Is it possible to have affair but stay happily married/attached? Pls be honest.

[MabelMay]

Hello All

I really need your honesty and experiences/opinions.
Without going into too much detail as I do wish to remain as anonymous as possible obviously, I have recently found myself falling for someone other than my DP. We have had our problems in the past, DP and I, but we have two lovely little kids together and I've never really been distracted by another man since being with him (8 years). Until now. Recently, after some months of feeling unbelievably attracted to this person, I've found out he feels exactly the same. I feel like I'm on the precipice of something. I have such strong feelings for this guy and have not felt this happy in years. I really want it to happen and yet I know you'll all think me stupid/selfish/naive/etc. But please tell me: Have any of you ever managed to have a brief fling/affair without it destroying your other relationship? Or know of anyone who has? Is it crazy to even think this can happen? I say brief because he is leaving the country for good at the end of the year... am I mad?

Going back to what you said in answer to my questions:

No, I don't think it's a good idea to send one last text or one last email. Every contact you have with him contains the possibility that he will say something you don't understand. Then you will feel a need to ask 'why did you say x' and you're back on the roundabout.

You're right, it takes more of an effort to break contact these days. But it does mean that you see your own willpower in action far more. I have used the 'block' facility on Facebook and Messenger, and I have put his email address into my email provider's spam sorter, so nothing could ever reach me. But yes, should I choose to, I too could tap my fingers and be in touch. It's just that I am further down the line than you are from the time it all happened, and now I don't WANT to be in touch with him.

I think you should keep the word 'vengeful' in mind when you are having discussions about his rants at the counselling session. It seems to me that this 'eye for an eye' type of behaviour is a crippling force in any relationship - whether that's friends, family or partner. Stuff happens, people make mistakes, but if they constantly throw those mistakes at each other like weapons, what happens to their sense of safety and peace within a relationship?

I do understand why for now you have decided not to tell him about OM. You know him and you know your relationship.

I think Bigregrets is right about thinking of each day as a day closer to the point where your pain will be a thing of the past. It may take a long time, but it will happen. You'll stop counting how many days it is since you last saw him/heard from him. But that won't happen by magic - it will happen through you and DP making changes to how your relationship works. And as you said, the next few months will show you (singular) if you (plural) are willing or able to do that.

And we'll be here to bounce your thoughts off if you need to!

Can I make a suggestion though? Why don't you start a brand-new thread that is about working on your relationship with DP. Not only will it be symbolic of a fresh start, but also it will avoid those occasional posters replying to your original OP without realising that your thoughts have moved on.

x

Bigregrets, I think you are doing just fine talking sense to yourself! It sounds as if you are turning the beam of your focus back to your DH, which is where it is needed. Have you got a thread about this?

Yes WW this page

I'm trying my best - onwards and upwards hey!

Hi Mabel, bigregrets and WW

WW your post of 10.02am could have been written by me (although less eloquently I fear!) Like you I made a bad choice (compounded in my case by being married myself as well as pursuing a 'relationship' with a married man); like you I fell in love and had my heart broken; and like you I have to live with the consequences.

Your comment about "the way to stop something happening again is to understand how and why it happened in the first place, and work on that" is exactly the approach that I took, and continue to take. And it's the approach that I think you , Mabel and bigregrets need to take yourselves.

Until you both stop directing your energy towards OM and the false romantic notion of "I love him, I miss him" and start directing it towards the 'how and why it happened' you are not going to be able to move your lives forward.

I was going to post something similar to WW about how you may need to start a new thread about your issues with DP (both of you), but she got there first - again You will get different posters responding with their experiences which may help you both. I think you both have genuine issues in your respective relationships and you should concentrate on resolving them.

One of my mottos is better to move forward slowly than to stand still. By concentrating on your current relationships rather than looking back on your affairs you will be able to have a clearer picture of exactly how to move forward (with or without current partners) from the situation in which you currently find yourselves.

Hello ilmt, how are you doing? Hope things are getting a little better for you and your family. It is a particularly hard time of year.

I think you are absolutely right in what you say - it's all about where you choose to direct your energy. And it is so important to move forward - however slowly - rather than stand still.

