Is it possible to have affair but stay happily married/attached? Pls be honest.

[MabelMay]

Hello All

I really need your honesty and experiences/opinions.
Without going into too much detail as I do wish to remain as anonymous as possible obviously, I have recently found myself falling for someone other than my DP. We have had our problems in the past, DP and I, but we have two lovely little kids together and I've never really been distracted by another man since being with him (8 years). Until now. Recently, after some months of feeling unbelievably attracted to this person, I've found out he feels exactly the same. I feel like I'm on the precipice of something. I have such strong feelings for this guy and have not felt this happy in years. I really want it to happen and yet I know you'll all think me stupid/selfish/naive/etc. But please tell me: Have any of you ever managed to have a brief fling/affair without it destroying your other relationship? Or know of anyone who has? Is it crazy to even think this can happen? I say brief because he is leaving the country for good at the end of the year... am I mad?

ps. i wouldn't have acknowledge that, re my self-esteem, a month or two ago. MMx

Morning Mabel, how are you this morning? Sorry not to have been around last night.

I agree with what ilmz said about it being significant that you feeling attracted to someone else at the same time as your DP was pulling his six-monthly stunt.

As you said in your PS, you are feeling able to be more honest about your own emotions and I think that is a really positive thing.

I think that the fact that the OM is no longer on the scene as a 'possibility' means that you are actually more free to be so insightful. Before, your feelings about DP and your feelings about OM were getting interwoven so that there were things it was probably hard to see and identify so clearly.

I think that you are right that part of the reason you feel attracted to others is about what you are lacking from your DP.

I wonder if another part of it could be that thinking about an OM is fairly all-consuming. It means that there isn't as much thought-space for you to focus on other things. Shining a clear light on the issues with your DP must be incredibly daunting.

Facing up to the sense that your self-esteem is at a low ebb, feeling as if you are not yourself - it's very hard. Maybe in a way your attraction to others is an unconscious way of trying to protect yourself from the pain of dealing with the situation with DP, and all that might entail.

Allowing yourself to be distracted from the main issue - your relationship with DP - is like sticking your fingers in your ears and closing your eyes. It's completely understandable and rational to want to avoid pain, but you won't avoid it this way. You will draw it out - make it last longer.

You asked how you are supposed to sort anything out with DP when he is away all the time. I think that you have to realise it's not YOUR responsibility to answer that question.

He is the one who decides when and if he goes off for work - you don't control that. Of course work is important, but my advice would be to put it to him - there are problems that need to be addressed if your relationship is going to work. Is he willing to put in the effort?

Ask HIM to take some responsibility for making it work.

Hi Mabel. Hope you are feeling better today.

WW is right - you mustn't allow yourself to be distracted from the main issue - your relationship with DP. And she is also right about DP taking some responsibility for making your relationship work. Onandup posted on Tuesday 19th Oct about you doing the work for both of you in the relationship, and that's how it looks to me, too.

I think you need to lay it on the line to DP how much his six-monthly rants are hurting you, and how he needs to stop threatening to walk away (which he obviously has no intention of doing) when he is challenged about his behaviour, and actually go and see someone to get his shit sorted out.

Maybe you should think about writing him a letter telling him about how you feel right now. Then he can take it away and digest it, rather than give his instant reaction of "oh well that's it then, let's split up."

WWIFN has posted some excellent advice on a thread called "How long does it take?" (sorry, can't link it!) about affairs and, if you pick through her posts, I think you may recognise some of the behaviours in your own relationship (bear in mind that she is talking to a betrayed wife - just reverse the roles and I think you'll see what I'm getting at.)

Hi Mabel,
I just wanted to say sorry you were feeling so bad on Monday - hopefully things are looking a bit better now? I read your post minutes after you'd written it and was going to write something, but half way through my DD (12 years old) started peering over my shoulder, so I had to quickly shut down!

Anyway, all I was going to say was, although I haven't got any words of wisdom and sensible advice like WW and ILMZ, that I know exactly how you feel and you shouldn't feel too bad about nearly snogging someone. (At least you didn't do it!) But I think you are trying to recapture that fantastic feeling you had at the beginning of the affair that you nearly had, do you agree? It is the best feeling ever to feel attractive, sexy, confident etc but as you well know it doesn't last, does it? Now I am beginning to realize this too. I think years of being with someone who is quite controlling can seriously undermine your self esteem and you begin to doubt yourself. So when someone else shows an interest, it is incredibly flattering and a real confidence booster.

