Help me have a good relationship with my MIL or DH and I will split

[TheLastOfTheNappies]

I have posted before last year for the back story see first post here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/828190-Another-MIL-story

Basically an awful relationship with MIL - she caused such a horrible time after teh birth of my daughter and made everything about her. DH hasn't made things much better by discussing me/undermining me with his Mother just to avoid a confrontation with her.

The trouble is, I think it's effecting my mental health now. It's certainly effecting our relationship. There have been incidents since that first post that always take us back to where we were last september.

I am always expected to forgive and forget, to move on. But I can't do that anymore. I actually feel physically sick that my MIL is touching her, I want to limit as much contact with her as possible as I feel so wound up/tense/hysterical when she's with her. I didn't start off like this! Im not an overly over-protective mother. I don't go over and see them anymore, DH takes DD to them, but he complains that it's never long enough, not enough time, that she's cried (that's because she's anxious and mummy isn't there I expect, it's sensory overkill when she does visit)

It was her first birthday yesterday, today DH and his parents and other relatives/neighbours are having a little tea party for her. I'm not invited, it hasn't been mentioned. I know I don't see them at the moment, but I do feel odd that my child's having a party that I'm not part of. It's like they have always wanted me not to be there.

I'm sorry for this rambling post. I just think that DH and I are so close to splitting over this. He doesn't see anything that I cite as unreasonable, and not I know that I'm being unreasonable too. I just can't stop these feelings. I don't see how I can play happy families with this woman (which is what DH wants). He expects me to paint over everything. I suspect the whole situation has been made worse because he also believes his mother over me when she is outright lying.

How do I move on from this? How can I accept that she is my daughter's Grandmother? How do I make these relationships work?

TIA

Just to add that the latest incident that has caused these bad feelings was a change of name - we decided against the name we had chosen for DD and about 5 months ago decided to change it.

PIL were totally unsupportive and actually refused to call her by her new given name. Will now only call her petnames instead (I'm not picking holes, as they never called here these before, they now avoid saying/writing her name at all)

This led to DH siding with them (after we'd made the decision joinly re the name!) and undermining our choice (it may have been initiated by me, but he agreed and agreed on the name)leading his parents to believe he'd been co-erced into it, just to he didn't have to listen to his Mum tell him why she liked the old name better.

I think you and your DH urgently need counselling. He needs to decide where his loyalties lie, and if they're not with you, realistically it sounds like he might need to move out.

I remember the original thread. You can't battle that sort of assault by yourself.

I have a good friend whose life is being ruined by her beast of a MIL. She can't get away (traditional family, arranged marriage). If you can, I would actually advise you to start thinking about it. Can you really live for the next 30 years with your husband and his mother ganging up on you?

No I can't! The thing is, he/they make me feel like I'm going mad! That theirs is reasonable behaviour and I'm totally over-reacting.

Maybe I do over react about the smaller things now. I don't know anymore.I just know that I can't find a way forward - I can't find peace with his Mother. I'm so tense when my DD is being taken off to see her, I don't like leaving DD alone with DH (totally wrong of me) because I know MIL will be straight over dripping poison in his ear, and when DD's old enough to listen, hers as well. I'm happiest (and so are DH and I) when she's not here/a visit isn't imminent and she isn't mentioned.

What's worse is that he dislikes my mother, almost for the sake of it. i.e if you don't like my mother I'm not going to get on with yours. Because he doesn't want my Mum to babysit (presumably because his mother hasn't yet, I feel so uncomfortable with her having DD alone) we end up going out nowhere together.

I don't want to feel like this anymore. I don't recognise myself. I will look into counselling. Thank you.

Yes, you (on your own) need to talk to a counsellor.

The fact your DH is gannging up against you with his mum suggests he is a mummy's boy and totally under her thumb.

She is using her power over him to push you away. She probably does not want her son married at all and thinks of your daughter as hers by right.

My granny was very controlling and made my mum's life hell. Everyone else placated the old witch and never stood up to her when really she needed a damn good slapping.

If this is affecting your mental health, look after yourself first.

Your MIL and DH having a birthday party to which you, the child's mum are not invited is bullying and disgraceful and grounds for divorce I'd say.

And if your MIL is like my granny, yes, she will tell your child that you are crap, my gran continually told me my mum was rubbish. It was horrible.

Sorry this sounds so negative, but this situation is intolerable and very nasty and for your own health and well being of your child you need to get out.

The other option is cut contact with MIL but it sounds like your husband wouldn't stick that. He has been controlled and conditioned by his mum for years.

What a dreadful situation for you.

Please remember you are the one who is being picked on and this is not your fault.

Miggsie - thank you for your post. Even seeing it in black and white a question whether it's my fault though. I wonder whether I've painted things in a light that would make people believe that because I'm subjective.

