🦈 Archers thread #137: See left - have they jumped it? Discuss The Caseys - sorry, The Archers - here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think Steph Casey is a wonderful addition to the programme, or similar odd views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/4197199--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-6-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Too dispirited to add much else. Have we reached a new low?

I suppose the Archer twins will be born before we need a new thread. 👶👶
Any thoughts on names? Patrick and Antonia were suggested before - inspired! Peggy has to be a strong contender.

Over to you!

I quite enjoyed tonight's episode!
Wonder if Pat will be digging out her old hippy tie-dyed maxi skirt and beads for the festival?
And I do love Joy

Me too. Joy was great with Adil.
I was a bit disappointed that Pat didn't suggest Susan for the festival and then Susan could suggest Tracy as an employee for Summer Orchard

I think we'll learn more about Joy's back-story via Ardil, and vice versa

I enjoyed Ardil and Joy, Fag Ash was bearable, for once.

I'm bored rigid by the antics of Pinky and Perky. Gnasher's juice business sounds more and more implausible.

How old do we think Ardil is ?

When Joy was chatting away etc I suddenly thought she could be Joyce in Richard Osman Thursday Murder Club books in so much as everyone sees a little old(ish) lady and yet really she has a wholr backstory - wonder why Rochelle has never visited - is Rochelle real it has Joy invented a whole non existent daughter ?

Is ANYONE enjoying the twists and turns of Nova and Serin’s nappy changing/feeding pattern? Also Natasha’s endless comments about having no time to shower or get dressed? I don’t have children and largely find any references to the minutiae of new parenthood of pretty limited interest but may be for others it is nice to hear something so ordinary portrayed on the radio rather than glossed over.

Where did Joy appear from? I've completely forgotten so any back story appreciated.

The pronunciation of Seren is so odd. Considering that TA is set close to the Midlands it's nothing like how it would be said round here.

Wasn't the implication that Rochelle is a selfish cow who can't be bothered to visit? ISTR a past storyline when that became fairly clear.

The back story to Joy is that there is no back story. She turned up in one of the new builds talking incessantly about her daughter Rochelle and that's all we know about her, that she has a daughter.
The mystery as to why she claims to have a great relationship with a daughter she never sees and possibly moved a couple of hundred miles away from hasn't been explained and as presumably the SWs couldn't think of an explanation at the time I doubt we'll get one now.

I can't remember the backstory, but she moved into one of the new builds on the land Pat and Tony sold to developers.

@Hercisback Joy moved in next door to Kirsty and Phillip, can't remember what her stated reason was for the move. Rochelle could maybe be fictitious but I think the storyline will develop at some point. She's been useful in several storylines and has proved herself quite lovable.

@Hercisback , what's odd about it? It's a Welsh word, and Natasha is a Welsh speaker. Why would they give the baby a Welsh word as a name and say it in a West Midlands way?

@WhoppingBigBackside I didn't know that was the Welsh way to pronounce it . They need someone to pronounce it the Midlands way so Natasha can start a thread on MN about them.

Thanks for the Joy back story.

@Hercisback, I don't really understand why you make the point. I'd expect that people in Ambridge would not be familiar with it so would say it as they heard it.

How would someone with a W Mids accent say it? It's a fairly recent name, and Welsh is phonetic, so the correct pronunciation is SERR-enn.
It does get said as Serrun by non-Welsh speaker but that is as illogical as saying Gwen as Gwun, which AFAIK nobody does.
I was annoyed by the Gwillum, because they made a big deal about Katelyn speaking Welsh, but she anglicized her husband's name.

It's Tom's pronunciation that is annoying me, so ostentatiously Welsh.

I think we've speculated plenty of times about whether Rochelle actually exists. I think she probably does but there's a Secret Feud to which we'll eventually be privy when they run out of other ideas.

It must be a fun part of scriptwriting, leaving holes and mysteries around to fill in at leisure.

I liked Pat-asha's festival chat - good for Pat for volunteering and for Natasha for saying yes, I hope it's a success.

@CloseYourEyesAndSee , Tom says it correctly.

The Wenglish is grating, but at least they are saying Seren the right way. Welsh Pat's calling her friend Olwyn was appalling. Not sure why Natasha calls her mother Mam but her father 'Dad' not Dad

It would have been simpler to call her something like Ceri, then poor Tom would not be accused of saying it ostentatiously if he said Ceri without anglicising it, but if they's done that she wouldn't be another star for the highly plausible stained glass window.

I know
but as a parent of a child with a non English name I insisted on one I could pronounce without having to use a non English accent and sound like a pretentious knob - and one that English speakers could pronounce phonetically! Tom's pronunciation is cringe even if it is correct

I know it's the correct way to pronounce the name but every time Tom does it I imagine the BBC dialect coach standing behind him

Well how do you think he should say it? It's phonetic and it's Welsh, he says it correctly. Why on earth are you cringing at someone saying a Welsh word the right way?

Are you saying something along the lines of if Natasha was french and they'd named the nipper Fleur, Tom should say Fluh not Fleur?

I think we've speculated plenty of times about whether Rochelle actually exists I think she might be dead and Joy is in complete denial which is why she has inexplicably moved to Ambridge (so she can pretend she's still alive and no-one will question this).
The discussion of Welsh baby name pronunciation reminds me of the Sharon Horgan character in Catastrophe who names her baby Muireann (a name only she and her Irish family can pronounce).

Are you saying something along the lines of if Natasha was french and they'd named the nipper Fleur, Tom should say Fluh not Fleur? Very few English people pronounce Fleur exactly as a French person would. The fact is that unless you are a native speaker you are unlikely to have perfect pronunciation - you should have heard my DCs' school friends pronouncing Harry Potter (it took me a while to work out what they were talking about). Or think of the way the British pronounce Madam Tussauds or even the French capital. Lynda is laughed at for attempting a French accent for Les Soeurs Heureux for example. You have to let people have a go and accept they might not get it right. Sometimes a rough approximation is as good as you are going to get.

@WhoppingBigBackside I'm not meaning to cause offence or upset. It's quite a popular name for dogs and babies where I live so lots of people do say it. They pronounce it Seh-run without the emphasis on the SEH like the Welsh pronunciation.
I think it is that non Welsh speakers wouldn't normally pronounce the name using the Welsh pronunciation. Phonetically to a Birmingham based person the name is Seh-run. This happens with lots of names. I can think of Niamh, Louis, Javier as examples from my school.

Lynda has form for exaggerated and incorrect pronunciation.
Her chiminea and bergamot were particularly memorable