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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is it possible to have affair but stay happily married/attached? Pls be honest.

528 replies

MabelMay · 14/07/2010 15:02

Hello All

I really need your honesty and experiences/opinions.
Without going into too much detail as I do wish to remain as anonymous as possible obviously, I have recently found myself falling for someone other than my DP. We have had our problems in the past, DP and I, but we have two lovely little kids together and I've never really been distracted by another man since being with him (8 years). Until now. Recently, after some months of feeling unbelievably attracted to this person, I've found out he feels exactly the same. I feel like I'm on the precipice of something. I have such strong feelings for this guy and have not felt this happy in years. I really want it to happen and yet I know you'll all think me stupid/selfish/naive/etc. But please tell me: Have any of you ever managed to have a brief fling/affair without it destroying your other relationship? Or know of anyone who has? Is it crazy to even think this can happen? I say brief because he is leaving the country for good at the end of the year... am I mad?

OP posts:
stubbornhubby · 14/07/2010 22:58

Gore Vidal said 'never turn down the opportunity to be on TV, or have sex'

perhaps you should just go for it, and have a great time... after all he'll be out of the country soon.

AnyFucker · 14/07/2010 23:00

helpful

expatinscotland · 14/07/2010 23:05

WWIFN sums it up perfectly as usual.

TDiddy · 14/07/2010 23:23

i am always taken in by the depth of thought of WIFN 's posts on these subjects. I like deep thinkers.

MabelMay · 14/07/2010 23:30

WWIFN - you speak a lot of sense. Yes, there's no denying that I feel an overwhelming sexual attraction towards this OM. Of course it's entirely lust at this point - how can it be love when we have only known each other 3 or 4 months.
However, what I DO know is that I probably would not have thought of succumbing (or opened myself up) to these feelings a year or two ago. My DP has quite a high sex drive and is very up for sex most of the time. However, I have found myself less and less keen to have sex with him and I know for certain that partly this is to do with me feeling hurt and battered (with the love battered along the way) by his rare verbal attacks on me.
At the same time, I can't pretend he is a neglectful partner or dad. He does lots of childcare (when he can), cooks lots, helps around the house, etc etc whilst at the same time holding down a very successful high-profile career with lots of travel. Anyway, in conclusion he is not this big two-dimensional arsehole of a DP who doesn't deserve me etc etc. I know that. That would be so much easier.
He is deeply flawed and maybe we're not well-suited, ultimately.
But obviously I'm deeply flawed too, right?

Thanks to those of you who have given thoughtful replies and haven't had the knee-jerk response of labelling me a selfish slut with no thought for my kids. Do you think anyone in the world cares more about my kids than I do?
I wish I could be perfect. I wish I had the highest morals in the world. I wish I could be totally selfless.
I can't.

OP posts:
MabelMay · 14/07/2010 23:36

TDiddy I'd like to think I could try and keep this as a fantasy. I wish I could. I will certainly try. Yes, have already imagined him in my head whilst making love to DP. Sorry. But lots of you must do that sometimes, right?

OP posts:
MabelMay · 14/07/2010 23:37

Time for bed. I got back from an evening out and have read all posts, although in a somewhat tipsy state. Will be able to sift through in a more sober-minded manner tomorrow...

OP posts:
MabelMay · 14/07/2010 23:40

oh - and fabatforty - i appreciate your post

OP posts:
abedelia · 14/07/2010 23:42

Akhems, if I met you I would hug you for that post... death would be easier because they don't choose to die do they, whereas they DO choose to inflict all this pain.

OP - I think, having read your story, that if you opened up to your H and had some counselling then you could have a good marriage. After all, until something more shiny popped up you had managed this far, and as you say, he has many good points apart from a terrible past that has damaged him and caused him not to trust you so he pushes you away when you get too close to test you.

If he knew what you had considered (and had the integrity and strength to walk away from), I think he would see you as a goddess actually. You would break the infidelity pattern he has always known. You are currently looking at him trying to see all the flaws to justify what your hormones want to do, and with someone who is about to bugger off and so can provide you no future.
Sorry.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 14/07/2010 23:49

No-one's suggesting you need to be perfect, or morally superior, or selfless. Don't say "I can't" because that means you've given up on yourself too easily.