Sorry this isn't very helpful or insightful but I'm in a rush and I think sometimes it is nice to know that someone has read what you've written and knows how you are feeling too. Hope your week gets better as it goes along!

I'm new to this thread but something about the whole situation has really struck me so I hope you don't mind me throwing in my 2p worth. I keep turning over in my mind that story of your DP lagging further and further behind his mother and sister as a child, until finally she'd notice he was gone and come back to fetch him.

In effect, he's told you precisely the terms of the game he plays with you. And it is a game. When he is feeling distant from you (metaphorically, lagging behind) he does something to bring that distance sharply to your attention. In this case, that means making you feel as miserable and insecure as he clearly does.

I'm not trying to excuse his behaviour, or the pain it is clearly causing you, but I've found myself speculating what other endings your DP's story might have. For example: what if the little boy in the story called out to his mother, instead of playing the abandonment game? Perhaps she'd wait until he caught up. Or perhaps she wouldn't hear, or even laugh at the little boy.

And if your DP is anticipating, however unconsciously, that the women (mother, sister, and by extension in emotional terms you) in the story wouldn't pay any attention, or would laugh at the little boy for not keeping up, then right there you have the emotional logic that is encouraging your DP to torture you like this.

If he is afraid of telling you when he needs extra love and attention (metaphorically, needs you to notice his needs and wait for him to catch up), for fear that you will mock, undermine or ignore him (and something you posted about his mother gives me the impression that this might be what he was used to as a child) then it's no wonder he's developed this messed-up strategy instead. By criticising you and the relationship, and/or threatening to leave, he forces you to stop doing whatever you're doing and focus entirely on him, emphasising the value of the relationship and your love for him.

I don't blame you for feeling personally undermined, hurt, miserable, angry and resentful at being manipulated like this. This is a vicious cycle, that originates in his childhood experiences. You had nothing to do with its origin, and it's bitterly unjust that it should be you - and by extension your kids - on the receiving end.

The saddest thing about deep-buried childhood fears is that so often they end up creating the situation they fear most. By manipulating you into showing exaggerated affection, by threatening to end the relationship, he's driving you away - so much so that as you've described you nearly started an affair. If you'd done it, you'd have come that much closer to reproducing his childhood family situation, and would probably have escalated the whole dynamic to an even more painful level. Poor you. And poor him. It sounds as though he can be a dick sometimes, but by the looks of it his upbringing has ill-prepared him for being anything else. The fact that in spite of a poor start like this he is loving and attentive most of the time truly does show that he's doing his best, against pretty tough odds.

But that doesn't mean it's okay for the situation to carry on as is. As I see it, you have two options. You could call his bluff, and leave - either for a short period, or for good. Or you could try and find a way of helping him to see that perhaps asking you nicely for love and care might result in him getting it, and that perhaps he doesn't need to manipulate you in this painful, roundabout and destructive way into showing him that you love and value him.

A bit of context to all this, so it sounds less like naff pop psychology. My DP went through a severe nervous breakdown about 2 years ago, during which he was at times foul to me - truly foul - in ways that reproduced aspects of his very difficult childhood. It wasn't until my mother - whose childhood resembled his in some ways - pointed out where it was coming from that I was able to address it in those terms and to ask him, gently, whether he wanted a family that grew up with the same experience as he had. That pulled him up short. We've come a long way since then. He still has fears and insecurities that sometimes drive him to play come-here-no-go-away-no-come-here games, sometimes with strategies that sound very much like those your DP uses.

In my case, I both called his bluff and didn't. This summer, the come-here-no-go-away got really difficult, and I moved out into a place of my own. We're still a couple, and spend the bulk of the week together either at my place or his, but it's very clear that it's his place and my place. And perversely, it's worked. It's shifted the balance of power enormously, such that I no longer feel at a disadvantage: I was living in his house before, which always made me feel as though I couldn't yell the roof down or he'd chuck me out...it sounds sometimes from what you say that you have fears maybe a bit like that.

