Another DickFace to Add to The Pile

[PfftTheMagicDragon]

....Of men that you thought wouldnever betray you but then did it anyway!

My DH has always been loyal. To a fault. Never cheated. Was cheated on in the past by girlfriends, worshipped the ground I walked on. Good sex life, with dry patches, we had started about a year ago to spice things up, toys, bondage.

Turns out, he's been internet flirting/sexting/fucking her on MSN!!

Delightful

It started 6 days ago. I have seen his phone. And the e-mails and a picture that they exchanged.

And now I am just like all the others. I did ask him how it felt - To be just like all the other cheating dickwads that I read about on here. If it was worth it, if he was thinking about what every other weekend would feel like when he was telling her how much he likes her wet pussy.

Super.

I'm angry, can't you tell?

"And even though, he thinks he has done nothing wrong (fucks me off in itself) he KNEW that I would think it was cheating, and he admitted this."

This, for me, would be the crux of the matter. He can't claim ignorance of your specific boundaries as an excuse. He has intentionally been deceptive to serve his own ends. The chasm between his words ("I would never hurt you") and his actions is vast. In these circumstances forgiveness wouldn't even be on my radar.

Pfft you are in a state of shock. What I would urge you to do here, is to go into fact-finding mode and not decision-mode just yet.

You absolutely need to know the following:

• Was there an intention to meet in RL?
• Would he have gone through with it if there had been an assignation planned?
• How did this start (by whom, too)?
• The content of the messages and interactions.
• What was disclosed about their respective relationships/spouses.
• Whether anything like this has happened before.

This will take some time to establish. Don't rely on him as the source of this information either. Check phone bills and if necessary, contact her for her version of events. When someone has lied to you - and would still lie given half the chance, it makes no sense to rely on them exclusively, for the truth. Check that forum too for posts made and the dialogue between them, as this is in the open domain.

If possible, get the DCs cared for and invent any excuse for needing people's help, because you two will need a lot of time to talk. Make this all about questions now though, and not decisons.

Your H is minimising this and possibly always was. But he cannot pretend that he didn't know this was a deal-breaker.

Unless someone in an emotional affair ends it of their own volition before discovery, my default is to think that this would have become sexual eventually. These online and virtual relationships become dangerous much more quickly than if each interaction were face-to-face. Therefore boundaries are crossed all the time.

So sorry for you. It is truly shit, but bide your time and establish some truth.

Sorry but I could not move forward from that. It was EXACTLY how my XP reacted and after a few rows and a lot of simmering anger, we just ended up carrying on. Until my snooping and anxious checking turned up the same thing again. And again.

But your situation is not mine and you must do what is best for you and your children, regardless of what anyone on MN thinks one way or t'other . We'll be here to support you with whatever works for you.

Pfft, don't have much to add but my support. My H lied & betrayed me (not quite the same as this) & I kept trying to forgive. He never saw what he as doing as an infidelity, I did. He kept doing it, I kept catching him.

I don't want to tell you to leave your husband if you've been otherwise happy - that decision is yours to make. But please make sure that you're both at a point where you've reached a true agreement about the situation as opposed to him just humouring you so he can go back to life as normal. It hurts more when it just keeps happening & there's no reason for you to be in that position.

I hope you're as okay as you can be right now.

Oh Pfft. I have nothing to add really but I can tell you I'm sorry.

I'm not one of the 'leave him' brigade because I think that each situation is so very different as to be incomparable. But he needs to admit he's done wrong whatever happens. He doesn't think he's done nothing wrong. He wants that to be true and hopes it will help him but he must know that it's a betrayal. Otherwise, why hide it?

Good advice WWIFN.

It is cheating in my book.

Fwiw I wouldn't stay with a cheater just because we had kids together.

I would also be checking out whether he has been viewing porn on his own. I'd be pretty astonsihed if he hadn't, especially as porn has been acceptable in your relationship. If so, what type of porn?

