H using self help book in row

[onelastchance]

As some of you know from other posts, dh and i have been having a vry tough time.

I bought a couple of books, oe about anger management and one about emotional abuse. We have a weekly chat to discuss what we've agreed to read the previous week.

had a row (ironically about him not doing excercised in the book). It escalated s i was too upset to make u with him despite him making a few attempts. he then started ranting about it beig me who was abusing him and shouting really loudly all in front of ds (4). He stomed out of house and i could't help crying which then made poor ds cry too :(

H bought presents for me and ds in the evening to say sorry and if the shouting/ranting had ben a one off, i'd be ok now. trouble is, i'm pretty sure it'll happen again.

Am i being ureasonable for being upset about him not putting more effort into the reading and then refusing to make up with him?

Yes, he drove us to my sisters and stayed there with us. It was ok but felt a bit awkward to times as we were only speaking whn necessary.

I guess it;s partly my fault then if i'm abusing him too :( Maybe i i behaved differently everythign would be ok

I dont think your abusive to him OneLast , but i do think your very angry and resentful towards him , and im not surprised. You will probably get angrier and angrier and more and more resentfull . Have you thought about ordering some of those books that people recomeded earlier in the thread ?

No.

That's what bullies say, isn't it? It's the way the whole thing works. They say they wouldn't "have to" be nasty to you, if you did what they want.

The point is, they don't have to be nasty to you anyway. Somebody who loves you CARES about your feelings. It's simple enough really.

Thanks grace and dignified :)

I suppos i was just as bad by calling him a freak - i didn't have to say it :(

I did it on fri night and sat night. i apologised on sat morning and he said it was ok as i had lot on my mind and he hoped we'd have a nic day. however in the end we didn't have a nice day because of the taxi/going out disaster :(

I didn't apologise this morning :(. So guess i'm just as bad as him

You're not as bad as him, if you live abuse 24/7 it's hardly a surprise that you snap occasionally and retaliate in kind. It is certainly a hallmark of abusers that they throw back the abusive label on their victims to suit their manipulative needs. Particularly if you're trying to change the abusive behaviour by getting him to read books about abuse, it's like handing him a textbook on how to manipulate you. That's why counselling is not appropriate for abusers, studies have shown it just makes them more effective at abusing.

I remember my stepfather accusing my mother of abuse when she would defend herself from his abuse. In his warped world view she ought to have just placidly let him attack her physically and verbally.

It's another sign that the relationship needs to end though, isn't it? If you feel like you are abusing him, and he's abusing you, what's left to save?

How gracious of him , he winds you up by refusing to hear you and when you snap hes loveley about it. See , its all your fault Onelast , look how reasonable he is. Another point to him and something else to throw back in your face.

He loves these little tricks and games doesnt he. Rather than focus on what youve said , it might be worth looking at why youve said it . How were you feeling on friday / saturday night ? And why ?
As much as you are trying to ignore this and stuff your feelings down , they will come out .

I know your upset about him not arranging the taxi , and him making it clear he didnt want to go out , despite the fact you did . He even claimed to know how you felt didnt he , stating it was obvious you didnt want to go. I dont think it was about the taxi or anything like that , its about him constantly ignoring your wants and needs and you being expected to put up with it.

A bit of washing up , flowers or asking how your day was really doesnt make up for this constant horrible treatment.

OLC everyone deserves some positivity from their partner and i just get negatives going on here.Towards the end of my marriage i was a screaming banshee tbh.All of his detatchment,alcoholism,drug addiction and lack of compassion to me and his children had turned me into this ball of negative energy.But when he left ,it pretty much went with him and when he ever came back to my home [doesnt happen now we have neutral drop off points]i could feel the waves of negativity around him and they would bring me crashing down in the early days.I was once told by a lady at ALANON "Expectations bring resentment"You cannot control his behaviour ,only your own .Only you can decide if this is the life you want but you can get off the merry-go-round anytime you like ,sending you peace x

Onelast, I didn't mean that you are in any way to blame. What I meant was that you relationship has got to the point where you are behaving in a way that is wrong for you. Does that make sense? And all ds will see is two angry people hurting each other which is why I mentioned it.

Onelast, it all just sounds so unhealthy to me. Th epicking apart of who di dwhat when, the passing of notes and text messages, it's all just a smokescreen from the fact that you are in a very nasty situation.

To repeat: your behaviour does not make you to blame.

But yes, you can change things by doing something differently. You can leave, and get your life and your health back and build a future from you rds where he will see a happy mum instead of a sad, angry, bewildered one.

