Inequality in Devon and Cornwall

[GraceJonesBiggestFan]

So there have been a lot of threads about moving to the South West recently. Many including people who have moved down and criticised the local people for being insular or lacking aspiration. Many also including comments from people like me who are offended at the suggestion and have tried to explain why local people might feel incredibly upset at the awful inequality in Devon and Cornwall, and frustrated with the lack of empathy shown by people who’ve moved down with a ton of money.

So I thought I’d break it down on a new thread, so it’s not something personal against individual posters seeking advice.

The TLDR is this www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-61241981

My family have lived within the same 2 villages for over 500 years. In that time they were all collectively employed by the local landowner (Clinton Devon Estates, in various iterations over the years). They all worked as farm labourers, domestic service, blacksmiths etc. They never owned property because a) they would never have earned enough and b) they had housing provided as part of their remuneration. It was hard work, but to be fair to Lord and Lady Clinton they gave jobs for life and when for example my Grandad retired, he was able to continue living in his family house for a peppercorn rent.

My grandparents were both very sharp, but both worked from the age of 12/14 to put food on the table. So no opportunities for betterment. My Dad is very clever, but there was no way his parents could afford the additional tuition for his 11 plus, so he left school at 14 to work as a labourer. My sisters and I were all recognised by our primary school teachers as being more than capable of going to the local grammar, but the bus there was £60 a term and the uniform £120. There was absolutely no way my parents could afford this. I spent much of my childhood growing up in a caravan in a field, but still achieved 11 As and A*s at GCSE (back then this was incredibly unusual).

The kids in my class who went to the grammar school and then went on to university were entirely the children of parents who had moved down from the South East. Their parents sold houses in London, bought what seemed like a mansion in Devon. They paid for their children to have additional tuition to pass the entrance exams, paid for them to do music, sports and language lessons. Supported them financially to go to university and do unpaid internships.

I don’t begrudge them this at all. If I had the means, I would do the same for my daughter.

But I hope it in some way explains why it’s not a “lack of aspiration” that holds people here back. The inequality in Devon and Cornwall is horrific and has gotten unbearably worse in the last 2 years. People recognise inner-city poverty and deprivation, but the poverty and inequality in Devon and Cornwall is statistically much worse. Consider that if you live in poverty in London, you at least have access to many universities and can continue to live at home rent free. If you grow up in Devon or Cornwall, your options for studying and living at home are much more limited. Most people born and bred here therefore earn minimum wage. Their parents weren’t home owners themselves (so no help with buying), but are now competing with people who have grown up in the South East with all the opportunities for social mobility there are there, with all the equity from their home ownership, with much higher wages etc.

I see it now again. The kids with the rich parents who moved down during the pandemic, now lining up a ton of extra-curricular activities so their child again gets the grammar school places. The local kids left behind to be laughed at as “lacking aspiration”. The parents in their cars that cost more than most people here will earn in 8 years. The wellies that cost more than my own car. The music, sports and language lessons that cost more than most parents receive in universal credit. Getting turfed out to live in B&Bs because your landlords selling up (for extortionate London prices) or turning your home into an air bnb. We’re not “unfriendly” or “insular”, we’re just utterly heartbroken.

Great post OP. It’s a travesty what is going on with property in Devon and Cornwall. Local families are being shut out of having anywhere they can afford to live with so many rents going up and former rental homes being converted to holiday cottages/Air BnBs. The government could intervene as other countries have done so in terms of limiting Air BnBs and holiday cottages/flats to ensure that locals are prioritised for housing. But they haven’t and it seems unlikely they would.

Another challenge is the number of rich SE property owners buying second or third holiday homes in Devon and Cornwall causing unsightly housing developments on prescious stretches of coast or countryside. Blighting the natural beauty with a housing estate that is deserted 9 months of the year. And yet locals have to pay the higher council tax to support those unlived in totems of luxury and wealth.

The U.K. Government could intervene to limit second or third home ownership as well but they won’t as many of the MPs are second/third home owners and they’re not going to vote against their own interests.

It’s a real shame.

Having grown up near the most southerly point of the UK, I understand the passions which drive these discussions of rural life, and especially Cornish life, from both sides of the fence. The village my parents moved to 1962 left my mum with a lifelong distaste for rural Cornwall. To say that she wasn't welcomed into the community would be an understatement: in 11 years, she was never offered a cup of tea or invited in by 'local' people. I passed the 11+ and won a County Council place at an independent school (a scheme that no longer exists), and so went off to uni in 1974, then to London and later New York, returned to London and in 1990 back to Cornwall for a life as a freelance writer. My work all came from London or further afield, but I continued to earn as well as I ever did. I was a pioneer of the WFH and telecommute/travel to meetings that's now commonplace. But my network was built elsewhere, and that's the point -- only people who have left and returned bringing work with them can afford a nice life in Cornwall. I was lucky to be able to buy a house when Cornish property was some of the cheapest in the UK, apart from Padstow, Rock and St Mawes which have been priced like London suburbs since I was a child. If a person has never left the county and doesn't have a professional skill, then employment prospects and opportunities are mostly minimum wage and seasonal work in care, horticulture or hospitality. Public sector workers, like nurses and teachers, are considered well-paid here, and any job advertised will get a tidal wave of applications, because it is a lovely place to live, and mostly nowadays it's nothing like as parochial as my mum found it. But properties have increased by up to about 800%, fuelled by second homes, holiday lets and AirBnB. Almost nobody lives in the village where I grew up now, because there are no jobs that pay well enough for local people to buy.

