Call #111 for Archers advice: Is Hilda breathing? Should Joy be breathing? Could Nelson Gabriel be in cryogenic suspension? Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Joy's best friend or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks for all the input on title suggestions. I'd missed the significance of 111, but @R4 and DDD, our resident numerologist, were right on to it. Strongly tempted by Bore's suggestion but couldn't resist the chance to mention my favourite ever Archers character, Nelson Gabriel. Have not managed to incorporate a cricket reference, so you'll have to read up on that for yourselves. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_(cricket)

I wonder if this thread will last till Joe's funeral.

What are they up to with Joy and Tony???

Surely, surely not ...

I think if Tony and Joy get together I really will stop listening. A character transplant too far.
And where are the bloody Gills?

The absence of the Gills is extraordinary. So is the introduction of Joy. If the budget wouldn't stretch to a whole family of Gills the Joy actress could have been Mrs. Gill with a silent them indoors family.

There is no way that the likes of Kenton Philip, Lillian, Freddy , Toby, Pip, Alice, Susan or Tony would not have commented before now on Joy's MG if they had spotted it.

Yes, where is Rochelle? She's not only conspicuous by her physical absence, but also the fact that Joy, who normally can't open her mouth without mentioning Rochelle a hundred times, hasn't mentioned her at all since before Wednesday.

There's definitely something going on there.

Where did Peggy have her "interview"? I thought they were going to do it at her house.

I missed the bit with Jill and Leonard at the end, as DH decided at that moment to show me something on Twitter! I've told him about doing that, but I think he thinks, "Oh, I'll only speak for a few seconds, she won't miss anything in that short time." and of course, I invariably DO miss something!

Yes, where is Rochelle? She's not only conspicuous by her physical absence, but also the fact that Joy, who normally can't open her mouth without mentioning Rochelle a hundred times, hasn't mentioned her at all since before Wednesday

Rochelle has disappeared because they have done a character transplant on Joy. Possibly with the intention of setting her up with Tony.

Nope Rochelle didn't come after all on Wednesday - which is why Joy was in the Pub looking lonely on the day of Peggy's party. I am convinced that the Rochelle stuff has a backstory which will come out, and is actually planned (much more than or example Linda Snell's backstory was).
I don't think Joy and Tony will get together - but there could be gossip, which is pretty realistic for village life.

Just wanted to thank @R4 for her dedication in finding Home Farm and Grange Farm for us.

Popping by to say that I’ve just realised my 7yo dd has started keeping one of her dollies in the airing cupboard. The influence of Ambridge, surely...!

I agree Molly. I've been wondering if there's been an element of estrangement, and maybe Rochelle tentatively agreed she "might" come and visit her mother, (hence Joy telling everyone she was coming to visit) but decided not to, for some reason.

But whatever it is, there's certainly a back story. Ooh, or, she's in an abusive relationship, and her partner has stopped her visiting. It doesn't explain why Joy chose Ambridge to move to though.

I agree that there may be a sad back story to Joy and Rochelle. I reckon Rochelle has gone NC or LC because her mother is so overbearing. She’s probably written about it on Mumsnet at some point.

Do you think Jill is holding out for a proposal before she will consent to sharing a bed with Leonard? David doesn’t seem to realise they are in a relationship, rather than being friends. He definitely won’t be happy if they get married, so I hope they do.

Has it been established if Joy is widowed or divorced?

If Jill & Leonard get married, will there be inheritance issues?

She's divorced, she mentioned it in relation to keeping the car in the divorce. Until that scene I wondered if she had fled an abusive husband.

If Jill & Leonard get married, will there be inheritance issues?

Yes there will be.

Leonard would be entitled to one-third of the estate if there is a valid will, and the deceased spouse has children or grandchildren or two-thirds of the estate if there is no valid will, and the deceased spouse has children or grandchildren.

www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/married_couples/marital_status_and_inheritance.html

I know far more about Scots law than English law but under Scots law a spouse, provided they have had proper independence legal advice, can legally renounce these claims. I assume the same applies under English law. In the situation here where Leonard must have his own income and source of support it would be reasonable if they married that both Jill and Leonard renounced any claims.

Leonard would be entitled to one-third of the estate if there is a valid will

Surely if there's a valid will, it's whatever is in the will? If you consider it to unreasonable and therefore challenge it, it would become invalid.

In any case, it would go both ways - if Leonard died first, he had his house in Borchester. I can’t remember if he has children from his former marriage. I don't think there's been any mention of Jill meeting them if so.

In the situation here where Leonard must have his own income and source of support it would be reasonable if they married that both Jill and Leonard renounced any claims

Does Scots law allow for the model where the surviving spouse enjoys the benefits/home during their lifetime but then it continues to the deceased partners heirs (or preferred cattery)?

Surely if there's a valid will, it's whatever is in the will? If you consider it to unreasonable and therefore challenge it, it would become invalid

Who do you mean by "you"?

UK law (all jurisdictions) places certain restrictions on the ability to completely disinherit children and spouses. Children and spouses however can in the testator's lifetime renounce those rights because for example children have had substantial lifetime gifts and agree they should not get any more or a spouse is already independently wealthy and should not benefit over children.

Challenging a will because you think it isn't reasonable really isn't that simple.

Leonard has a son who lives in Singapore.

Presumably Jill has a will that she made before she met Leonard.

If she marries Leonard, then her will would become invalid. Until she makes a new one. What she says in the will is down to her, but I would imagine her children might be concerned that some of what would have been their inheritance would go to him, either way.

The law in England (as opposed to Ireland and Scotland), is that the spouse gets everything if the estate is £250k. The widowed spouse gets first £250k and half the remainder, with the rest going to descendants.

An existing Will is revoked upon marriage.

That would make an interesting storyline, but does Jill own very much nowadays? Leonard might, I suppose?

I think Leonard will urn out to be a wrong 'un.

turn not urn

isspacethefinalfrontier
"The entire affair was one (?) snog in the cow shed"
I am almost sure the tree house was involved.

Only after Ruth had confessed all and finished the affair and Sam had left. At that point David lost his temper and demolished the tree-house that Sam had spent the school holidays building with the children while David was off spending his time with Sophie.

His behaviour during that year was god-awful.

I do hope Leonard isn’t a bad ‘un. I like Jill more now she sounds happier. I’d love David’s nose to be out of joint too.

Re-Joy and Tony, I’d prefer if this is just a friendship that’s developing. I think Tony’s realised Joy is very lonely, he’s noted something’s amiss with Rochelle not appearing as planned. He’s just being kind and neighbourly. Of course people will gossip and Pat will voice concerns, stridently no doubt. A bit of a repeat as decades ago there was a female student in a caravan at BF - Tony was friendly (didn’t they share an interest in the Fergie?) and spent quite some time around her. Pat was stridently concerned then too. Oh well.

Madcats, do you mean in the case of intestacy? If there is a will, I thought in English law (unlike most other countries of the world, including Scotland) a spouse and/or children can be disinherited, but they can challenge the will if they can prove they were being financially supported by the deceased. Other reasons I believe a will can be overturned would be any or all of the following:

• the testator didn't have the mental capacity to make a will at the time of signing
• the testator was subjected to undue influence by a beneficiary
• the will wasn't properly witnessed or signed
• the will was forged
• a later will comes to light.

(Many years of whodunnit reading coming into play here but IANAL, so this may all be out of date/outright wrong.)