I wonder too what links there are to your recent efforts to "spice things up" and who drove that, in your relationship?

Sorry to be the harbinger of doom, but I don't think this behaviour was shaped 6 days ago. I suspect to get to this point, there have been several boundaries crossed on the run-up to this; e.g. the type of porn viewed, watching and masturbating alone, flirty chats with online people etc.

Pfft - I am so sorry this has happened and I totally admire how strong you have been and haven't fallen for the lies.

I agree with you this is cheating as I have been through similar stuff but I was the one having an EA. We didn't get as physical as your H seems to have though we did see each other on the webcam. Seems less bad that it was an ex but really it isn't.

I was lucky, my husband has forgiven me.

You must do what you feel is best for you. If you can't live with him having done this then you do not have to justify yourself to anyone.

Ask him to go for a few days so you have time to think about this without him around and make sure he knows any consequences of him doing anything else.

Stay strong.

I just wanted to offer more support.

similar thing happened to me - although his fantasies transended into RL

He also tried the old 'we haven't been having sex' - which just twists the knife that he has been paying attention to another woman and not to me.

It is truely shit, and the stupid, stupid men can't see how hurtful and damaging all this is.

i agree,it probably does go deeper. a bit more investigating perhaps?

but really,how does this bode for the future. stay together and would you ever trust him again? each text he gets,each time he's on the computer......if you're anything like me then it will be impossible. sometimes no amount of counselling can help

if you split....well,what would happen then?

Thank you all for your words, and WWIFN for your advice. I was just thinking the same thing. That I need information.

When I got home this morning (went out with DS) I looked at his laptop and the history. I saw that he had sent an e-mail entitled "shit" and I asked him to see this email. He had deleted it. This tells me quite a lot, as he had not deleted any of the previous stuff (he says this is because he was not doing anything wrong, I say it's because he is stupid). He has not given me access to his work e-mail, I shall ask for it when he gets home. I have his personal email here and his "secret" e-mail address that he only used to talk to her. I have his laptop. He recently got a new phone - I have been through the old one, there is nothing on there.
I am currently going through the internet history.

WWIFN - the sex stuff.
We has a sporadic sex life, we weren't communicating very well and decided to remedy this. We started talking more. He has always looked at porn. I don't care. I look at some stuff. I read erotica. But I think you are right. looking at the history, there is stuff about swingers clubs there. Maybe there is more to this.

Can you tell me HOW I find out if he wanted ot meet her?

I agree with you, when you say that EA's are a lead up to the real thing. I asked him where she lived and he said "I don't know" and I asked again and got "up north somewhere" I do not believe that he doesn't know.

He has bought a couple of things online so I will wait to see if they show up or if he has sent them to her.

I may have fallen for the lies if I did not have MN. THread after thread of these men has taught me to not believe the lies. I think that there is more to find out.

I was tempted to make rash decisions. I need to find out more information.

I gave DH 3 chances - he blew each of them more spectacularly every time. Hurt and pain isn't a deterrent

Don't make any big decisions now. Give yourself some time, find out what you need to do to give yourself options (solicitor, CAB etc). Decide what YOU want to do.

I'd do anything for my family, anything. But not at any cost. I don't fear being alone, I fear living my days as half the person I'm meant to be. Someone who turns a blind eye and is made to feel worthless because of it.

Often men think if they didn't actually put their penis into a womans vagina it doesn't count as infidelity. So blow jobs, virtual shagging, text sex, to them is acceptable in their fucked up heads.

Stay strong. You are not alone.

An extract from an e-mail between them - sent from him:

You've never been a nameless person to me. I think some of the things I've said may have one across like I might think that but it's never been true, I swear. You're not just some random woman, that's why I like you.

So much for the "she was faceless" claim.

I might cut his dick off.

Pfft.

There is no doubt in my mind that he wanted to meet her.

It starts with a message on a forum that he 'got away with' so he steps it up a notch. A text, email or MSN message that he 'got away with' again.