I try and remind myself that they love DD, but all I see is a woman trying to show off a trophy GD. From the moment I was pregnant it was all about her, and I can't see that her love is genuine. ( I know it prob is, this is just how I feel about her)

I'm going on now, I know, I just think I need to sort my head out. I don't know even how to begin that. DH will agree with me for a while about the situation until it all comes to a head and his true feelings come out.

I don't know who's in the right anymore. I can understand how I'd feel if my family weren't overly involved in my DD's life, but I'd like to think I wouldn't let it get to the point where I let my Mum treat DH like that to get in that situation.

I suppose I can't separate her treatment of me with her relationship with her GD. Should I be able to? It feels like to get to that place would take a superhuman effort on my part.

I agree your husband is the one in the wrong here and needs to be loyal to you. Have you told him you feel excluded about the first birthday party?
Have you told him you'd like him to back you up and maybe see less of his mum for a while to build up your small family unit?
Have you told him if the marriage is to survive you may need to move away from his parents if he can't support you, otherwise the relationship will end?
How much time do grandparents need with a tiny baby? You can't do much with them. When mine were little I was breastfeeding so they didn't go anywhere without me anyway. Both sets og grandparents lived away so didn't interfere.
You do seem to be OTT in some reactions like getting in a tizz at the thought of your MIL holding her. That is a huge over reaction.
Could you suggest to your husband that you have 2-3 weeks of just the 3 of you and no grandparents involved (you can't let your mum see the baby if his mum can't) and then insist that if visiting his parents you go as a family unit, but sort out how often you want to relly visit.
At the moment you are behaving like a divorced couple, having seperate birthday parties etc.
Your husband has got to choose you over his mum. I'd hope given some time away from her you'd calm down a bit re her not touching your baby.

Do you live near your MIL? Could you perhaps move a bit further away/nearer your parents? IS this something DP would consider if he thought the alternative was divorce? What a horrible situation for you. Do you work? Could you maybe get away for a couple of weeks with your dd staying with your mum to clear your head a bit?

Surely you are going to the party? Why do you need an invite? You're her mother! Dh needs a kick up the arse. He's allowing his family to plan a first party for your child and try to exclude you? How old is he, 12? You should come first, not his mother. I think the problem lies with your dh and how he deals with her, not your mil.

There is no way my child would have a first birthday party without me there. So, I'd be there or my child wouldn't be and I'd tell them to have fun on their own!

2rebecca - I have tried to tell him those things, yes - he told me I was being stupid about the birthday party, that I was over-reacting. Also that it was OK for him to do something alone with his parents as I had done a tea party alone with my Mum, sis and nephews.However, we only did a lunch thing yesterday because he was at work! We knew he wouldn't be getting back until gone 7pm, and waiting to do something would be pointless. I didn't exclude him, he wasn't sat somewhere else while we had a bit of cake, as I will be tonight!
I think he feels as much at the end of his tether. Getting on with his Mum (or not) is a deal breaker for him. He can see a few things she's done wrong, but expects me to accept her behaviour as everyone else does (his words).
I know that I'm OTT - that's why I think I need out. I have had some time away from her, but I still hate her with my DD. I don't feel like being away from them when DH takes DD makes it better, it makes it worse! I think because from almost day 1 they wanted DD on their own, I feel that they have got their own way. It's more the way that she acts like DD is her own I think that I can't stomach. If DD doesn't immediately smile or want to be held MIL gets huffy and tuts or cries and walks out of the room because I'm not letting them form enough of a bond?!
I never envisaged feeling this way about my MIL. I never wanted this relationship for any of us.

I agree that we are behaving like a divorced couple.

Piggymad - DH would move away - I don't want to move away from my parents really though. All of my family are here. I do think that DH and I have spent a lot of time apart lately (forced because of his work) and I have spent time away from MIL but it's always below the sufrace waiting to erupt again.

Maybe counselling would make me see sense and be able to separate my relationship with MIL with my DDs. At the moment I can't.

Cheeseandgherkins - I broached this subject last night and got the reply as in my post above - I'd done something on my own so he could??!! Also, I offered perhaps as a peace offering they would like to come here but that was rebuffed too. She's his daughter too as he tells me, how can I stop him taking her?!

I think having a tea party for your daughter with your extended family but without your husband was bizarre.
I would never have done that and think in that case he is just behaving tit for tat.
At 1 the child won't really get the meaning of a birthday anyway. Surely you and your husband are the ones who should be celebrating together, not all the extended clan and 1 parent.
Does your 1 year old go to sleep before 7 and not wake up again until morning? I would have thought you could have found some time during the evening to celebrate with your husband and baby, or delay the party until you are both there as the actual date won't mean anything to a baby.
It sounds as though you both spend too much time with extended family and not enough time working on your relationship.
You need to push all the rellies away for a bit and concentrate on your relationship, maybe seeing friends for support rather than you both being mothered all the time..