That said, I'm in a different situation to you. For one thing, DP and I don't have children yet (we want kids, but I've held off so far in large part because of the breakdown, and the fallout from it). So I have more room to manoeuvre than you do, with two under-fives to take care of. So I don't know if any of this is useful. But I just wanted to share something from my experience of living with a kind, adoring, wonderful, loving but sometimes unhappily complicated man, and how I've coped with it so far. I hope it works out for you. x

pottonista thank you so much for your post. It was really interesting to read and there are a lot of parallels with my own situation. Huge thanks for your thoughts. Yes, my DP is a complicated man - part of his initial appeal - and it can be really hard sometimes.

You know what? If we didn't have kids I think I'd definitely have tried something similar to your "my place"/"his place".

Anyway, we're about to start couples therapy.

WW and ILMT - thanks, I read everything and have taken it all on board.

Brief update: I feel like I have a really, really long way to go in terms of feeling happy in myself and in terms of sorting out the main stumbling blocks in my relationship with my DP.
I told him I thought he should have individual counselling. He took it on board - but whether or not he'll take the next step I don't know. I can't make him! And hopefully the couples therapy will throw up a lot of his own issues anyway.

I still think of the OM every day. But I don't have to stop myself sending that text or that email. I now know I can go through a day without needing to contact him.

My own individual counselling is going okay I think... The word that keeps coming up is "escape". I use it constantly. And "trapped". Madame Bovary, anyone??

I have to find a way to marry the life that I have with my other needs/wishes. Without turning into a selfish cow.

I have to run off - there was more i wanted to say to you individually but anyway that's everything in brief. As always, some good days, some bad.

MMx

It's good to hear how you're doing, Mabel - thanks for updating. You sound further forward - certainly calmer in your emotions about the OM. It takes a long time and a lot of upset to get to the point you have - from an outside perspective you have already achieved a great deal, whether or not it seems that way to you.

And it sounds as if the counselling is helping. Are you feeling any more confident in the counsellor and her approach?

I can appreciate that it must seem as if there is a long way to go. But you have taken the first steps along the path, and that's the only way to reach the other end of it.

I am so glad to hear you saying the things you have said here - you sound so much clearer, somehow. I think it's your saying that you can't make your DP take the next step.

What is happening in terms of couple counselling?

I don't think there is any danger of you turning into a selfish cow, Mabel. You are amazing. Do keep posting and letting us know how you are, when you feel like it.

Hope you and DS have thoroughly recovered from the lurgy?

First of all, wasn't sure where to post this message - as a couple of other affair or OM threads have been up recently, but then again I didn't want to hijack. It's been really interesting reading the experiences of others - and seeing the feedback they're getting...
Also, ilovemyteddy thanks for the ((hugs)) on the other thread. I meant to hug back but don't think I ever did! Anyway, ((hugs))!

I read back my last post and wordweaver's encouraging words thereafter and want to weep and hold my head in shame...

I wasn't even sure if I should post but I feel like I owe ilmt and ww nothing if not my total honesty:

I contacted the OM again.

It's so weird when I look back on my motivations now - I was feeling very unemotional about him and - it's hard to explain - but this weekend there was a "big event" that in earlier days would have had us texting and in touch with each other [we both share a passionate love of a certain hobby]. I thought - you know what? I can send this friendly, unmeaningful text because it would feel weird not to mention it... and to show there are no hard feelings.

Was I kidding myself? I don't know. Consciously I really thought that's what it was about. So I texted OM on saturday. He texted back almost immediately. Again, it was friendly but nothing more. And so it went for two or three more texts.

But then I got a text from OM yesterday evening taking things to a slightly different level - his message was long but along the lines of 'i'm trying not to think about you but i can't stop and i want to see you again'...
And so here I am. My heart tied up in knots because I want so very much to see him again but at the same time can't bear to go back to square one.

I'm really sorry I've let you and myself down. I look back on wordweaver above saying "you are amazing". God, sorry. Amazingly crap, yes.