You CAN choose to be unselfish. You can take responsibility for this. You can choose to stop being passive-aggressive in the way you're responding to this crisis and our posts.

I expect you won't, but one of the kindest things you could do right now would be to sit down with your partner and tell him about all of this. Explain why you've reached this fork in the road. This opens up a window to him and might finally start the path of resolution and conciliation between you. You might say you've done this because you know how much infidelity has hurt him in the past and you don't want to do that to him, but as a couple, you both need to heed this wake-up call.

Real, searching, grown-up honesty is needed here.

TDiddy · 15/07/2010 07:50

MabelMay - is it possible that you and your DH are in a downward spiral where you don't feel like sleeping him because he is mean and insensitive. He is in turn mean and insensitive cos he is sexually frustrated which in turn understandably puts you off him even more.

Perhaps your fantasy man might be just as bad in marriage so how about spending a bit of repair time on relationship with your DH and leave fantasy man as a friend for now. I guarantee you that there will be other fantasy men along the way

Oblomov · 15/07/2010 08:47

I am fascinated by fabatforty's post. alot of it i initially think, oh i don't agree with thta. and I think it is almost imposssible to find a Neutral party. becasue we all comer, to any table, with our own beliefs, our morals, our own expereinces.
But I will give he rpost some thought. and try and see if i can understand her viewpoint.
And am intrigued by whenwillifeelnormal's post. some of what she says i agree with . i suspect the US women were lying.

I am one of those ( i now am starting to think that i am unusual in this) that has never beem vaguely attracted to anyone other than my dp at the time. since marrying my dh, i have had zero attraction to anyone else. never. zero.
I wonder why this is ?

Oblomov · 15/07/2010 08:54

"I wish I could be perfect. I wish I had the highest morals in the world. I wish I could be totally selfless.
I can't."

You don't have ot be Op. No one is asking you to be perefct. we are just asking you to give this more thought.

MabelMay · 15/07/2010 09:21

Oblomov, WWIFN, - honestly I don't intend to sound passive-aggressive. I'm certainly not feeling petulant. It's hard to get the tone right with some of these posts and I'm not that into emoticons. I know no-ones asking me to be perfect (well, actually, a few people seem to think that anything less than perfection is unacceptable but they in small minority). I'm saying that to myself rather than addressing it to the baying crowd, as it were.

Also, WWIFN - perhaps I will sit down with my DP and tell him about this. I don't know right now. I know at the moment I'm still thinking about this OM too much to remove myself from the situation in a rational way. I hope this will happen when we take our family holiday in August. I need to figure out how much I want to rescue us.
At the moment, if I'm honest, I think more about what it would feel like to kiss OM than what I should do to fix things with DP. However, that's not to say that that's the way I'm going to go.

You're all giving me a lot of food for thought.
Sometimes I think me and DP are just inherently unsuited. We rub each other up the wrong way - well, I certainly seem to have that effect on him.

Probably naive of me to think I could have a couple of months escapism with a wonderful OM without someone/everyone getting hurt etc

OP posts:
TDiddy · 15/07/2010 09:44

Pausing and thinking is the right thing to do as you suggest OP.

Suppose the key diff between this man and your DH is that you have mutual built resentment. SO this man offers chance to hit the "reset button". But in 10 years he could be worse than your DH. Just something to think about. Give your DH a fair shot. How about just talking to DH about the top three things you want from him on a day to day basis and vice versa. Each talk in turn without interruption or personal attack. Revist every week for a few months and see where you are after that.

abedelia · 15/07/2010 11:23

Mabel - yes, very naive, I'm afraid. Even if the relationship has had problems, if the deception is uncovered you will forever be the 'weak, lying adulterer' rather than having walked away on an equal footing. And it will get back to your children, too.

I think the affair would do you lots of harm mentally, actually. It sounds to me like you really want someone to be committed to loving and cherishing you - that's the root of many problems with your partner, as he constantly pulls back from this so it has eroded your confidence in him.