I rather think the reason you tense up whenever your MIL holds (or looks like she's going to hold) your DD is because of that incident last year where she pretty much ran away with her when you said she couldn't take her round the village. She didn't do anything awful and your DD was quite unharmed, but you were newly postnatal and it's completely natural that your instincts screamed "SOMEONE'S TAKING MY BABY!" rather than you thinking "Oh that MIL, what a pain" as you might have done a few months later. DH, watching this, wouldn't see anything except his own mother, who he loves and trusts, carrying his baby, her grandchild, and would think it was kind of sweet or perhaps a wee bit naughty, no more than that; he just wouldn't get why it was so upsetting. To you, your maternal feelings were outraged at their most sensitive time, and it still reverberates every time she picks her up.

Could be barkin' there but I think it's logical. Like being frightened by a spider when you were little and ever after getting a jolt when you see one, despite knowing perfectly well it isn't poisonous. (Not sure that's a good analogy as your MIL does sound a tad poisonous tbh.)

Hi Lastofthenappies,

I know where you're coming from - my MIL tries to dominate the whole of DH's extended familiy and I've been through a similar birthday party scenario with my DC!!

She tried to dominate my wedding and my DC's birth, she belittles the spouses of her children and her husband.

Now her other grandchildren (many of their birthday parties were hosted by her too) are grown up they keep her at arm's length, as she's upset their mother so much.

I find it very difficult, and its affected my mental health too. For the first few years I put up with it, then I broke down and told my mum all about it - it turns out her MIL was just like that, and it nearly broke my parent's marriage - they moved abroad for a while to get away.

Thats an extreme move - I try keeping her at arm's length.

I am interested to see the solutions that mumsnetters propose.

only read the OP of this thread and your old thread, but jeeeeez you poor thing putting up with that.

IMVHO, your DH needs to grow a pair and stand up for YOU.

FGS. he needs to get his priorities right.

2rebecca - I can understand how you think that and don't really want to make it about yesterday's lunch. However DH and I discussed it prior. She does sleep through from 7pm, and we did all get up early adn had a birthday breakfast with pictures presents etc - so our nuclear family did celebrate together prior to anything else. TBH I'd have found it odd to have sat indoors all day doing nothing else to mark the day. Maybe I made it sound more like a party, but it was my sister, nephews and my mum popping round to see her on her birthday with some cupcakes! But that's just me - I honestly couldn't see anything wrong with that situation if it was me who went to work and DH who had stayed at home.

Atilla - I think that's what it is, I was so anxious at the time, and they've never done anything to allay that fear I suppose because there was never any acknowledgement from either of them that there was anything wrong with her behaviour.

horsefly - I hope you manage to find a solution too , thanks for your post.

The problem is, if you get divorced his mother will still be there doing the same things and you will be even more excluded - but legitimately so - in fact she will probably see even more of your DD as she will be on the scene when DD is with your DH.

You have to find a way to take back some control of the situation.

Here's what I would do:

Go to the party. Get dressed up to the nines, face of slap, red lipstick whatever, swan into the party and sit like the queen bee basking in the reflected glory of your lovely DD that YOU produced. Smile until your face aches. Be extra nice to everyone there.

If DH refuses to back you in this:

tell him calmly that you can no longer tolerate the situation, that he needs to decide where his loyalties lie, that you will not tolerate the worst of your MiL's behaviour because everyone else does. Tell him that this is non-negotiable and if he decides to fail in his duty to you, you will divorce him and move with your daughter to the other side of the country for the sake of your mental health.

Tell him that you will be able to cite as an example of his unreasonable behaviour the fact that you weren't invited to your own DD's birthday party.

However, unless you actually do want to end your marriage I would not let this woman drive you out of your own life. The most important thing is to reconnect with your husband and get him on your side - you are more likely to achieve this with carrots than sticks. The way his M operates is that she gets what she wants/gets away with things because people know that it is not worth the effort of crossing her. You have to make it so that your DH realises that his life is so much better when you are kept happy. Ask him straight up whether he actually wants a happy marriage with you, or a miserable one spoiled by his mum or a divorce. Does he love his child enough to be a man and form a united front with her mother to keep her from growing up in a broken home or is he going to let someone come between you and split up her family?

Them's the choices. Box clever.

I have to add the caveat that without more information it is hard to judge whether fault may lie on both sides. The thing about changing your daughter's name after 5 months makes you sound a little odd to be honest (unless you were co-erced into the original name or something), and makes me wonder whether you might not be hard work yourself. I can see to a certain extent why it annoyed the PiLs and why they refused to co-operate.

