🦈 Archers thread #137: See left - have they jumped it? Discuss The Caseys - sorry, The Archers - here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think Steph Casey is a wonderful addition to the programme, or similar odd views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/4197199--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-6-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Too dispirited to add much else. Have we reached a new low?

I suppose the Archer twins will be born before we need a new thread. 👶👶
Any thoughts on names? Patrick and Antonia were suggested before - inspired! Peggy has to be a strong contender.

Over to you!

He should either say it with his own English accent or they should have picked a name that doesn't require welsh inflection to pronounce correctly
in my opinion

You only have to look at the Baby Names board here, though, to see that people don't think very long and hard about whether others will be able to spell and pronounce their child's name the way they want it spelled and pronounced. You see people who like the spelling of a name but refuse to pronounce it in the usual way and then get huffy that others do stick to the usual pronunciation.

Patasha - nice! Good to see them bonding.

Even a police officer of Harrison's limited abilities must have spotted something odd in Chelsea's responses. I wish Tracy would speak to Emma. I feel sure there's more to be found about about Gemma.

@LillianGish , I'd only say Paris in a jocular context or if speaking French, and try as I might I wouldn't sound french. It isn't pronounced that way in English or Welsh. If I said Paris St Germain i'd sort of say Parry Sanzher Man with a strong Welsh accent

Tom doesn't have a Brummie or mummerset accent. His way of saying it was spot on. Shouldn't be an issue. More an issue maybe was that Clarrieluv said SERR-enn, but if she had only heard it then she'd say it like that. She can make Wiwyum's name sound weird

I need a brummie to say them. I'm now hearing them said in an Ozzy Osbourne, sort of like Noyv, Lowoy and Hovy-air

I find Emmur's way of saying Keira strange - it's almost like Kee-uv-urr

(Now listening carefully to how to say Paris St Germain correctly. Google translate says Parris Street Jermayn, and I'm sticking to that so as not run the risk of sounding like a pretentious knob)

Now listening carefully to how to say Paris St Germain correctly - well a French football fan would say PSG (pronounced Pay Ess Jai)😉

Out of interest, how should Olwyn be pronounced?

They could have called them Mallt and Lleucu. A stained glass window about might and light.

Was it the thread where someone wanted to name their child Madeleine but pronounce it as Madder Line?

As we will soon be approaching 1,000 posts, I'd like to suggest Two stars for pronunciation! Join us here for a window on The Archers as the next thread title.

OL-win. It's the Welsh word for wheel.
If you meant Olwen, a very old Welsh girl's name, OL-wenn
OL - like in olive

Brummie Niamh was Neem or Nee vuh.
Louis is Loo ee.
Javier is Jav ee air. (Yes the J not H).

The pronunciation from Carrie did jar the most. A slightly more anglicised pronunciation would fit better with the portrayal of the rest of the things Tom says. He isn't brummie but a lot of the intonation is similar. Suppose the script writers and editors are stuck between the correct pronunciation and what people say in real life.

I think you're thinking Black Country not Brummie with your pronunciations of the names. Different accent again!

Thanks, Lillian! We are indeed getting close to that time. Any other ideas?

The Caseys are a distant and nasty memory for the moment, thanks be.

@Hercisback , crikey! They were approximations of how I thought Ozzy would say them. He's a brummie not yam yam

GOODBYE! to June Spencer. But surely, eventually, HELLO! to TMNOOGG.

Etc …

?

I like this especially "a window on the Archers".

I think the pronunciation chat is interesting, it reminds me of this sudden revelation I had at school that you could only pronounce the French/Spanish/whatever word properly if you basically put on a French/Spanish/whatever accent. Absolute game changer. So I do get that there's a difference between pronouncing something "correctly" as far as you can in your own accent, and actually trying to pronounce it like a person from that place would do. Doing the latter can land well and sound correct (like my old colleague who called his half-French daughter "Margot" Frenchly and beautifully), or it can land badly and sound a bit piss-takey or pretentious.