I was just thinking about these words we use - 'energy' and 'love'. Love is limitless, but energy isn't. And you do have to put energy into love - different amounts of energy for different types of love.

I mean, I have cousins who I love, but I never speak to them on the phone, I only see them once a year, I don't think of them all the time. That's fine for them , but it wouldn't do for my relationship with my mum - I speak to her and think about her much more often, and our relationship wouldn't work well otherwise. And the love I put the most energy into is the love I have for my DP, who I see every day at home, and whose thoughts and needs and troubles and joys I am most conscious of, I suppose.

I don't really know where I'm going with that, I was just mulling it over.

hello ilmt - we've missed you. hope things are okay at home etc.

new thread is very good idea - i'm very rushed as i write this but wanted to say hello.

My fear is this: that i just don't love my DP enough any more, it's not worth fighting for and we don't make each other happy

but i suppose that's what the counselling will help us discover...

back later x

WW that's an interesting 'mull' you ahve just had. In my current situation I too am mulling over the nature of 'love' and 'energy'. My mum has just been diagnosed as terminally ill and we have a short time left together. So my energy at the moment (and that of my wonderful DH) is almost entirely concentrated on her and making the time we have left together as comfortable and happy as we can.

She has had a long life, well lived, so the sadness I feel at knowing that we don't have a lot of time left to spend together is tempered by the fact that we have had a life together of wonderful times and happy memories that nothing can change.

This time last year my DH also had a life threatening diagnosis which, thank God, appears to have been sorted out successfully - but these two events have put an awful lot of perspective on my life to the point where I know what is important to me, and what needs to be discarded (i.e. any thoughts of OM, and my own selfish thoughts of heartbreak and 'loss' and the struggle to deal with my guilt.) In many ways what I have dealt with/am dealing with have helped me, in a perverse way, to rediscover the sense of 'self' that I lost during my EMAs. To put it simply I know what I want, and how to avoid situations and feelings that are bad for me. And I have found an inner strength that I thought I'd lost during the whole EMAs debacle.

Mabel if, at the end of your counselling you truly feel that you don't love DP enough and that your relationship is not worth fighting for then you have to end it, hard as that will be to do. As long as you base that on the reality of your situation with DP and not on some romantic flight of fancy about Mr Wonderful who is waiting for you on the other side of the world, then I will salute your courage and wish you a happy new life without DP.

ILMT, my sympathy and thoughts are with you. I know that there is nothing one can say that's any comfort or use, but I am so sorry.

When I was 17, my mother and I nursed her mother through a terminal illness at home. I was very young and every situation is different, but I know it must be exhausting on an emotional and physical level, and emotions may come that you would never have imagined.

For us, finding some release from that was vital. (It was actually watching Neighbours every day - and for those 20 minutes or so we were able to think Madge and Harold instead of drugs and doctors.) So if you do have something that takes your thoughts away from it for a short while, don't feel guilty (as we did) - it replenishes your energy in a much-needed way.

It sounds as if you have a wonderful relationship with your mother, and as you have said, that is something that you can hold on to and that will never change or leave you.

Sending you all good wishes and thoughts.

Thank you so much for those words WW. Mum is comfortable, happy and pain-free. I can't ask for more than that. Unfortunately we are unable to care for her at home now so life is kind of still normal in that, although I am visiting her twice a day, the rest of my life goes on as normal. As the time gets closer this will change, but for now I am replenishing my energy with work, and the love and support of DH and my friends and family.

We do have a wonderful relationship, as I did with my late father, and that is truly something to hold onto.

Sorry to hi-jack your thread Mabel. xx

ILMT - Thanks for your advice. I think i shall start a new thread about moving on and what i intend to do with H to make things better ( hard when he is oblivious to it all)
It has been 10 days now since contact with OM - i was very very tempted yesterday to contact him to say hi BUT i didn't as i don't have his number in my phone - i can get it online from my phone bill, but i stopped myself and lordy i feel so much better today for it! I have lots planned for next few days too so that should stop me being tempted.

How are things with you all?

Hi there - I am relatively new to this site. I am in a very very similiar situation to MabelMay. I read this thread from start to finish last night and I feel it has helped me tremendously and provided some great perspective. There was some great advice and many words of wisdom/experience.

