attacked by your posts.

LRD - please don't feel that you can't or shouldn't post here because of what MIFLAW has said to you.

I, for one, really value your input and know just how hard it is to write your inner most fears down and read them back.

You are sharing so much of yourself with complete strangers and THAT is what this thread is about.

Sharing and supporting each other.

I have to say that MIFLAW is harsh and sometimes I find his posts agressive and very hard to swallow.

Please keep posting! You are very welcome here!

Thanks Mouse. You are so kind, I hope you know how much I appreciate it.

I suppose this thread is a bit like the first time you admit out loud that you're an alcoholic - for me that was a while ago, but it's like doing that on a different level when you can talk to people about how it feels. A sort of holding-my-breath feeling, you know? Sometimes I do just want to huddle up and pretend it's not happening but that doesn't ultimately get me anywhere!

Anyway: day 6 to get through, and I will not be drinking today!

SAF you got it - I learned a lot when I stopped but never got past that one.

MIF - If I can have some of that magic potion - I would be very great-full

Also I can see where the confusion comes from - I do ramble on a bit :)

Venus - you are right live as substance abuser doesnt make it a full live

Hi, is anyone else having a problem with eating? I eat, then my stomach feels painfully full even if it's only been a pretty small serving. Is that anything to do with stopping drinking?

Red

I suggested someone was "stirring" because they came onto the thread purely to attack AA without proposing an alternative to people who might want that sort of help with their drinking. This is a world away from anything I have said to you.

Again, I am genuinely sorry if you are upset by what I have said. But if someone else said to you, what I like about x is that it gives you boring thoughts, would you not find it odd?

I imagine that most of us have a fixed idea about what alcoholism is and how it works and I would hope that it is based on our own experience. I imagine that you have had your fill of advice on alcoholism NOT based on personal experience - from doctors, magazine articles, pamphlets, government guidelines, and all the rest of it - and that that is why you have come onto a thread like this.

I think there is nevertheless a certain amount of agreement that alcoholism is progressive, incurable and potentially fatal (I think, for example, that the WHO endorses this definition.) In that context, I make no apology for not lying to people and telling them that, for example, I think that cutting down will work for them when, in my (limited, but nonetheless fairly broad) experience I have seen that not to be the case.

Why do I post on here? It is a good question. I am quite a way away from my last drink, live a happy and full life (as a direct result of not drinking) and have only met one person from these threads in real life (and that was in AA, quite by chance, about a year after we first "met" here.)

Well, I suppose the answer is that, by posting here, I help to maintain my own sobriety. And also because I have seen people die of this illness - their names would mean nothing here, but they were real people with a lot of life left in them - and would not wish it on my worst enemy. If I can help anyone stop suffering from alcoholism (which, again purely from my experience, does involve complete abstinence) then I am glad to do so.)

I also have to say that the MOST helpful thing anyone has ever done for me was to question my sanity.

However, as I say, what I share here is essentially for my own benefit - I don't want to go back to the madness - so do feel free to ignore it.

LRD - I know that feeling all too well, the wanting to hide. If I could, I'd have a giant duvet to hand for that very purpose!

Every one of us has a differnt way of dealing with our alcoholism. And by posting our feelings, fears, thoughts, highs and lows, we really do help others.

What works for some (AA) may not work for others but that doesn't make it wrong. Everyone has to find their own source of support and for some, it's this thread and the knowledge that they can come on here and NOT BE JUDGED!

I think sometimes, we just have to read and move on.

Don't take things to heart LRD. I know that you are feeling a bit prickly right now but you are a valued poster on this thread.

And I appreciate everyone who contributes on here.

Diabolik

There is no magic potion, I'm afraid.

Just a lot of hard work.

I know that you are wary (perhaps rightly so) of the "God" element of AA, so I will try to keep it resolutely secular - but essentially it involves stopping drinking first; using that "space" to get honest with yourself; looking at your faults and fuck-ups; doing what you can to put those right, rather than worrying about wrongs done to you; and then trying to live a good life.

It's not for everyone, but, for me, it is infinitely preferable 9and more fun and interesting) than getting wasted.

'But if someone else said to you, what I like about x is that it gives you boring thoughts, would you not find it odd?'

No. In fact, demented and I both appear to have the same issue about 'switching' off. I think 'simple' is more accurate than 'boring' - as I said drinking helps me avoid the boredom. You'd know this if you'd read my post, instead of skimming it for things to criticize.

I appreciate you sharing your reasons for posting here and it is great that you've managed to stay sober for so long. But I think you will realize if you read your posts over, that you are not really reading what other people say, but only talking about yourself. If that helps you it is fine by me, but when you start criticizing me it becomes hurtful. I'd rather not have to 'ignore' it; I'd rather you gave it a rest where I'm concerned, please.

Christi - when I first stoppe drinking I got terrible indigestion and heartburn when I ate. And I got shooting pains in my stomache when I ate too.

No idea if it is booze related though. Hope you're ok.

Mouse

I'm not judging anyone.

I met someone last night who I hadn't seen for months.

He came to AA drunk - as he did the last time I met him. Last time, he was complaining that his marriage had broken down and his kid hated him. He smelled of booze. He didn't stop drinking.

Last night, he complained that his wife is now kicking him out and his kid now blanks him in the street. He smelled of booze, but also of rough sleeping; and, when I shook hands with him, his hand was sticky to the touch. He still doesn't want to stop drinking.

I told him that the drink will take the coat off his back and the shoes off his feet if he carries on. He does not believe me. We will have to wait and see, but I have an awful feeling that I will be proved right.

In no way do I judge that man because it could just as easily have been me. Remember, too, that he was not born a rough sleeper - he has drunk himself out of a home and a relationship.

But, fuck me, you would not convince me to try it his way for all the money in the world.

Mouse I'm fine, was just wondering if it was a common symptom. No problems here if it means I eat a little less! Might start exercising too.
Didn't get a chance to celebrate DH's birthday yday owing to DD2's illness. Steak tonight followed by salad and gorgonzola, yummmmmm. MIGHT have a glass of DH's champagne havn't decided yet.

littlered I have been looking into Meditation as a way of diverting my brain energy into something peaceful... have you considered it?

LRD

I did read your post. I quoted directly from it. I'm sorry if I nevertheless got the wrong end of the stick.

Of course I am only talking about myself - I am not in a position to talk about anyone else. But rest assured that I do read posts very carefully before responding. If I just wanted to disagree with people, I would go on AIBU.

I will avoid criticising you in future, if that's what you feel I have done - though again, as far as I can see, I just asked if, when you said that you liked drink because it gave you simple, boring thoughts, you meant it. You have now said that, no, you didn't. So now I understand.

If there is anything I can do in the future to help you get out of a situation where you cannot switch off or avoid the many boredoms of life without a drink (have I read that right? - again, apologies if not) let me know and I will be happy to help.

MIFLAW

What you said to LRD made her feel judged. That is not what this thread is about and you know that.

I was mearly 'sticking up' for her. Not that she needs it or asked me to.

And so what if you are proved right? Surely that is his choice? He knows what he stands to lose and to a certain degree has lost most of his life already. Why dose he go to AA? Why bother if he is as close to losing it all? How can AA help him?

Again, that was his choice to continue drinking. That could be anyone of us, no?

BUT we chose not to go there. Not today. We have made the decision not to drink today.

Christi - that sounds like a wonderful evening. Make sure you stay in control if you do drink.

SAF - I agree.

MIFLAW - that came across as really smug and patronsing towards LRD.