Help me have a good relationship with my MIL or DH and I will split

[TheLastOfTheNappies]

I have posted before last year for the back story see first post here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/828190-Another-MIL-story

Basically an awful relationship with MIL - she caused such a horrible time after teh birth of my daughter and made everything about her. DH hasn't made things much better by discussing me/undermining me with his Mother just to avoid a confrontation with her.

The trouble is, I think it's effecting my mental health now. It's certainly effecting our relationship. There have been incidents since that first post that always take us back to where we were last september.

I am always expected to forgive and forget, to move on. But I can't do that anymore. I actually feel physically sick that my MIL is touching her, I want to limit as much contact with her as possible as I feel so wound up/tense/hysterical when she's with her. I didn't start off like this! Im not an overly over-protective mother. I don't go over and see them anymore, DH takes DD to them, but he complains that it's never long enough, not enough time, that she's cried (that's because she's anxious and mummy isn't there I expect, it's sensory overkill when she does visit)

It was her first birthday yesterday, today DH and his parents and other relatives/neighbours are having a little tea party for her. I'm not invited, it hasn't been mentioned. I know I don't see them at the moment, but I do feel odd that my child's having a party that I'm not part of. It's like they have always wanted me not to be there.

I'm sorry for this rambling post. I just think that DH and I are so close to splitting over this. He doesn't see anything that I cite as unreasonable, and not I know that I'm being unreasonable too. I just can't stop these feelings. I don't see how I can play happy families with this woman (which is what DH wants). He expects me to paint over everything. I suspect the whole situation has been made worse because he also believes his mother over me when she is outright lying.

How do I move on from this? How can I accept that she is my daughter's Grandmother? How do I make these relationships work?

TIA

2rebecca - yes i think we may have gone past relate now though. He's stayed at his parents last night for no good reason really, to avoid me. But it's always the choice he makes, them over us. He truly thinks that I am the odd one in all this. I've given up banging my head against a brick wall trying to show him that we need to be a team. I've always told him it doesn't matter what his mother's like as long as we're a united front I can deal with it.

I dont' know what's goign to happen about the party yet - I think I will wait for him to contact me to decide. I suppose he is her father, he can take her if he wants to. But it's the fact that he wants to, without me, that is the dealbreaker. He shouldn't feel that it's acceptable behaviour to exclude me.

I could be financially independent yes. I am working part time from home now, but those hours could be upped easily. (DH has always wanted to send DD to nursery by the way even though I could look after here -that was the reason for the working from home so we wouldn't have to send her) We rent and don't own teh house so that makes things all the more easy regarding splitting of finances.

I think mamsunshine's idea to get away for a few days with your dd sounds like a good one. If you could go to your parents you could have their support whilst you get your head straight and also avoid your dd being taken to this party without you.

In view of recent developments with your dh I think you would not be unreasonable to do this.

We discussed SAHM - I do work, but early in the am, and not many hours at the moment - just enough to keep my hand in.

Realistically I think he resents the time I get to spend with my daughter. He obviously doesn't think that spending time as a family unit is the same as bonding with his daughter alone. He talks a lot about bonding - regarding his mother and DD, him and DD etc. If DD cries and I go to get her he will jump in front and walk off with her so she doesn't put her arms out to me so he can comfort her too. Everything seems very forced. Like he's thinking everything out. I'm v close to my Mum, not so much to my dad - I wonder if that's what he's afraid of? I've always said that I wanted to be much closer to my Dad - I would never try and keep DD and DH apart! I text my mum at least once a day - we just check in, she'll ask how DD is, I'll make sure she's OK. DH once said to me that DD won't be doing that (contacting me everyday) when she's older , and if she calls the house it will be him she wants to talk to....

Can't really take anymore when I write it down.

If I take DD away to my MUm's it will make the idea that it's me and my family and him and his worse though won't it? i.e I won't let you take DD to your parents alone but I'm taking her away for a few days to mine....

OP, be careful to remain as your daughter's primary carer. If you work full-time, would your DH choose a nursery or would he suggest his mother looks after her. And then if you separate, who is the primary carer...MIL.

Maybe I'm being paranoid but everything you've said seems to seek to minimise your role in your daughter's life.