I shall read it again over the next few days and copy and paste the posts/advice that really struck a cord with me and helped to look at in my many moments of weakness and sadness.

Thanks again.

bigregrets, hi. Well done for keeping up the no contact. I keep meaning to write a proper post - before I give this one up, as it were, and possibly move on to a new one about me and my DP. I still find myself frequently wondering if I just wouldn't be better/happier on my own. But I know my heads not clear enough yet.
I want to respond to ilmt and WW properly at some point.
ilmt - maybe one of the big differences between my situation and yours is that you always had the knowledge of your DH's love and commitment to fall back on. You had those vows you made - you knew he'd made a lifelong commitment to you. My DP has never done that. In fact he has made it clear he has always had niggling doubts. What foundation is that for me to fall back on? I know he loves me but there is just so much hurt and anger there now I don't know if I can ever fix it properly... I guess I've never felt "cherished" by DP, I suppose.

ilmt my issues must seem so trivial to you in the midst of your mother's sickness. Sending you my thoughts. xx

OM sent me a text this morning - quite a few in fact. I didn't initiate contact. I did respond. Eventually. But only in a goodbye way. He was obviously in a very affectionate mood. Telling me everything I had meant to him and the way he would remember me. Perhaps I should have ignored him completely. But how could I? It was everything I wanted to hear, of course. He'll be gone in two weeks and that'll be it then anyway.

FaffTastic - are you where I was at the beginning of this thread? Or where I am now? Can you tell us anything about your situation?

If you read this whole thread, first off: well done! You must think I'm a fool. Secondly, there was a period in the middle of the thread where I started posting elsewhere, when I got back in touch with OM and it all started again. I thought I'd done so well. But I got a text from him in late August and that was all it took to set the whole thing off again.

I don't know the state of your marriage/relationship - but if I can help in any way (e.g. tell you what NOT to do!) then do post here...

MMx

Hi Mabel, good to hear from you. You sound a little bit flat - what sort of day have you been having?

Hope this doesn't sound too odd, but your words have put a picture in my mind of you trying to get out of an enclosed garden. The exit is blocked by a huge brick wall. So you keep wandering around the garden and smelling the flowers and telling yourself 'it's all right in here really', but every now and then you end up standing back in front of that wall.

Obviously in my image your DP's behaviour is the brick wall and OM is the flowers. The point is that you do not seem to feel free. You are not choosing to be in this place. And perhaps the feelings and thoughts you are having right now about OM, although very powerful, are not coming from a place of freedom and clear-headedness.

I don't think that this is one of those times when you can be 100% sure that life will be better if you make choice A rather than choice B. Should you decide to leave, on some level it'll be a gamble. You may only be able to say that you believe that after the dust has settled, you will be happier.

This may not be something that could work for you, but have you thought about asking him for some 'time apart'? Maybe it's a cruel (to him) thing for me to suggest, I don't know. But for some reason after your last post I keep thinking about freedom.

Hello FaffTastic, it's great that this thread is helping you - I hope that you will take Mabel up on her offer and post here. I know she'll offer great advice and support.

WWx

MabelMay - I'm prob at the stage where you are now, only my feelings for the OM have been going on for 20 months now, and selfishly and heartbreakingly I actually married my (now) DH during that period.

I said my final goodbye to the OM yesterday. This has been the latest of many 'final' goodbyes to him but I am determined to stick to it this time. Unfortunatley we work together so I normally have to see him on an almost daily basis but I will now not be seeing him again until January.

Our goodbye yesterday ended with a very tender hug and him giving me a Christmas card where he poured out, once again, his feelings towards me. It is so so hard and this thread really really helped me through a very difficlut and emotional night yesterday.

I love him, he consumes my thoughts, I have ended up on anti-depressants because of this, and at many times have felt I am close to some sort of breakdown.

However, this time I am totally determined to get closure, move on (for the sake of my own mental and emotional sanity if nothing else) and really try to put him behind me.

I know, through reading this thread, that the OM has resulted in me buring my head in the sand with the issues concerning my DH and I really really need to focus on my marriage now and decide if me and my DH can make it. The OM needs to do the same with his DP.