Of course you can despair of me. Because if I'm totally honest about it, even though I know what I should do is tell OM "we mustn't see each other" I'm pretty sure I'm not going to. I'm not certain what's going to happen. I want to see him again and speak to him. I think I believe this can happen without us taking it any further. There were so many unanswered questions from our last, final meeting... that I want to comfort myself with getting some answers. But at the same time, I know this is wrong. I know it's sending me back to where I was a month ago. I know everything that is wrong about what I'm thinking in my mind.
But I can't tell you how over the moon I was when I read the text last night, - all of a sudden, I'm "happy" again. I know this is nonsense of course - it's those old feelings coming back. But I just want to be totally frank with you about what is going on in my head.

I keep thinking about OM leaving the country and how much I'll regret not seeing him again and missing the chance to get some answers and explain stuff to him too. But I know that by seeing him again it will make the pain of him leaving even worse.

There's not much any of you can say to the above is there, other than you silly, silly woman Mabel.

we don't share a "hobby" really, it's a bit bigger than that - an activity... Just to clarify. MM.

Also, bigbadsecret thanks for your post last week that I never acknowledged but really did appreciate. As you say, it's nice just to know you've been 'listened to' sometimes, especially when you're feeling a bit down. I hope you are coping okay in moving forward from the OM. I'm afraid as you can see I have regressed. I hope you're stronger than I am.

Don't beat yourself up.

I've been there and done that more times than I care to remember. My affair went on for about a year, and in that time I must have tried to break contact about six or seven times, only to crack after a few weeks. I think three weeks was the record.

I remember the feeling of euphoria when me and my OM were back in contact...my God, to feel that happy again! It's a rush, isn't it? I literally would be walking on air.

Only thing is, the euphoria doesn't last... and it leads to great pain. The way I was living then I can only compare to having a drug habit. I knew it was doing serious long term damage (and oh my God, does the fallout continue - had weekend from Hell) but it seemed worth it for the short-term gain.

In the end I had to tell my husband. I knew it was the only way I could bring the relationship with the OM into the real world and see it for what it was.

I'm not saying it's easy now. It's about six months since I last had contact with my OM, and I still long to tell him stuff. Bloody hell, I remember crying in the supermarket fairly recently because I saw something in a newspaper that we'd have laughed about together.

The difference is that dh and I have worked so hard to come through our problems that to contact OM would set us back so far, and would probably mean the end of my marriage. When I think of it like that, it's not so tempting.

Maybe what I'm saying is you will only set yourself free by talking to your dh about this?

Dearest Mabel - the only person you are letting down is yourself (plus of course DP and DC)if you continue to contact/meet up with OM. It really is that simple.

I think you probably contacted him because a) you were feeling stronger and thought you could cope with some contact and b) just to see if he was still interested, so that you could have another ego-boost.

But by contacting him you have gone back to square one. Why are you doing this to yourself? If there are issues with your relationship and problems in your life then you need to put your energies into getting them sorted out, rather than involving a third person who, let's face it, whatever he SAYS, is leaving the country and is looking for a bit of no-strings sex before he goes.

And if you don't believe me then look at his actions over the weekend - you text about shared interest; he replies in a friendly manner and then when you keep responding he turns it up a notch and starts with the "I can't stop thinking about you" bollocks. And it is bollocks, Mabel. If he had any respect for you he would not have replied; he would not have turned a friendly conversation into a sexual one: he would not want to get his leg over with a woman in a relationship with children. Look at his actions, don't listen to his words.

onandup - hi - thanks for your message. I remember how helpful it was reading your posts a few weeks back.

You are right, I'm sure, that telling my DP would reveal my "thing" with the OM for what it is (altho' I"m not entirely sure what that is myself right now - at the moment I'm back believing myself to have genuine feelings of love for him).

However, the difference in my situation I suppose is that the OM is leaving the country in two months. So I know at some point this is all going to have to stop anyway isn't it? So, given that there is the very real possibility that telling the DP might end our relationship entirely, what is the point?

Honesty, I suppose!
The thing is, I have such mixed up feelings anyway about my relationship with my DP and whether or not I think we should stay together that I don't want to mix up the two things.

In short, I know I'm not going to tell my DP about this. For starters, it may be that nothing will happen with the OM - that we just talk over everything. I don't know.