I'm so sorry all this is happening to you. I can't offer any advice because I'm biased. My marriage ended for the same reason. But I feel for you. And you aren't alone.

KathyJelly - why did your marriage end? Your MIL or the way your DH dealt with it? Did you try counselling first?

Oh dear Lord. Leave him ASAP, take your DD with you and make sure that the time he gets with your DD is properly set out (see a solicitor ASAP) and try not to ever think or care about what he or his lunatic family does. You will NEVER fix this. And the chief problem here is not your MIL, it is your husband.

It's all such a mess isn't it! Why did I marry him. When he met me he treated me like a trophy too i suppose (not that there's much trophy-like about me but you know what I mean.)

I don't know why he thinks that way about DD and I's relationship. I'd be made up if our little girl called up to speak to her dad - it would tell me what a nice relationship they had - however he seems to feel jealous of the thought of hte other way around.

I think he doesn't love me. That's got to be the answer. If he's happier when it's him, his mum and DD, then that's not right.

Thank you all by the way, you have made me feel like I'm not alone. I don't know how or when I turned into this weak sap of a woman!

Oh, love, what a horrible situation. I wish I could lend you one of my MILs (I have 2 good 'uns) but failing that I think you need to leave or kick him out. It looks to me like you are being sidelined by your DH and his side of the family, and I also think that he looks, from the outside at least, as though he could become as manipulative and self-centred as her. Think about what you want your life to be like in 5 years. Then in 10, then in 20. What do you want your DD to grow up knowing?

My BIL is estranged from his whole family as he has threatened, lied to, stolen from and physically attacked too many people now. But it took aged for everyone to see how he was, and he wasn't the cornerstone of the family in the same way your MIL is. Your DH should be protecting you and your DD from harm, including emotional abuse, and if he is not prepared to do that you have to find your own safety.

Sending you so many wished for a happy future. You deserve better.

LastOfTheNappies

I have been reading this in complete shock your devil in law is indeed Vile!

i agree with whoever it was that you should not let your DD go tonight, yes he is her father but you are also her mother, you seem to have it in your head that 'he is her father so he can have her tonight' but you are her mother so you have that entitlement too, they have shown ZERO thought when it comes to you so why should you? i agree wit wrting a letter to DH saying everything you feel and that you will not be returning until he accepts that you two work as a teamit is you him and DD and that (both) mil are not included in that set up.

you say that by you taking DD to your mums tonight would create a bigger divide, i think its already to late to worry about that he has done it already by going to his mums last night.

I really feel for you, i had problems with my MIL but not to this scale and luckily my dh saw the light and now understands its us first.

i think for your DD sake you need to not let this happen tonight. its showing them that they can walk over you and what example is it setting DD i know she is too young now but if she grows up see you being treated like shit she will walk all over you to get what she wants from daddy, she could simply tell mil that mummy wont let her have X and mil would buy it for her. you know that.

your a wonderful mum im sure but your mil will poison your DD to behave in this way if you carry on this way you really need to gain some control

i would not be letting DD anywhere near this woman with out me

Lady - probably not! The thing about the Nana name was that he made up a moonpig card to this exact name (he may have left the loo off the end) for his birthday about two months ago. I asked him what on earth he was doing, as he was giving his mother carte blanche to call herself something ridiculous! She also wanted FIL to be called Grumfer?! Um, well, I do'nt understand it. But I wouldn't care if DH just said look Mum, no, this is a bit silly, let's just call you Nana.

NO I don't think DH can see the bigger picture at all. He has managed to convince me that my family are strange and weird and it's just not how people do things. I do think that as you say my 'normality' has got stranger and stranger as the year has gone on.

And he does count times my Mum has seen DD compared to his. I sometimes feel like I have to pretend I haven't been to see my own mother!

I think I do need to get DD out of this situation now, she is not a competition or a pawn or a prize. It makes me feel ill, and takes up so much space in my head when I should be focussing on DD. Maybe though I will just stay here - DH actually left his house key, so I could just tell him to stay with his parents for now. I know that may bring him adn his Mum closer but tbh they can't get that much closer!

ruthosaurus - if you could arrange for aliens to abduct my current MIL and send me one of yours it would be much appreciated! Although as everyone as voiced, it's not really her that's the problem - if DH would grow a pair.