If I leave my marriage I want it to be for the right reasons and not for another man, and my feelings and emotions have been so so confused I need to stop feeling what I do for the OM before I can decide what to do about my marriage.

Anyway, this has turned into a bit of a semi-ramble when all I really wanted to say was I understand totally what you are going through and some of the posters on this thread have been fantastic in their advice.

P.S I don't think you're a fool at all. If you're a fool, then I'm an even bigger one!

I thought I should come on here and post one last time to let those of you who offered such great advice and a great sounding board know how I'm doing, how it's going.

fafftastic first of all - I hope you are doing okay and managed to have an okay christmas with your DH? How are things moving on that front? Have you managed to stay out of contact with the OM. I know just how horribly hard it is. I couldn't do it, in the end.

Everyone else:
ilmt sending you my thoughts once again. Hope your mother is comfortable and that you're not too exhausted. Happy new year.

wordweaver, Happy new year too. There's lots to say but I'll keep this as brief as possible.

I have good days and bad days. Yesterday was great. I felt upbeat and was looking forwards. But today I feel a bit crappy and most generally my mood is one of pessimism about the future, and overwhelming sadness at missing the OM. I know, I know, I know that I have to move forwards from this and I really am focussing on that. It's just I can't help miss him sometimes. But that's not important now. I won't look back.

What I have really been examining, in myself and in my counselling is WHY it happened. I don't know if I'm just not in the right place right now but I still keep coming back to the fact that I just wasn't/still am not happy in my relationship with DP. This is not me trying to make excuses for my affair - honestly. I wouldn't do that. I want to be completely up front and honest. I'm not saying there aren't gaps in my own life, outside of the relationship, that I need to fill. But so much of my unhappiness stems from feeling so bloody unsure now that I should be with the father of my kids.

Yesterday my DP started talking about our pension, increasing contributions etc and I literally felt my heart racing and it was almost as if I was having the beginnings of a panic attack. I felt so terrified all of a sudden (perhaps a melodramatic word but my heart was in my mouth) - just panicked at the idea of thinking about us, still together, in 30 years time. Inside I was saying "why are we talking about pensions when we're not going to be together when we're older?". I am so, so, so sad and anxious that I feel this way about us. This has nothing to do with my feelings for the OM, I promise. I am not factoring him as a possible partner in my future. Honestly. I just can't get beyond believing that I would be (and my DP would be) happier being apart from each other.

I also realised, however, that in all this talk about pensions, finances etc how very fragile things like that are for me. We're not married. I bring in barely any money. My career is totally f**ked since stopping for kids. All of the money going into this pension, all our savings are now HIS. And I feel almost trapped by this.

I'm going on a bit of a ramble.

I am trying to be as honest as I can with my DP about my feelings. I've not (yet) told him about OM. The counselling is ongoing. Right now it is convincing me that my happiness lies outside of this relationship - but apparently it can get worse before it gets better? Is that right?

On the other hand, my DP has a real spring in his step and seems to think the counselling is just a great way of bringing us closer together. Even though he knows I'm really unhappy at the moment.

It's not just him, though. It's seeing my future being mapped out for me in a way that just sends me into complete panic mode. Most of my DP's "couple friends" are about 5 or 6 years older than me. I realised as we went to this big dinner party the other day, looking around the table, that all the men there had these tremendously exciting, successful, often lucrative careers - and all the women - bloody hell - they'd all stopped working, sacrificed whatever they'd been doing before, to support their partners/husbands and look after the kids. And everything was so bloody middle class and kitchens and kids schools and where we going on holiday and - I just wanted to run away from it all. And I still feel that. I want to run away from this. It can't be what life is about can it?

I know now that this is part of what I found so attractive in OM. His total un-middle-classness. His complete unpretentiousness. His complete contentment at doing something that made him truly happy without caring what anyone else thought about it.

I'm really thinking aloud here without filtering.

It is time for me to let this thread die, I know. I'm not sure where I'll post when I need to vent, seek advice. I guess maybe some time I'll start a new thread as I try and figure out things with the DP. Maybe. Although I fear I have bored the whole of Mumsnet to tears by now.