Totally agree with Dignified, too. The why is really important here.

Patience, I adored the way you said "when he left, it pretty much went with him". Yes, yes a thousand times! I know I can be a screeching, hysterical, sobbing, yelling, foot-stamping nightmare. I have been that person - for several years in a run - three times in my life: when I was being abused by my dad, by X#1 then by X#2. You know, I'm glad I can be that screaming fishwife! It means that, even when I didn't know any better, part of me felt the injustice and railed against it. (Also, I've used my inner fishwife to scare off a bunch of attackers, so she's well worth keeping on!!)

OLC, we all really want you to come to the end of this self-doubt and agonised nitpicking. Most of us didn't have the benefit of MN when we went through this. I'm hoping your thread will help you move on through, and out the other side, faster than we did. However long it takes - I'm with you, and I'm sure the others are too.

You're worth it, you know.

So many wise women on this thread, Onelast.
(and I do not count myself among them.) You are so, so lucky to have these amazing people to guide you.

I know I can be a screeching, hysterical, sobbing, yelling, foot-stamping nightmare. I have been that person - Me too Grace and i have always had this whether its my thoughts of injustice in a political sense or in my personal life. I see the "rage of injustice"in my 4yo dd and i hope she learns to control her emotions enough to be able to articulate her POV,but never loses the fire in her belly and i will always positively encourage passionate expression.Myself i hope i will continue to mature emotionally as i have done this year.We are all imprinted by patterns around us OLC ,parents aquaintances,lovers ,nowadays i can take what i have learnt from this and move forwards ,not blame or resent them ,but at the same time i have learned to jump out of a negative situation and surround myself with positivity and love .I choose now who i spend my time with ,I suit myself .BTW my X left me OLC but as soon as he did my awareness of the situation was crystal clear.All i mean is if he hadnt left i probably would be still in the dysfunction.He made attempts to come back ,but right away he saw i had changed and become the woman i was destined to be ,zero tolerance to misogynistic entitlement.He has become someone i hardly recognise,gone is my spiritual best friend ,instead he is a self centred single bloke,in the pub with his mates and spares 3hrs for his kids a week if he can manage it[he didnt today]So i know i made the right choice ,would never have believed it OLC I was with him 16yrs as i said in another thread amongst other excuses i made for him[dysfunctional childhood]a lot of the time i put it down to him being a Scorpio.

Thanks so much for all your responses.

I felt guilty for calling him a freak, so sent him a text (didn't want to speak in case i ended up saying more and it escalaed - need a proper sleep tonight!) to say i was sorry for calling him horribe names. I knew it was very bad and shouldn't have done it. He came downstairs to thank me for my apology, calmly. I said i knew it was a bad thing to say but still thought his behaviour had been awful too. He didn't respond.

Whilst i know alot of his behaviour is bad, he's not as bad as some. Not into drugs, no longer violent, work hard at a very senior job, not controlling with money, spends alot of time with ds, gets up with him most mornings while i'm still in bed..maybe i just want too much?

lol @ scorpio, Patience, that sign seems to take the blame for a lot of inexcusable behaviour!

Onelast, see where Patience said her X showed his real (wanky) self as soon as she became her real (better) self? The exact same thing happened with X#2. If my friend hadn't been with me at the time, I may not have believed it! But I had a witness, so it was real for sure. My STBX, who I still thought of as close - someone with whom I had a special understanding, although a broken marriage - sat there with the 2 of us, ranting on about fuzzywuzzies, nignogs, black bastards, bitches, cunts and tarts. He'd ripped the venue off (again) for that night's bill. Oh, and he was spitting while he talked. After he left the room, my friend and I looked at each other. I said "I can't believe I had sex with that, never mind married it."

Onelast, I hope that your apology has made you feel better. The thing is, when he's been foul to you doesn't he say, but somehow it was your fault? I wonder if justifying yourself to him is a good idea. You don't need to, you know. Anyone if pushed as you are will do exactly what you did.

It makes no difference if his behaviour isn't as 'bad' as some others. He's hurt you. And he continues to behave in ways that make you suffer.

And, the bottom line is, living with him makes you unhappy.

So, you could say that maybe your life isn't as bad as some people's. But do you think it is as good as most either? No. You can create for yourself that amazingly beautiful life, just as Patience has and Grace is doing and all these amazing people. It's not about what you want, it's about what you deserve, and you deserve better.

I'm sorry if I sound blunt sometimes. I came to my new life through life coaching, and my coach didn't pussyfoot around. But then I'd reached the stage where I was ready for change so maybe she could be. And you will soon, sweetheart. You are amazing and you are taking those steps.