Why then get involved with another man who is going to let you form an attachment to him and then abandon you without committing? How will you feel? That you somehow are not good enough to find someone who wants to be with you always?

izquierda · 15/07/2010 11:49

Mabel, I have read this whole thread with interest. Two years ago I was in your position. I acted upon my impulses and had an "affair" of sorts - OM and I were physically intimate but didn't have full sex; this went on for several months, although with hindsight I see it was mainly at my instigation/encouragement. Many of the elements of your story resonate with mine. But two years down the line I am here to say DON'T, PLEASE DON'T. Please believe me, it will only lead to great unhappiness. My OM eventually must have tired of me, he stopped contacting me, dumped me without a word of explanation, nothing.
Abdelia is 100% right, I have been scarred mentally; I formed an attachment to OM - indeed I think I fell in love with him - he then totally abandoned me. I feel "not good enough", "less than" and all because I gave myself to someone not worthy when my OH is completely worthy- we just both need to work on the marriage (a long one) - and we are starting to do so. My OH hs faults and so do I but I now know from very bitter experience that having an affair is not the answer.
You sound a very kind thoughtful person, I'm sure you're a great wife and devoted mum. This other guy is also leaving soon. Please don't do this to yourself.
I accept resposibility for what I did but with hindsight, my "affair" brought only misery to me, whilst I am sure the OM just carries on merrily with his life, oblivious to the emotional carnage left behind. I seriously misjudged my ability to cope with the implications and if there's one thing I can do it's to try and share my experience and hopefully prevent it happening to others.
Mabel, I send you love and best wishes

fabatforty · 15/07/2010 12:05

I wasn't going to post again because I find the prevailing view on mumsnet about monogamy is adrift to the complex reality of people going through life trying to cope with complex emotions. But I have to respond to Akhem's post which I find absurd. I have yet to meet an attached person who has had an affair who has been particularly happy. Please find me one, because I don't know any. I've done some working in a counselling capacity (no not the one who necessarily advocates having an affair by the way before the stones start being thrown). I can honestly say I have never met a happy adulter. No doubt they are out there but perhaps they don't seek counselling.

For the vast majority of people the type of situation that the OP is describing ends up being highly traumatic (I think this is especially the case with women). The intense trauma that ensues from struggling to cope with such seemingly conflicting emotions leads people into depression, sometimes even worse. Those that seek out therapy are in pain and hurting.

A person will want to do the right thing and put the marriage and family first, but the emotions are leading them in another direction. In the long term, ignoring emotions leads to chronic ill-health.

Yes of course one option is to sit down with partner and discuss exactly how one feels and be brutally honest. eg: I have met someone else who I fancy and I want to have sex with them. How do you feel about that? In general, this is not a route that is necessarily going to lead in a particuarly positive direction. The endless discussions and debates about why someone may or may not fancy someone/do you really love me etc etc.

Let me put the scenario another way round just so some of the fundamentalist lobbby can consider that perhaps their rigid views are also quite selfish. IF my partner met someone who he "fell head over heels with" with all of the ensuing emotional drama attached, I would not stand in his way. In actual fact, I would consider that to be quite selfish because I would be preventing him from exploring something that MIGHT lead to greater happiness. And I would never want to do that.

OBVIOUSLY, if he were to test drive the new love of his life (with or without my knowledge/consent in a way it doesn't really matter) it would have the affect of changing the dynamics of our relationship. That is a risk that he would have to take. I might feel him pulling away and I might think: I don't like this, I am not sure if I am as happy as before. On the other hand, it might inject new excitement into our relationship (I am not a jealous person). Or, I might think: this has shown me that we are not as compatible as I thought and I might start questioning the relationship from my own perspective. None of those things would be bad in themselves, but all of them could take me away from him. He would have taken that risk and he would have to deal with the consequences.

It might just be a phase that he (or I)were going through and he might come out the other side and decide that it was just a fling. I might accept that, but I might not.

Do you see what I am saying? Every action has a consequence. Anyone considering this kind of thing will have already weighed up all the possible consequences and it is not a comfortable place to be.