I'm really sorry if these reads like a rant.

Thank you all of you, especially ilovemyteddy and wordweaver for always being there with your understanding and support and tough love. If it weren't for you I've no doubt I would have gone headlong into the affair back in July and god knows what mess I would be in right now.

MMx

was trying to write that with my youngest DS at my feet and re-reading it it comes across rushed and melodramatic. don't mean to sound so melodramatic. was meant to be an update. but ended up being random thoughts. Anyway, onwards and upwards...

Hi Mabel

I've been lurking around MN for a while now, not posting, but I saw that you had posted and wanted to reply to you. Thanks for asking about my mother. She is being well looked after and is doing okay at the moment.

I think if your conclusion as to 'why' it happened is that you are not happy in your relationship with DP then that's your answer. Affairs happen for many reasons, and it's been obvious to me, WW and other posters right from the start of your thread that you haven't been happy with DP because of his lack of committment and his six-monthly 'freak-outs'. It's not an excuse, it's a valid reason.

WRT the middle-class dinner party - I SOOOO understand where you are coming from! I remember sitting at a similar event when the DC were young and people were talking about curtains, china patterns and school catchment areas and I thought 'OMG. Did I really work my arse off at school and uni for this?' As soon as the DC were old enough I got back into the workplace and, although it was a major balancing act between family, home and work, my career has blossomed now that the DC are off my hands (well, in theory, anyway :) )and I became ME again, instead of someone's mum/wife.

I think that the episode with OM has brought a lot of things in focus for you - you've given up some of your dreams and ambitions to have a relationship and family with someone who won't commit.

You may want to start looking at/asking questions about/start a new thread about the possibility of splitting up with DP and going it alone. I know it's a scary thought because of security and finances but there are people on here who can tell you what you are entitled to money-wise etc and about the reality of being a single parent.

And don't give up on those dreams and ambitions. You are still young - take it from one who knows, once the DC are older you can still make those dreams happen.

Your original thread title made some of us offer you tough love in order to give you a flavour of the reality of having an affair whilst being/staying married. As you have talked about your relationship with DP it has become clear that the question of do I/don't I have an affair was the tip of the iceberg, and that there are a lot of other issues you need to sort out between you and DP.

As I said upthread, if you decide to leave DP for what IMHO are very valid reasons, then I will salute your courage. Please continue to post, maybe on a new thread.

Hi ilmt - it's really good to hear from you. Thanks for posting.

Re: the dinner party. Oh god it was so depressing, I can't tell you. How old were your DCs when you went back to work? Was it back to what you were doing before? I do work now, but part-time and very haphazardly and it's nothing like what I was doing before. Plus it's from home, which I actually find pretty depressing in itself. Need to get out.

Regarding my feelings about my DP. It's funny you say it's been obvious to you for some time. When I read back on my thread now, trying to see it from an outsiders point-of-view, I can see immediately how unhappy I was with DP at the time. I didn't really acknowledge it to myself - even though I've had this horrible feeling in my gut for a long time - way before OM came along. I haven't made any clear cut decisions in my head yet. Because i haven't talked any of this through with anyone in RL yet other than the counsellor (when I've been there alone). And really, I need to be clearer to DP about exactly what is going on in my head. But at the same time I don't want him to totally freak out and for it to bring things to a head prematurely. I just feel so bloody sad that I'm thinking this way. And angry at him for not listening to me or taking me seriously for 8 years. It feels like it's too late now. If it weren't for the kids, I'm sure I would have left already. But of course they change everything. And the fact is I still love him; but I look at the future and feel suffocated at the thought of staying together. I still hope the counselling might help me turn a corner, and that perhaps I'll be thinking differently in a month or two...

ilmt, after your affair - when you examined why you had done it, did you ever think it was because you and your DH just weren't making each other happy? Or did you always know it was something else, something missing in you?

Sorry for firing questions at you. In your own time, of course...!

ILMT said:

"I think that the episode with OM has brought a lot of things in focus for you - you've given up some of your dreams and ambitions to have a relationship and family with someone who won't commit."

And that is the real essence of it, I think.

I do applaud your maturity in dealing with this situation, I really do.

