🦈 Archers thread #137: See left - have they jumped it? Discuss The Caseys - sorry, The Archers - here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think Steph Casey is a wonderful addition to the programme, or similar odd views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/4197199--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-6-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Too dispirited to add much else. Have we reached a new low?

I suppose the Archer twins will be born before we need a new thread. 👶👶
Any thoughts on names? Patrick and Antonia were suggested before - inspired! Peggy has to be a strong contender.

Over to you!

Can't say I agree with you. I'd say Lachlan with a ch. I'd say Rhys-J with the welsh Rhys not Rees. I'd say Rooput Muhdock but scottish neighbour Murdoch is Murrdoch. I call scottish Mark Mark , and NZer Ben Ben, not Marrk and Bin.

I think we just have to agree to disagree on it.
They only picked Seren to shove in a naff SL about starry stained glass.

I’m not sure my husband physically CAN say Lachlan with a ch!

I think perhaps the point of disagreement here is that you see Seren as an unusual Welsh name that few English people have heard of and so you think that they should look to pronounce it exactly as if they were having a conversation in Welsh about a star. However I’ve come across the name more than once as a name given to a non-Welsh speaker who calls herself “Serrun” so to my mind it already has an anglicisation that Tom could use. TBH the Welsh pronounciation even sounds a bit much when Natasha says it when speaking English but she probably couldn’t make her mouth say it any other way as it is a word in her language.

I’m pretty sure I’ve heard Nick Clegg talking about his sons without affecting a Spanish accent when saying their names.

He says them phonetically not as an english person would. I believe that they speak Spanish at home. He's only half english and speaks several languages.
It would be weird if he anglicised the names, they're his children.

His other half is Dutch though so that’s a bit of a red herring. I wonder how his Dutch Mum pronounces/d his name. I speak Spanish. I say “Antonio” differently depending on whether I am speaking Spanish or Scottish-accented English.

As I said, my FIL pronounces his daughter’s name the English way when speaking English and the Norwegian way when speaking Norwegian. She doesn’t speak Norwegian herself, maybe that is a factor. I guess that Seren and Nova will be raised bilingual, the next thing we’ll have on air is a discussion about whether Tom n’ Tash should do OPOL (one-parent-one-language). There’s no right or wrong way to do it.

The point of disagreement is that you are saying that the Tom actor is affecting a welsh accent when saying his child's name. I can't hear it. He, to me, pronounces it perfectly. His wife says the name in the same way as she'd say the welsh word. If I thought he was taking the p*ss you'd know about it. (cf. Caitlin's anglicisation of Gwilym)

I'm aware that Seren is in use as a name outside Wales and that people say it as Serrun but that's them, and that's how they choose to say it.
Seren is very popular in Wales right now, and they mainly say SERR-enn.

Do you have a problem how with a family where one parent is a Welsh-speaker chooses to pronounce their child's name? Do you look down on the welsh or something, because that's what it seems like to me.

I think that the fictional character Tom Archer sounds like he is trying too hard with the way he pronounces it. I imagine that it is a conscious device by the director to emphasise the degree of control/influence that Natasha has over him, or at best a puppyish tendency to try to please her (cf the Hiraeth tattoo). I would think exactly the same if she were Polish and he was affecting a Polish accent, or Brazilian and he was trying to sound Portuguese. The fact that he gets it bang on is kind of irrelevant.

I’m not sure how he can’t be putting in a Welsh accent though when you say that he gets the pronounciation exactly as Natasha would say it? When I say “affecting” I mean “using”, not imitating badly.

He doesn't say it exactly like Natasha says it. She has a strong regional accent. If I wanted to say it exactly like Natasha, I'd need to attempt her accent.

As for Sir Nick - www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b00vhdmb (about 6
40 seconds in). Not re-listened to the rest of it but am enjoying it.

Don't think you have a clegg to stand on.

minutes not seconds

Fair enough- I was looking for a clip myself but so many were him talking about Antonio’s cancer, I couldn’t bear to trivialise listening to them for this purpose! He also says “Chopin” in a manner reminiscent of Lynda Snell!

Of course unlike Tom/Welsh, Nick actually speaks Spanish, perhaps it seems less affected for that reason.

Do you speak any other languages other than English, @HaveringWavering ?

Yes, I have a Cambridge degree in French and Spanish with Spanish linguistics and I also speak Brazilian Portuguese to business level having lived and worked there. Why do you ask?

Curiosity. You didn't answer my other question.
I find generally if someone's fluent, they speak a language in a natural way, so although they sound German or whatever, it doesn't sound like an accent, it sounds German.

If you met someone called Cruz, Luna, Paloma, Esmeralda, Leon, Maximo, Julio or Salvador, would you say the name in an anglicised way?

If I were talking to them in their native language I would pronounce the name as a speaker of that language would. If I were talking about those people to someone else, in English, I would say the names in an English sounding approximation of how they sound - not totally anglicised but not as Spanish or Portuguese -sounding as it would be in the original language.

Take my Brazilian colleague, Julio. If I am speaking to him in Portuguese it’s sort of zhULyo, (soft J, heavy stress on the U and the final io diphthong barely audible.) In English it’s more Zhoo-lee-o with clearer enunciation of the io and more even initial stress. But I would never say Jewelyo with the sort of J sound you’d hear in English in the name “Jack”, whereas a non- Portuguese speaker might say it like that.

What other question didn’t I answer? I did already mention earlier in our exchange that I spoke Spanish, before you asked.

Tom isn't known to speak any other languages is he?

Don't forget everyone else in Ambridge is using the correct Welsh pronunciation of Seren, no way would that happen in real life.
To my ear, Tom and Natasha both pronounce Seren the same. I guess I can't 'hear' Natashas regional accent.

To my ear, Tom and Natasha both pronounce Seren the same. I guess I can't 'hear' Natashas regional accent.
That's you though. How many times have I read that Alan and Harrison are indistinguishable?

IRL people will say an unfamilar name in different ways. Have we heard Lynda's version yet?

Is anyone else wondering how George is going to get nicotine into vapes, and I thought there was a law about tobacco products?

Minimammoth, come over to the current thread!

www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4609862-archers-thread-138-two-new-stars-on-the-ambridge-firmament-but-will-peggys-retirement-leave-a-black-hole-join-us-here-for-a-window-on-the-archers

IRL people will say an unfamilar name in different ways.

Yet on TA they all say Seren the same.

They don't to my big sensitive welsh ears, just like they don't all say Helen, Alastair, Brian, Xander, Keira, Ruairi, Jerlene, or even David and Alice the same way.

I would expect a bit of Saren, Sarin, Sairen, Serrun, Surenne type mispronunciations and corrections or 'ooh, that's a bit different', 'don't you mean Sarah/Sara?' type comments but they probably edited those out.

I can't help but think that it's a shame that Stella arrived first. Stella and Esther would be much nicer 'star' names even if a bit too similar for twins, if they wanted to have a stained glass window SL

I'm wondering if there'll be a shed explosion...

Breaking Brad?

@NewBootsAndRanty , there is a newer thread here