You're right. It's like a drug.

i know, ilmt, i know.

bollocks.

i oversimplified the text progression and what he said (which was actually a bit more nuanced and sensitive than what I wrote) - but it amounts to the same thing i suppose.

i like to think it's not as shallow as him simply wanting no-strings sex. but perhaps i'm supremely naive. I think he's' a genuinely decent guy.

I'm doing this to myself because I really, really like him and I can't think straight and rationally and I have big doubts about DP and me.

But, also, like I said, part of me just wants to have the conversation we never had before.

Don't worry. I won't keep posting when I start feeling heartbroken again. I'll just re-read all the previous messages of support...

Who knows. Maybe I won't feel heartbroken again. Maybe we'll just manage to close things out without any pain.

Thanks for your tough love, ilmt!

You probably do love him, MM

I loved my OM, very much indeed. A part of me still does.

But the love should never have been nurtured when we were both married. Wrong place, wrong time, bad choices.

When I look back, I see what an absolute twat my OM was. Seriously, my life is pretty much wrecked, and although I have no-one to blame but myself, with the benefit of hindsight I wish I'd kept my dignity and put doing the right thing before feeling temporarily good.

Affairs are a short-term solution to a long-term problem. Please don't put your energy into something that is worth nothing. Put it into sorting out your relationship with your dp.

Please, please don't be me

I agree with onandup. Don't beat yourself up. It won't help you, or him, or your DP. Focusing your thoughts and energy on feeling guilty will divert them from where they are really needed.

Mabel, many of us who have posted on this thread have been in similar situations to you. Like onandup, I've been there - had that ecstatic rush of feelings when someone has made contact who you thought you might never hear from again. So I am not going to call you names. And I don't think you should be calling yourself names either.

These feelings, urges to contact him, feelings of pain are to be expected. They are part of the script, the pattern - so you need to draw on some other source of strength at those times. A source of strength that isn't emotional.

By sending you that text yesterday, OM showed that he is not willing/strong enough to help you to maintain the no-contact plan. He is not a source of strength for you in this respect.

I'm not apportioning blame here - it isn't about blame. The fact that you texted first is irrelevant for this point. He has shown again and again that he is not going to help you to maintain no contact.

He is not on the side of making your life easier.

He is not on the side of you saving your relationship with DP.

Again, I reiterate, I am not making any judgements about OM - I am simply trying to state the facts.

You said that you can't bear to go back to square one by seeing him again. But actually square one is where you are anyway - you are going to have to start the whole process of no contact again. Seeing him again won't take you back to square one. It'll take you somewhere new and potentially very dangerous indeed. It won't be like it has been before. There is a whole new layer of emotion and pressure on meeting up now.

You ARE amazing, Mabel. I am not going to take it back. I think you have questioned yourself and tried and battled really really hard, and you have had insights into yourself and your relationship with DP that have really made you think. I think you have a great capacity for honesty with yourself, and I think that is what you have to draw on now.

Forget about relying on your feelings or taking them into account with regard to OM. Your feelings are all over the place and they will not guide you well. Trust in your own personal sense of right and wrong. Put your back up against that. Don't even consult your feelings.

What is the RIGHT thing to do?

You said "There were so many unanswered questions from our last, final meeting...I want to comfort myself with getting some answers." You are not seeing objectively right now, but please listen to all the people on here who have been there too.

There will NEVER be a point where you can have a final meeting with him, get all your questions answered, shake hands and say goodbye and feel that you have drawn a clean line under it. It will not happen. Each new meeting will throw up more questions, worries, thoughts.

And even if by some miracle you were able to shake hands and say goodbye and feel at peace, the following day or week or month there would be a story in the news that you wanted to share with him, or some event that you knew he would be watching. And you would have the urge to call him or text him, and it would all start again.

You know from reading MN that an emotional affair is often as powerful and damaging as a physical one. Therefore, the idea that you can meet him again without taking it further is an oxymoron. Just by meeting him again, you ARE taking the emotional affair further.

Just try to focus on what you think (not feel) is the right thing to do. And then do it.

You've discussed before how this is really inextricably linked to your relationship with DP and his behaviour. That is still the issue that needs attention and work.

Right now, you are standing at a crossroads. If you 100% want to give your relationship with DP your best shot, you will not meet up or make contact with OM again. Easier said than done of course, but it's a fairly straightforward conclusion.