I don't have kids ( so why am I am Mumsnet? Am I even allowed? [cinfused] but persuaded my exh to marry me as I felt this would demonstrate to the world his commitment, and also, somehow, magically make me feel more rooted and secure.

All it did was underline all the ways in which we both fell short. He was completely incapable of giving me the emotional support I felt I wanted and deserved; he just couldn't handle the give and take of responsibility between adult partners.

I ended up having a 'transitional' affair, the fallout from which was the final straw. I feel I acted in a very cowardly way and really admire you for behaving differently. It can be so easy at times to close your eyes and jump.

And Jeesus I'm with you on the m/cdinner parties. Went through all that with my previous partners - from whom exh was markedly and refreshingly different - and it still went wrong.

One more thing - I'd think very carefully before broaching issue of OM with DP and discuss this in depth with your counsellor...

bellamagnificat - thanks for your post. I think you're the first poster to say I've acted with "maturity"! I wish. Are you with anyone now?

The irony is, having wanted my DP to marry me for so many years - if he asked me now, I just couldn't say yes. Something has been lost. It's so bloody sad. I feel like I'm in a kind of limbo. I think I have to mentally say to myself that for the next 6 months (or more?), I'm just really going to try and make this/us work - do everything I can to give us one last chance; rather than keep dwelling on my desire to tell him I want us to spend some time apart - because I fear that would be the beginning of the end. The trouble is, it's hard to push other emotions to one side. I haven't told anyone in RL about these feelings I'm having. So it's a really lonely place to be. Thank god for mumsnet.

Hi everyone, happy new year!

ILMT, it's good to hear how you and your mother are doing, and as usual your words are wise and spot-on.

Mabel, thanks for updating - I often think about you and wonder how you are doing. I hope today is a GOOD day.

It seems to me that you are grieving at the moment, and grief doesn't work in a steady, uniform way. You will have good and bad days. It's an exhausting emotion.

Perhaps your grief is not only for the end of your friendship with OM, but also for the reality of the situation you are now facing?

As ILMT says, it has been clear from reading your posts over the last few months that your relationship with your DP has not been what you want and need for a long time.

I can completely understand why this would make you feel so terrified and panic-stricken. When you mentioned the pension conversation and how it made you feel, I thought that it was a sign that you are looking the situation in the eye, so to speak.

Of course your heart was racing, of course you felt as if you were having a panic attack. You were confronting the absolute heart of the problem - it is THE thing you need to face, and it's therefore the most scary. Where before you turned your attention to OM, now you are facing the things you need to address with DP. I think THAT is why you felt so frightened - because you were so close to the bone, to the rawness, if you know what I mean.

As far as the savings/pensions/finances side of things goes, I can understand that it must be a frightening situation to face. But lots and lots of people come through the same thing ok, and as ILMT says, MN is a source of great advice and info on that score. There is help and support available. In very simple terms, if it came down to money versus happiness, there'd be no contest, right? I know it's not as black and white as that, of course.

You say: 'Right now it is convincing me that my happiness lies outside of this relationship - but apparently it can get worse before it gets better? Is that right?'

I think it's possible for things to get better, sure. But I think that in your situation, that would require a change of attitude and behaviour from your DP, and you haven't said anything that indicates he is even conscious of this.

The best advice I can offer is to trust your instincts. I think you know yourself very well and are good at self-regulating. (You also have a good sense of humour, which can often be a saving grace during hard times!)

I don't often go to dinner parties - but I can sympathise with your feelings about the middle-class-ness of it all. In those kind of situations I always get this overwhelming sense of being on the outskirts. It's a really strange feeling, and not one that everyone shares, but luckily my DP is the same as me.

Most of the time I find it amusing rather than feeling stifled - for example - we were out with a group of people in a pub restaurant a while back for a birthday. The man whose birthday it was is DP's friend, but we didn't know any of the others (all couples). It turned out that they were all parents (unlike us), and all had the same type of lifestyle - man working, woman at home with the children.

Don't get me wrong - they were very nice and we all chatted away happily, but there was one point where the conversation turned to kids and schools and houses and money and horses (country dweller) and cars etc, and suddenly I had that 'outskirts' feeling, because I knew that my life would never be like theirs. It felt almost like watching a programme on TV.