Whether he asked for the picture of her or she sent it to him, 'he got away with it' in his head. All of the things he said and did with her, he has 'got away with' so far.

You can see where I'm going with this. If he thought he could get away with it, I believe that he would meet her, yes.

Whether he had arranged to already? You will have to ask him. Or her.

He will drip feed you information over the next few weeks. He is in 'self preservation' mode and is trying to limit the damage, whilst keeping his options open.

I also have no doubt that this other woman is now fully aware of the fact that you 'know' about the two of them.

I agree whole heartedly with WWIFN.

You need to know everything. Every last detail before you can even consider moving forward with this.

Stay strong. xx

at cut his dick off. That's my girl!!!

Check the cookies in internet options to see what stuff has been viewed. If you know he looks at porn on his own, find out what type. I often think if women really knew what porn was accessed and enjoyed, they'd be a lot less "right on" about porn.

Check all your folders - and I mean every one. Check your temp files too.

Check phone bills, going back as far as you can. Most online bills can be viewed for a whole 2 years. You have her number, presumably. but look for other ones too, because there might be someone different or she may have changed her number in recent times.

Consider contacting her for her version of events, as long as you can be reasonably certain he hasn't got to her first and they've agreed stories.

If you are met with a denial about either a)meeting up or b) his ability to follow through if a meeting was planned, tell him that you will assume he would have had sex with her unless he can disprove it. That puts the onus on to him to prove innocence and not on you, to prove guilt.

What often happens in these situations is that you will get an admission to only what can be proved.

Please whatever you do, don't buy any excuses or projections of blame. If your sex life has been patchy and you were both making efforts to remedy matters, on whose planet would you have to be on, to think that going outside the marriage was going to help?

Info, info, info is needed at these times, from as many sources as possible. Indisputable hard evidence like phone bills, text messages, E mails etc. are the best truth indicators.

any clues from the forum you're all on....a profile or something for her? might say where she's from,if she is married etc

i think the work email account will be very telling

I'm very sorry to hear what you're going through, Pfft.

Definitely think you need more information that you have and the next few weeks may bring that, plus the more you talk (obviously make him sweat) the more I hope you can find some answers.

The extract of the email you posted makes me feel very . Whilst I know there is a degree of anonymity surrounding the internet, it sounds to me as if it would have progressed into meeting. Perhaps not anything beyond that, but meeting at least.

The bottom line is that he knew you would be hurt by this and only you know if he can ever be the same person to you again.

Mouseface - Yes. I think he was getting away with it. I did say to him "I am asking your for the truth. Not this drip feed of information that you think you can get away with to keep me happy. If I find out that you have withheld something else about here there will be so much trouble you would not believe." He told me that he googled her and found out where she works. I asked him if he had met her, talked to her on the phone or arranged to meet and he said no. I am not sure that I believe him.

WWIFN - just about to read your post.

Thank you all so much, it is so good to have people to talk about.

The email deleted entitled "shit" was to her re you finding out do you think?

Not worded well, ykwim

SHe is married and apparently her husband found otu about their thing a few days ago.

I have the emails they exchanged, I forwarded them all to my e-mail. I am looking through internet istory and will start on folders next.

He says that they had a discussion about what they would not do before it all started - no calling on the phone, no meeting up, it would not go any further. This just sounds so calculated and I don't fucking believe it.

I have set his e-mail to forward to me and made him write an e-mail to her to say that they won't be speaking again. I am making him change his passwords for msn and facebook and I will oput new ones in. This will help me gather information while I make a decision.

Wow, Pfft, you rock! Massive sympathy for your horrible discovery - and massive props for knowing exactly how you feel about it and where your boundaries are.

Sincerely wishing you all the best, as you work out how to go forward from here. You must be feeling like you can't trust the ground under your feet just now. Congrats on still being able to find your sense of humour. Good luck. x

check recycling bin!!

just in case anything is still there...