I don't know if anyone might find this helpful but I have a guided visualisation that I've written for loving yourself as a child, I'm happy to c&p it if anyone would like.

Look, Onelast, it wouldn't matter if he was the saintliest, horniest, richest, most educated, most artistic, sensitive & assertive man in the history of the world! In a relationship with this person you don't feel wanted, loved for yourself, admired and respected do you? That's all that counts.

Is there a part of you that thinks you should be grateful for what you can get?

Grace, i think that is how i feel - gratful for what i have. i love having a nice house, no money worries, etc - if i leave i won't have that

Sounds awful doesn't it

We all felt that fear OLC ,we knew the path we were on wasnt the right one ,but we all feared to make that leap.Remember the security you feel now is also habit but you can break a habit if you choose to do so.

Whilst i know alot of his behaviour is bad, he's not as bad as some.

Stop it ! So what if he doesnt do drugs or if he works hard. Hes still mean and your not happy with him . And look at this, you apologise for your behaviour , he calmly thanks you , but doesnt apologise for his, nor respond . Know what ? I wouldnt bother apologising again.

And i know what your doing too , behaving badly - then openly admitting to your mistakes , in the hope that he will do the same. Well hes not going to , he,ll just beat you over the head with your own apology , your not even worth responding to as far as he is concerned. Read that again.

And as for his good points , him not being controlling with money and getting up with ds , is that it ?

I would love that Spiritmum if you get the chance x
OLC i also believe when you give out negativity it just comes straight back onto urself and if you give out positivity it also reflects back on you,you also attract the energies you project. When you go over bad things in the past you re energise these negative situations and fill yourself with bad feelings again.I understand through counselling there is a need to work thru things ,but in everyday life when i used to think why did someone do that to me or why didnt my X step up to the plate again and again ,all i was doing was filling myself up with the negativity again and again.Now that i have let these things go i have released myself from this destructive pattern .Shit happens i move on and the more i have this no rear view mirrors attitude it is surprising that i dont analyse the nitty gritty anymore.I deal with a situation and move on.My self doubt is much less and I trust my decision making skills much more.I used to run things by my X all the time,so much so that i questioned my instinct.To be able to stand alone now is my destiny i feel and if i meet a new partner it will be when i am full of self love and firing on all cylinders.My biggest achievement of 2010 is truely knowing i dont need a man to validate my existance.I know now my happiness depends on me staying true to myself and not contorting my inner self to meet the needs of some bloke.Sometimes i do long for the man i thought i had married but at the end of the day he didnt want to be with me and dcs so i have to cut the cord and let him go.Every week there seems to be an instance that he shows his true colours.He doesnt respect.love or cherish me ,so he no longer has a place in my life,only as the father of my dcs and i work hard everyday to heal myself and keep this dignified for my kids .

"Sometimes i do long for the man i thought i had married "

LMAO at myself ladies when i read that bit OLC ,that is the romantic part of my mind playing tricks on me .THats 16yrs worth of habit and wanting to see the good in an abusive bloke.

To be really blunt the day that my X left i prayed that i had escaped and to have the strength to break free of the life i had ,and that is the real truth.

Of course financial things are important , you have to be practical , no one wants to be poor.

Its highly likeley that with tax credits and maintenance you would be able to stay in your house , how about looking into that side of things ? If you find out that you will manage , it will remove that fear , and that then becomes one less reason to stay. A nose around on the net will give you an idea of what youd be entitled to.

I have a loveley home , (im still in it ) , my husband earned well and we were very comfortable . Im now a student , and i can honestly say that although i occasionally worry , we havent gone without , i can afford to run a car and we do NOT live hand to mouth. That too, was a reason i stayed ,along with all the usual " the kids adore him and hes a great dad ". They dont and he wasnt.

Do you feel that you havent got enough justification to call it quits ? I used to wish that mine would have an affair so i would be justified in kicking him out. Funny thing is , he was , i just didnt know about it !

I feel the therapist who will be best for you now, Onelast, is one who helps you appreciate your own value. Doesn't matter if a crabby old witch like me would find it inadequate or whatever ... everybody learns stuff in stages throughout life, but the basic lesson is one of self-worth. The others all rest on that, just as you can't learn anything in school before you've mastered the language.

Love yourself.

Spiritmum, id love to read that if you wouldnt mind posting it.

I used to wish that mine would have an affair so i would be justified in kicking him out. Funny thing is , he was , i just didnt know about it ! Gales of gallows laughter, Dig! Me too