Anyway, DP looked at me across the table and just twinkled his eyes at me, and I knew he was feeling the same - just glimpsing another way of life for the evening. I hope I'm explaining this adequately - I don't want it to come across like we were judging or being nasty. It was just a moment of recognition - 'here is a lifestyle completely different from ours' kind of thing.

But going back to what you were saying - I don't know how I would feel if I were inside that world because it was my DP's world. But I can imagine it's perfectly possible that I would feel exactly how you describe - wanting to run screaming!

It sounds as if you are saying that normality isn't 'normal' for you any more. Do you like poetry? Know any Keats? 'I had a dove'?

I hope that you will start a new thread and let us know how you are getting on. But if you don't want to start a thread, and yet you feel like a 'chat', please feel free to message me.

Firstly, amen to everything that WW said. You are now facing the reality of the situation with DP and obviously you are scared. And, as WW says for things to get better between you and DP would require him to change his attitude and behaviour - and even if he promised to do that would you trust him to be able to change that much? And would you really want him to? I suspect not.

Don't beat yourself up too much for grieving over OM. It seems to me that he was a symptom, not a cause of the situation that you now find yourself in.

To answer your questions - my youngest DC was 7 when I went back to work (same career as before I had the DC), part-time at first. As the kids got more independent I was able to increase my hours to the point where I am now part of a management team and working full-time.

WRT my affair - yes I did think at first that it was maybe because DH and I weren't making each other happy (because that's the first and most obvious thing to think, isn't it?) But I knew that wasn't true. DH does my head in sometimes (I think I've mentioned the parent/child roles we sometimes adopt with each other). But I knew that I loved him, and he me, and intimacy between us wasn't a problem, even during my affair. I wasted a lot of time and energy grieving for OM and trying to work out what was wrong with my marriage, and then scared myself by almost getting involved with another man. That's when I knew that the problem was all about ME and that's when I sought help from a counsellor. Obviously we talked about my relationship with DH but she then moved on to other areas in my life, and that's when I discovered that was my relationship with myself that was wrong. I think I've detailed my lack of self-esteem, selfishness and sense of entitlement upthread, so won't bang on about them again. There were lots of contributing factors - empty-nest and at the same time having more freedom with the DC away from home and being back in full-time work. I didn't use that freedom wisely and in trying to rediscover myself after so many years of being 'X's mum' I ignored the fundamental beliefs and values that I try to live my life by. This thread really isn't about infidelity any more, but I can't begin to describe how what I did has rocked my sense of self to its very foundations. If that sounds melodramatic then I apologise.

I think BellaMagnificat is right in that you are approaching your own situation in a very mature way. You are not putting your head in the sand, but are facing up to the difficult decisions that you have to make. As WW said, if you want a private chat then please PM me if you'd rather not talk on the thread.

Bella - you are very welcome on MN - you don't have to be a parent to make a very valid and helpful contribution on here.

Mabel, hello again. I think WW is right, you are grieving, and that isn't a linear process at all.

MY OM was a physical rather than an emotional affair. This may sound hypocritical but despite everything I still loved exh at the separation and I experienced a lot of anguish and raw grief when he moved out, and again when the house was sold. All the practicalities I ahd to do alone as he was waiting for surgery at the time so couldn't lift anything. Although I knew the relationship was dead, I think we still grieve for what we never had, or what we once did, but is now lost.

I've been on my own now for nearly a year and I love it. Am not interested in another relationship at all. Sold previous house, set up on my own in the same lovely little town, just in a more conveneint location, and not too far from ex which is handy for the canine joint custody arrangement, but far enough to give us both privacy.

Although on the surface we are affable with each other, he is still incredibly angry. I am not yet detached, and still care for him, but he uses every opportunity to kick me when I'm down. I need to distance myself and have learned a lot from other women's threads on here about just that, over the last few days.

It was the best thing for both of us - I just wish I had been honest and brave at the time. I had loads of therapy too and was lucky enough to find a very gifted and experienced person after several appalling false starts. I would recommend it to anyone going through something similar.

God - didn't want to make your thread all about me. Sorry.