If The Archers characters were acted by dogs, Rob would be a Shih Tzu. Discuss Ambridge events here.

[PseudoBadger]

Avoided a non-sweary title.

But she's not complaining about the cooking and cleaning! I am!!

Helen and Rob? Pat's rapid acceptance didn't help that situation much?

Two sides of the coin! Two extreme reactions - blind non-acceptance and blind acceptance - neither of which did any good. You need a sensible moderate approach, with humour.

And this is why I'll never be a fiction writer. I can't be doing with unnecessary drama!

The fact people are complex and stay in situations they may not be happy with is the fabric of life and important in drama.

Sure she could just move back to her cottage but it's more complex and doesn't take into account history, family relations and how time and events change people so perhaps they no longer jigsaw together very well anymore but don't know how to fix it

If everyone in ambridge acted rationally it would be very dull!!

A sensible, moderate post, with humour. I like it anti

Francis yes but. Yes but ... it all started from Jill's irrational hatred of Toby, based on what Grace/Robin did 60/30 years ago.

Francis

It's just like Helen and Rob, only without the 'menace'.

What Helen wanted, Helen got. What Pip wants, Pip gets. Jill is playing Kirsty's role in this scenario. Frustrated at every turn.

Given Elizabeth's experience it's hardly surprising that Jill had reservations about them, surely? They didn't exactly ingratiate themselves from the off, threatening the Grundy's turkey empire so suddenly?

I was really irked by that episode.... You don't make flapjacks for someone, you make flapjack. It's one big flapjack cut into pieces of flapjack, not flapjacks. Grr. Even two big batches would still be flapjack. Flapjack.

Vango I agree with you (again) re Jill. She used to have a very well defined role and position as Phil's wife and she's having to redefine that and doing it pretty well I think. It must be incredibly hard to have to move out of your own home - even though it makes perfect sense that David and Ruth should take over Brookfield. It would be incredibly hard to go back to living on your own after living in the centre of things for so many years - you can't compare Jill with Carol or Jim or even Peggy, their circumstances were totally different. Jill wants to be needed because she is used to being needed and enjoys it and in any case it suits everyone at Brookfield for her to continue to fulfill her old role as traditional farmer's wife. I don't think she's a martyr about it and I don't really think they take her for granted - it's an arrangement that suits everyone. Her violent dislike of Toby is interesting because I think she has behaved out of character and I'm not at all convinced by the jealousy of Grace suddenly raising its head at the 11th hour after never before being alluded to. However as unrealistic as this has been there is a very strong dramatic irony in that we all know she is right. She appears to have been behaving unreasonable to her family because they don't know what we know (and neither does she to be fair), she is about to be vindicated big time I hope.

Not in my house Goldnick I make them in a tin without cutting them first then I cut them up when they're done .They are more than one so plural, hence 'flapjacks". Also any cookbooks I care to name have them in the plural.

I agree Vango. I enjoyed Jill and Peggy's conversation in church, when Jill said she wanted to lob a brick through Grace's window every time she saw it. It is the sort of irrational thing that makes her human. It is characteristic of Jill to make a huge effort to sort things out.

The Pip thing though. I am constantly surprised that no one in TA seems to find her the colossally self absorbed madam that she is.

Still looking forward to the SWs working out what on earth is going on in Brighton.

Emma used to clean at Brookfield. Jenny must have a cleaner

I don't think it's irrational to loathe cocklodger Tobee. Eminently sensible in fact.

Yes, but we actually know a lot more about Toby and what he gets up to than Jill does. She has seen a couple of things where he was at fault, such as the Flower & Produce preserve scandal, but actually, that was mostly an understandable mistake that anyone not brought up in the ways of showing exhibits might have made or not thought to check, and I think Toby was judged more harshly for that mistake than anyone else would have been.

I would say that going by what Jill actually knows of Toby, her feelings are verging on irrational - although of course she's going to be proved right in the end.

I think I've just been defending Toby. I have concerns about myself.

Yes there have been numerous references around the village about how useless Toby is. Jill knows that his own brother thinks he is lazy and selfish (not going to see his dad when ill), caring for family and being hard-working are very important to Jill .

I'm with Mummytime - Jill may be happy to do the washing up, but I really think that after she's prepared, cooked and served up a large meal for 8, basic good manners demands that the family should have insisted on doing it.

Yes but ... it all started from Jill's irrational hatred of Toby, based on what Grace/Robin did 60/30 years ago.

Rational or irrational, Pip had no business just inviting someone to Jill's birthday celebration without checking, and, whether rational or irrational, surely her views should have had priority?

I would say that going by what Jill actually knows of Toby, her feelings are verging on irrational - although of course she's going to be proved right in the end.

We don't know how much she knows. She might well have heard at some point about his general unreliability with the poultry - I suspect Josh would have ranted about it in her presence - and she certainly knew about the gin brewing thing and was entitled to be very unhappy about something that could have resulted in David and Ruth being prosecuted.

The Pip thing though. I am constantly surprised that no one in TA seems to find her the colossally self absorbed madam that she is.

Yes, that's really odd. It would be great if someone sensible like Debbie could be heard to enunciate a few home truths occasionally. Or we could very usefully hear Josh telling David and Ruth that actually the sun doesn't shine out of her arse and they don't have a duty to offer free lodging to her boyfriend just because she's having a hissy fit.

I make Flapjack, too. Only rarely, though, because i don't really like them.

But Broomstick, if it's flapjack you make, surely you do so only rarely because you don't really like IT? I'm intrigued by this discussion. If flapjack is an uncountable noun, do you therefore offer someone 'a piece of flapjack', or 'some flapjack' rather than 'a flapjack'?

Betcha Lillian tells Helen. Does Helen know about Fag Ash and Justin? I get the feeling that Tony and Pat don't share stuff like that with 'the children'.

He's out in the woods, isn't he?

Go, Pat!

Cromwell yes, I'd offer a place of or some flapjack or shortbread, not a flapjack or a shortbread.

Off to check recipe books... Can't think I've ever seen it as plural?!

Yay! Proper Pat!