I think I have to remember the times he has stood up for me or backed me up, and I honestly can't remember one. Any arguments we have had in our relationship have been about him letting people around him say what they like about me, including his ex girlfriend's mother. It just goes on and on and I have to accept that he can't/won't change. Not now, or ever.

Should I suggest Relate before I throw away our relationship? Would it help him get perspective? I don't hink it's just his mother, he is like it with friends etc, he likes to be liked and to be the yes man whatever I may think of it

Does your family know what MIL is like ? Have they seen the behaviours she exhibits or is she careful to hide them?
I am just thinking that surely it can't be just your word against hers. It can't be just you thinking she is awful. What are your family and friends reaction to things like the refusal to use your daughters name? Does their reaction not tell DH something?
If you don't want to get into more of the family battle then use the support of friends. Or any other people who can see what is going on.
And MN of course
I am worried he may try and leave you and take DD with him. That would suit mil very well.
Take care.

I think you're being sensible to consider Relate before "throwing away" your marriage. But do you actually like your husband? Do you have any nice times together? Is this marriage actually worth saving? Sorry I don't have any actual advice, but from your posts I get no impression of love, respect, togetherness that I would expect from a functioning marriage.

I guess everyone saying they think that your marriage is over is a bit overwhelming. You don't have to make any decisions immediately, don't feel panicked. I worry taking your DD away for a few days would up the stakes for him and your MIL (whoever is the controller in that relationship they're a pretty toxic pair) and it's in your interest to maintain the status quo while you work out what you want to do, don't give MIL time to plot anything which disenfranchises you.

I would find out where you stand with regards to splitting up and custody. Your DD is so small, and you are so much the primary carer that I would be very surprised if a court would recommend 50/50 at this stage, especially as she would be looked after by your MIL or a nanny rather than him for the majority of the time. As I've said, you don't need to use this knowledge, you guys might work it out with a lot of counselling, but having it will make you stronger. Don't ever threaten him with it, but just know it IYSWIM. Also don't change anything about the care arrangements right now - don't agree to nursery or anything else, even if it's portrayed as something to benefit you or your relationship.

I think the level which he is objectifying your DD is really worrying. While she's still a baby and he can project what he would like her feelings and emotions to be onto her (e.g. she likes her daddy best or she's definitely a daddy's girl or, oh look she's crying, she wants her dad) then it's easy for him, but once she's a toddler and more verbal and can insist she wants her mum then what is he going to do? Is he going to not let her go to you? Is he going to get angry with her? She's going to be a little person with her own ideas, and he doesn't sound like he will be able to cope with that and he may well reject her totally, or try and turn her against you.

What was he like before you had her? Was he competitive over friends, earnings or anything else?

Can you book in to see a solicitor ASAP, I think most do a free 1/2hr? Maybe find out all your rights over home/dd etc first? I have a feeling your dh and mil would make thing's as difficult as possible for you. Best to know all of your rights first.

I personally would leave/separate and not bother with relate or anything UNLESS he realises what he's been like/stands up for you/asks for forgiveness etc etc...But only you will know whether or not he means it then? If he says he/things will change and he will attend counselling with you then you will know whether or not you want to give your marriage another go.

And oh my god I'd forgotten special nana-lainey looney! She's certifiable, honestly. And grumfer is equally ridiculous.

What they do seem to be doing though is slotting your DD into a pre-defined script. I can imagine a grandfather being called grumfer because a baby can't quite manage grandfather, and it was very cute etc etc and it just stuck. But they've skipped all that bit and gone straight to the conclusion. That's not normal.

Nappies, consider it done! Although I suspect it would be more like them taking her back to her home planet than an abduction. I'll see if they can take your DH as well, on a 2-for-1 deal, IYSWIM.

I think you should be proud that you still have a sense of humour, and I think that sometimes bullies (which is what they are) lose some of their power when you stop taking them seriously. However, in order to be able to do that, you need to be outside the situation, where they can't hurt you. I was bullied in high school and some of the techniques used were identical to what you are experiencing: isolation, making you think it's you, beliittling you, excluding you, making you jump through hoops, excluding you etc. And they are doing it because they can, and because no one is stopping them.