If you're from a part of England where people don't have an RP accent, you'll recognise the exciting mix of sensations you get when someone who does RP pronounces e.g. Doncaster, Bristol, Padstow etc in what they perceive to be the "correct" way 😂

@TheHideAndSeekingHill , please explain the Doncaster, Bristol, Padstow one to me. Are they saying Don-Carster/Donkster, Bristle and Pardstow or something? (assuming non-rhotic).

How about Barla for (Y) Bala and Rooth-in for Rhuthun/Ruthin, or Bligh-now for Blaenau . The last one was said several times on The Third Degree recently. .

It does get said as Serrun by non-Welsh speaker but that is as illogical as saying Gwen as Gwun, which AFAIK nobody does. No, that’s not a correct analogy. “U” is used only for an unstressed “e”, and a one syllable word can’t have an unstressed vowel

How about Barla for (Y) Bala and Rooth-in for Rhuthun/Ruthin, or Bligh-now for Blaenau So what’s the correct pronunciation? And what’s the pronunciation of Rhyd-y-creuau? It would make the difference between having to drive and being able to go by train and use a taxi for the last bit.

@TheHideAndSeekingHill I remember having exactly the same revelation! Who knew/why don't they tell you?!?!

@MereDintofPandiculation ,
Bala is BALLa - Ball like in Ballet, both As like the A in cat
Ruthin - RITH-in (Th like in thing)
Blaenau - no equivalent but approx BLAY-neh (Ay like in Aye)

Rhyd-y-creuau - I know exactly how to say it but no idea how to approximate it
Reed-er-CREY-eye might get you there, but it's not that.

'FSC place on Llanrwst Road, Betws-y-Coed' perhaps?
You could probably get a bus from Llanrwst (Llan-ROOST) that would take you there. Not sure how frequent they are.

You could always ask Natasha for her mother's phone number.

The vowel combinations are diphthongs and have no direct equivalent. RH has no direct equivalent, it's like saying R and H at the same time. It's not R and H, it's one letter. TH and DD are also single letters not two pairs of letters. TH is always th like in thing, thong, thank you, DD is always th like in the, that, this. Gwynedd and Gwyneth do not sound the same. Bedd sounds a bit like Bathe and nothing like Beth.
Speaking of Beth, not heard from the dreary lass for a while

@MereDintofPandiculation , the Es in Gwen and Seren are the same, stressed or unstressed. They're all the eh sound (as in meh, or like the e in Beth). It doesn't change. Anwen isn't pronouced Anwun or Anwyn.

I think the pronunciation chat is interesting

I don't. It's tedious but I will defend to the death your right to debate, even though my finger is getting tired of scrolling.

Roll on new thread, I say!

It is tedious, admittedly. It amazes me that people argue but I think that part of it due to the various type of welshness. I know people who claim to be fluent but can't actually construct a sentence.

My point about bringing it into the thread, is that TA could have done it differently. They could have had Natasha as a Welsh-speaker and her mother not. The stereotyping was not good.

Russ was very reasonable and sympathetic tonight - I do wonder if this part of a long run up to some kind of misunderstanding. Chelsea's perception of Russ may be starting to change in view of his kindness towards her - perhaps she will misinterpret his intentions. I don't think he's particularly interested in her, but she she may believe he is and, more to the point, Lily may also be inclined to believe this as well.

Chelsea should have been dismissed.
I have a friend with a nut allergy and have seen what can happen. A colleague has a DC with a sesame allergy.
Adil's friend would be within her rights to take it further.

But hey ho, Chelsea is a Horrobin, so therefore can't show any common sense.

Someone on the creative team is obsessed with food / allergies / near misses - but incapable of seeing just how serious these things are. We’ve only just had Fallon’s Secret Unlabelled Spice Mix which inadvertently did not wipe out Brookfield. And there was another incident before that, which I’ve forgotten. And now nuts.

You can’t write in a failure to follow the correct procedure for a nut allergy and then just shrug it off!