If actually your feelings about OM come first, then listen to what you are telling yourself. It would suggest to me that your real message is that you are not prepared to battle to save things with DP any more. Having heard what you have been through with him, I would understand that. But he would deserve to be told, so that you could both start to build new lives.

You are your own support - you are the person you have to rely on to take you forward to a happier way of life. So listen to that woman. Be honest with her. And do what is best for her (and those she loves, of course).

Sending you lots of support and encouragement. Keep posting if it helps. We are here and listening and ready to order you to sit on your hands and stop texting him!

Great post, wordweaver.

P.S. I was typing all the above while all the later posts were appearing, so I have only just read them. As usual, ILMT puts everything far more effectively and succinctly than my ramblings! But I hope it is some help to see that everyone is rallying round. Please do keep posting.

wordweaver you're brilliant. I'm in tears now because there are so many truths that are painful to admit in what you've written [not sobs, just wet eyes]. And also because I'm starting to worry that I don't want to save my relationship with my DP enough. When I hear people talk about their future lives with their partners I find myself realising I've not been thinking that way about my DP recently. Instead I find myself wondering how tough it will be to be a single mum to my two DCs but also a little bit excited about the independence it will give me (to rediscover myself and what I really want to do, NOT, honestly NOT to be with another man)... But we've not even started the therapy yet so I'm hoping this is just a symptom of something that we can fix.
you are right about everything, i think.

i'm stopping work early - i need to have a shower and sort out my eyes.
i'll be totally honest with you all here on MN on what happens next.

I think sometimes it does help to crystallise our understanding of our own feelings when we listen to what others say about their relationships, as you say.

Do you have a date set for couples counselling?

Enjoy your shower. Cry if you need to. I think tears can be helpful and useful - they show when the heart of the issue has been touched.

Sweetheart, please don't stop posting because I was a little tough on you. You can tell by the flurry of posts that you've had that there are people on here who genuinely care about you. But because we care we are going to tell it how it is - that's kind of the beauty of anonymous internet forums - we can tell you the truth as we see it.

Wordweaver you may have been less succinct than me, but that was a fantastic post. It seems like we are playing good cop/bad cop here but really, Mabel we all want to save you from 'being us' as Onandup so cleverly put it.

There's a post on Bee's thread by justnotintome - near the end of the thread - which is a totally accurate and heartrending account of what happened to her, me, WW, Onandup and countless other women who decided to have affairs. Please read it and think about it - as WW says - think, don't feel.

Please keep posting. xx

oh thanks ilmt - sorry, I didn't mean to imply that your post had made me think twice about posting on here. I will definitely be back to post! I meant that I won't come back here sobbing if I decide to see OM again and he breaks my heart... but hopefully I'll be stronger than that. I'm rushing but no doubt I'll be back.

I read that post on Bee's thread. Yes, heartrending as you say and very sobering.

MMx

Oh god please tell me to sit on my hands! I've written about 20 "draft" texts to OM so far. I can't stop thinking about him and re-reading our weekend texts. I haven't pressed send yet though so that's something, right?

Would it be so awful to meet him for a coffee?

I know I'm in the midst of a kind of madness.

I need a metaphorical mumsnet slap around the face!

Please slap this hysterical woman.

There is no question in my mind that if DP and I didn't have young kids together, I would have left my DP 6 months ago - and I would definitely have left him for his OM. Not necessarily to be with the OM but because of the fact that I had fallen so hard for someone else, ergo I don't love my DP enough any more, there's been too much damage done etc etc...

Now, in light of the above, given that we DO have children together, should I therefore do absolutely everything I can to rescue this relationship (with DP)...?

We have our first couples counselling session booked for this Friday.

I'm writing this to stop me texting OM.

Now I'm going to go and grab a sandwich, and I wont' be taking my phone with me...

Help me, help me.

Mabel, I've not read all of your thread, but I've certainly read pieces of it. If you don't mind me saying, I wouldn't slap you, but I do think you're being a little self-centred here.

Have you got some hobbies you can focus on while you try and put the OM to the back of your mind? Apologies for saying this, and I suspect you know this, but you seem to be acting like a parody of a love-struck teenager