I've thought about this all morning and I really believe you need to get out, for the sake of your future relationship with your DD if nothing else. She might suffer what you are going through now, or become part of the anti-you culture, or become another link in this suffocating chain, having as weird a relationship with her grandmother as your DH does with his mum.

And breathe, sorry for long post!

We used to have fun. This last year has felt like a battle over our daughter when it should have been a nice time. When she was a few weeks old he suggested I go out for a while when his parents came over to see her. I think he felt that because I was breastfeeding, and on the couch having cuddles that I was excluding him and other people! I always offered other people to hold her when she wasn't hungry or crying - and he as her Dad wasn't excluded in any way at all!! He made me feel like I was really antisocial!

DD looks exactly like him - or rather she did. But as she's changing and growing she is looking less and less like him. Someone we bumped into in the supermarket happened to mention that she looked like my Mum. As we walked away he said he thought that woman needed her eyes checking, where was her guide dog etc. I was that he'd feel that way about her looking like someone other than him.

He was competitive over girlfriends I think - i.e. mine's better looking than yours/better job - never said but just out there. He's a jealous person by nature, extremely. But it's all about reflected glory for him and his family. Their children, their spouses, the competition isn't necessarily about their own achievements.

I will look into custody and the legalities of everything. As to whether I actually like him or want to be with him? Yes and No! I know we have lovely amazing times together as long as his mother is on holiday or there's no mention of her. But the rest of the time there's this underlying resentment about my mother, me, my closeness with DD. He does try and negatively comment on my parenting such as I'm spoiling her etc. Franke you're right, there's no togetherness at all and it's been like that for a long time. It's not helped by his job I suppose or the fact that we have only spent one evening out and alone away from teh house this year.

FMTD - 3 close friends adn my family all see her behaviour as bonkers. They sympathise. This doesn't give DH perspective. He says they're all biased/i'm making it up/i shouldn't be talking about his mother etc. I mentioned the last thread on MN but he refused to read it, basically saying everyone on here's a man-hating MIL-hating feminist?!?

lucky - a predefined script is exactly what it is!! You've hit the nail on the head. They (MIL and DH) have had planned what they would do when he had a child, she's decided what everyone would be called etc. (Even the 'cute' names lainey is a mispronounciation or her first name that a child would make) We WILL all slot in, and I will two the line or she's going to cry, tell DH she's having to take antidepressants etc.

On FB (yes I know!) she had in the 'About Me' Section that she was the proud G'ma to a beautiful little girl etc. She took that off when she didn't get her own way. I tried to point out to DH that us not being at her beck and call didn't make her any less of a G'ma or DD any less beautiful! But he said I'm just picking holes. It wasn't meant to be an argument. I suppose I always try and find ways to illustrate to him how her behaviour seems to other people, but he Will. Not. Listen.

If I think about it, me saying he could take DD to MILs alone was meant to be a temp measure - I asked him to sort things out set the boundaries then we could go over as a family while I wasn't being disrespected. However this is months and months later and he's done nothing so I have to assume this is how he wants things.

I think Mama's right - it now has to be him who looks at this and realises things won't get better by themselves/. His solution has been for me to 'put up with her as everyone else does'. He now needs to initiate the idea of counselling. He needs to express his desire to put DD and I first - but until he does, I'm not going to push for it.

Ruthosaurus and all of you - thank you for making me feel more like a human being again, I really felt I was losing my mind for a minute. That my friends and family were subjective and just agreeing with me! I know I've been really tense lately and it's come across to DH when he's taken DD to MIL's. I couldn't help letting my face drop or arguing with him that it wasn't right. And I do push that they should call her by her name now (not the mistakes by the way, the obvious references on FB etc), and not what they think it should be, which all makes me sound like a harpee!

Seriously, get out pronto! Anyone got a link to the "behaviours of abusive people" site? I can't remember where it is. Just off for a look.

I lurk around relationships a lot - but I wouldn't put him as abusive...? He's definitely master manipulator.

Little jealous and controlling behaviours about me going out, who I talk to etc, but nothing I'd put as full on emotional abuse. That was definitely in my previousl relationship so thought I'd see signs.