Taghain · 15/07/2010 12:10

Yes.
Many years ago I had an affair which ended when my best friend told my DP about it. I've not spoken to BF since but our marriage is still going and the affair made me realise how much I had to lose and how much I appreciated DP.
In many ways the affair saved our marriage. I think without it we might have split up through neglecting each other.

ilovemyteddy · 15/07/2010 12:14

In answer to your original OP yes I chose to have a brief affair and no it didn't destroy my other relationship, because my DH is unaware that it happened.

You'll notice I emboldened the word 'chose' because that's what I did, and that's what you'll be doing, if you decide to go ahead and have an affair. When I had my EMA I wasn't having problems in my marriage. The opportunity to have a 'brief fling' was there, and as WWIFN says I just quite fancied the idea of having sex with someone else. So I did.

My primary relationship is still intact, the OM is long gone, but I have changed irrevocably. I am living with the knowledge that I cheated, lied, and had sex with someone who was not my DH. The boost to my self-esteem that came from the constant attention of OM was shattered when the EMA ended and I realised what I had done, what I had risked, and how I had abandoned my sense of self and respect for myself and my DH -all for a quick shag.

I think from reading your OP and answers to subsequent posters, that your self-esteem and confidence may have been undermined by your DP's flare-ups, and that you need to spend some time looking at your relationship but also at yourself, so that you can set yourself some personal boundaries about what you want, what you will 'put up with' in your relationship and what needs to be fixed, either within yourself, or within your current relationship.

I'm sure your head's all over the place right now that you have started looking at your relationship with DP. Give yourself time, but don't complicate things by bringing another person into the equation.

Please don't think that having an affair will solve anything. Listen to women like me, who have been where you are thinking about going, but also listen to those women who have posted what you may consider harsh words about infidelity. Because, having lurked on here for a good while now those 'harsh' words have been a more valuable lesson to me than the support and counselling I have had in the past.

sincitylover · 15/07/2010 12:27

Agree with much of what you have said fabatforty.

I am nearly 100% sure my exh cheated on me (though it was alwasy denied) but actually that wasn't the most pressing part of what was wrong with my relationship and therefore was never my priority to deal with IYKWIM.

I can see that if you are married to more of a cerebral, intellectual type of man you could prob sit down and spill all but with some types of men this could potentially be quite dangerous re their possibly violent or abusive reaction or the deep hurt you might cause them.

In my case my exh was that type of man but also possibly aspergers so didn't appear to be jealous of me whatsoever do don't hink there would have been any point in discussing.

If something is very unclear in your own head not sure that discussing it with your p will help to give clarity it will prob muddy the waters as you will then be dealing with the fallout from that as well.

I had a bad crush quite early on in my marriage which took me by complete surprise as I was still a newlywed but didn't act upon it (think it was reciprocated) but would have never dreamt of sitting down with h to discuss. It passed and we carried on as before.

When living with another dp (have only had one live in dp and one dh LOL) many years ago I had a terrible crush on my boss but again didn't discuss with p or anyone else for that matter.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 15/07/2010 13:08

The complex issue I suspect you have overlooked in your theory Fab is that actually, it really matters whether you know about an affair. You imply it "doesn't matter" whether you would know or not, because it has the same effect.

If your DP is someone who gets involved in a series of brief flings that are never mentioned or discussed, then yes, perhaps you have learned to notice the signs and can decide accordingly how you will react. Perhaps in this situation, you can "know" without it ever being acknowledged.

For people in other relationships, where monogamy is explicitly expected and there would be absolutely no expectation of "turning a blind eye" if suspicions were raised, it is different.

What tends to happen then is that because of the enormous trust default in such relationships, the deceived partner starts to feel terrible, without actually knowing why. They pin it on to other things and worst of all, they start blaming themselves. They feel their partner distancing from them and look inwards, wondering if it's their fault that they've been too preoccupied lately, too busy with work, the DCs or the extended family.

If other things have also gone wrong in recent months, such as bereavements, illness, work disappointments etc., they pin their unease and unhappiness on those issues. But at some level, they acknowledge that their feelings of misery are disproportionate to what's happened. The internal dialogue is "Yes, life has been shit for a while, but I'm surprised I feel this bad."