I think you may need to take a good long hard look at yourself and whether your reactions to her might not be mired rather in your early post natal hormonal, possibly slightly irrational feelings towards her and therefore fuelling a vicious circle of bad feeling.

MMM - thanks - his priority is his relationship with his Mother and his Mother's with his daughter. He puts that above ours. My priority is my relationship with him, and our daughter and it always has been.

what does he say when you ask him why he puts her first? how can he not be ashamed of himself?!

Aside from MIL, do you love your husband? If so, then you need to work this out.
I don't know the history I am afraid, but what is the worst that can happen? In actual fact, if you build bridges and can be there while your daughter is then you can monitor what happens and what you MIL does. If you separate and allow this to break you up, then you will have no say in what your husband does with your child on 'his time'. Could you bear to have 50/50 custody just for the sake of your MIL? Then she will have won.
Try some counselling, on your own and then maybe bringing your husband in as well.

Don't let your MIL win, and please don't fall apart, just get help.

msboogie - thanks for your post. The name change was a joint choice - neither of us liked the name - we grew to actively dislike it. It was a fairly unusual name and wejust felt we'd made a bad choice. The new name was more my choice than DH, in that I suggested it. All other family were supportive as were all friends as they saw that it was our choice.

The rest of your post has some really helpful suggestions. I do think there is a vicious circle - as Atilla said probably because of the original situation which I was told to suck up because she was my DDs Grandmother, seperate the relationship adn put up with her. No apology, nothing. I think it was a case of a stitch in time really. Had that happened then, this probably wouldn't be as bad as it is now.

MMM - he tells me I'm imagining it! However if he's been away for ten days or so, the first thing he wants to do when he gets back is take DD to MIL, as MILs 'missed her and is afraid she won't know who she is'.

I don't think I do love my DH anymore, no. That would be my gut reaction. A man who believes his wife is moving 700 miles away and taking our DD because his mother says so, really doesn't earn my respect any more.

The custody thing does worry me....but maybe it would be better for my head and my health. I won't feel like I'm competing anymore.

I think msboogie talks a lot of sense.

Apart from the mil issue how is your relationship with your DH?

She probably enjoys knowing she annoys you and would probably back off if you don't react in anyway and just act as though you think she's wonderful.

I was just recounting the bare bones of this thread to DS3, who's 21 and obviously neither a mother nor ever likely to be one, and he gasped with horror at the MIL whizzing off with the baby. He got it in one.

He counts the days since DD has seen MIL - he doesn't count the times we've spent any time alone since she's been born. Once, in a year!

Annie - your DS sounds much more mature than my DH!

Oh and to msboogie asking if perhaps I'm hard work, I probably am now. Hence the reason for my post. I know we're going nowhere. However I didn't start off like this, I was more than forgiving, tried to accept his Mum when I'd have happily have never seen her again for the things she'd said even prior to being pregnant. DH was so scared of her reaction when telling her I was pregnant, that's not right.

The stock response to anything I say is: She's always wanted to be a Grandmother, but this isn't how she wanted it to be. Does he think this is the way I wanted being a mother and a family to start out? I see her doing nothing to rectify the situaiton when I arranged to meet over 3 times in the last year to try and sort things out with her. I think I've just given up now.

I have tried to take myself out of the situation and not show her I'm wound up by not being there when DH takes her over.

I may also add reading the comment that you are "over reacting" to being excluded from your child's party rings HUGE bells for me.
Your reaction is normal, I'd be pissed off/appalled at not being asked to my own child's party!

The phrase "over reacting" to a normal emotional response means somewhere in this scenario there is a big selfish emotional abuser/narcissist personality who defines "over reacting" as "refuses to see things my way."

The relationship DH has with his mother isn't normal, the relationship you have with your MIL is not normal. The common denominator is the MIL.

I seriously believe you need to get the book "toxic parents" and "toxic parents in law" as this appears to be the family dynamic from DH's side.

Does everyone in DH's family defer to MIL? Is her word law? Does she always get her own way? Does she never apologise? Is everything run for her benefit. Is everyone expected to wait on her and obey her wishes? Does no one else EVER talk back to her or disagree with her?
If the answers to all these questions is "yes" then you have a narcissist on your hands and a normal relationship isn't possible.

I can understand your anxiety about your MIL holding your baby, it sounds something close to a panic attack and is a direct response to the time she ran off with your baby, you knowing she doesn't give a stuff about your wishes and your recognition of her controlling nature.

Unfortunately your DH and FIL have lived with it so long, it is normal for them. You are just begining to realise it is not normal, which is why she wants to push you out, she wants people obedient or not there.

Please do read the toxic parent books and talk to a counsellor about your feelings of panic.

AT some point you have to talk to your DH, but how able he is to recognise the control he has been subjected to all these years is debateable.