You suggest that the unfaithful partner knows the risk that "pulling away" causes i.e. their partner might vote with their feet. But unless this goes on for years, the deceived partner very often won't walk away. That person blames themselves, especially if they have been told that the distancing is due to work stress or some other factor. Because they love their partner, they support him/her and cut them some slack.

In even more extreme cases, the deceived partner is gaslighted by their spouse and told that any suspicions they have are paranoia. This leads to perfectly sane people feeling that they are going mad.

For a non-jealous, trusting person who has never experienced infidelity before, it matters terribly that they know about an affair. That knowledge allows the person to make choices and attribute their recent feelings of unhappiness to what was really causing it.

Now whereas unlike you, I have met several "cheerful" adulterers who really aren't wracked with guilt and misery, I agree that when essentially good people have affairs, they become terribly damaged by them. It is often overlooked that the process of deceiving and lying, if aberrant to someone's general values and character, causes a terrible conflict and dissonance. They become damaged too.

And you may have misunderstood about the advice about discussing temptations with a partner - and perhaps your dislike of drama and emotional discussions is colouring your viewpoint on this.

That discussion is not "How would you feel if I slept with someone else?" it is "I'm worried that I fancy someone else and I don't want to have an affair and deceive you. Can we talk about what this means? I know it's normal that we might fancy other people and it might be just a crush. I know that secrecy about stuff like this makes the person even more exciting, so help me get some perspective about this. I know what I'm saying is hurtful, but it's because I don't want to lie or deceive you that I'm telling you this and asking for your help. I love you and I don't want to do anything that will hurt us as individuals, our relationship and of course anything that would hurt the children."

Yes, there will be some hurt and jealousy, but nothing like the pain of infidelity and deceit.

I can't see anything In Akhems' posts that warrant being called absurd, or any fundamentalist views that might provoke stones being thrown.

The OP asked for honest advice and by and large, I think that's what she's getting.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 15/07/2010 13:54

Also, in response to the OP specifically and the notion of telling your DP about this, I think you've hit the nail on the head. You (personally) would only tell your DP if you were completely invested in the relationship and it was more important to save it, than have an affair.

I can also see that revealing temptation to an abusive or violent partner would be dangerous and unwise - and pointless with someone who perhaps isn't invested themselves (e.g Sin's ex perhaps).

For other people who don't want to risk the primary relationship at all - and are hugely invested in it and that investment is mutual, the more unpalatable reason for not telling is because they don't want to deny themselves the opportunity of an affair and bargain that what the eye can't see, the heart can't grieve for.

The reality is shockingly different.

I applaud ILoveMyTeddy for being brave enough to tell it how it is. Even if no obvious damage has been caused to the unknowing partner (and actually, that's a moot point), damage has most definitely been caused, because something about the deceiver's sense of self has irrevocably changed, as has the fabric of the primary relationship. In many cases, this can only be healed by disclosure, within certain safeguards - and dependent on the personality and emotional health of the deceived partner. Disclosure to the violent, abusive or non-invested would, as before, be either dangerous or pointless.

Oblomov · 15/07/2010 14:10

wwifN, you're knowledge, insight and facts are amazing. how do you know this stuff ? have you ever had an affir/dh been unfaithful are you a counsellor.
teh only trouble is, is thta i can not relate to anything you say. like when you say a person questions is it me, have i been paying attention to extended family too much etc tec. well, i think thta would be a thought of mine. for a second.
but i honestly do not think thta i would behave the way you describe at all. but is wat you describe a normal persons re-action ?
i would cosider these things for one day. ask dh outright and then i guess the hurt would be too much . and i would be destraught. and cry and cry that someone could let me down so much. and then he would have to leave. and how very very sad all of this would be.
or are all of my comments naieveity ?

MabelMay · 15/07/2010 14:56

izquierda, Taghain and i lovemyteddy - thanks for sharing your personal experiences.

It seems no one experience is the same.

However, majority opinion is (unsurprisingly I suppose) definitely DON'T DO IT.

I don't know what I'll do. Yet. DP is away for a few weeks so in a way it's a good opportunity to have some head space.

Desperately confused/unresolved at mo...

OP posts:
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