So very well said OP. Housing opportunities count for so much these days in terms is wealth and social mobility. I came from a humble beginning and am currently in a situation I never envisaged of possibly buying a home to move into up North and letting out my existing property down South. My thinking is that it could mean someone who is not in a position to buy here, being able to live here. It concerns me that some areas are becoming accessible to only a limited section of society, which I don’t think is particularly healthy for the local community, which is still needing certain types of workers.

There is still some schemes to address this. When I started my social work course I was told that Cornish placements were given to those from the area, and rightly so. My grandparents moved from Penzance further north and would never be able to move back. Both my parents are from Bath and have similar experiences. My great grandad was a boiler engineer and great nan was a stay at home parent and they bought a three bed in Bath. Our family couldn't dream of doing that now, despite both parents working. I don't think it's just limited to your region, however I do take your point about there not being much industry apart from tourism and healthcare.

I agree.

Its like when people bang on about the north being poor - it has cheap houses, very closely positioned commutable cities etc

South west poverty really is something else

its hard to explain to anyone who isn’t from here but they don’t care anyway

This isn’t unique to Cornwall. The south east isn’t a ghetto of rich people you know. My own grandparents grew up in London slums and lived in council housing all their lives earning a pittance. My mum too. Never could afford to buy a home. London has been unaffordable for working class people for decades. Poverty and resulting lack of aspiration and opportunity happens all over the country. Not that I’m unsympathetic to what you’re saying.

I mean... I see your point. But you're incredibly fortunate that your family has been able to stay put for half a millennium. I'm Jewish. In the past 500 years my family has had to flee for their lives many, many times, taking only what they could carry, making new homes in new countries, over and over again.

My grandparents immigrated to the UK in early 20th c, fleeing pogroms in Russia and Poland, and moved to London. None of them were able to stay at school past the age of 12 for the same reasons as your family - urgent financial need - they had to work.

I'm raising my kids in London, where I grew up. The vast majority of families at my children's school have had to make new lives for themselves, many of them far more recently than my own grandparents. Indians who fled Uganda/Kenya/Zambia in the 70s/80s/90s. Iranians who escaped after the islamic revolution. Somalis, Turks, Kurds, Albanians, Romanians, Czechs, Poles, Bulgarians, Hungarians, Lithuanians, Sri Lankans, Bengalis, Nigerians, Jamaicans, Moroccans... people have uprooted their whole lives, some of them multiple times, starting from nothing, to try to make the best life for themselves and their children.

You don't seem to recognise how unusual and how privileged it is to stay in the same place for centuries on end. Almost no one in the world has that privilege.

You should at least attempt to acknowledge and understand that.

Couldn’t let one thread be about the SW could you
You’re missing OP’s point
the poor in places like london and some of the north are generally better placed to better themselves
people in the SW can easily live 2 hours drive to nearest city and home if you’re skint is a caravan
public transport non existent
nearest college could easily be 20 miles away
it’s not the same

Ok let’s say only the rich and those who can afford it live in the S
who farms?
where does our food come from?

One thing Cornwall could do is to stop voting for numpties like George Eustice.

In my Devon community there are 60 places listed on Airbnb for a week in June and yet on a daily basis there are local families who live and work here desperate on the community FB group for somewhere to live as they are being evicted from their rented home. Soon there will be no one to work in the cafes / holiday parks / care homes as there is no where for people to live. I’ve never seen it this bad before and scares me that my children will just not be able to live here. I saw some shipping containers homes being proposed to house workers in Cornwall it’s bloomin crazy and sad the disparity in wealth that is growing bigger daily. It used to be if you worked in SE you got ‘London weighting’ on your salary but if those roles are now WFH has this been removed??

You don't seem to recognise how unusual and how privileged it is to stay in the same place for centuries on end.

This really depends on where your family is for centuries on end and their circumstances. The OPs family history is one of generations of labourer for a local aristocrat, always too poor to own any property, too poor to access education and too poor to migrate elsewhere for better opportunities.

Yes it’s not as bad as being a refugee fleeing for your life, but the last time that happened in your family was a hundred years ago. You’ve not been a refugee. You’re not trapped. OPs family has been trapped in rural poverty for every generation. OP is hardly privileged. And we certainly wouldn’t call all the families currently trapped in Afghanistan and starving to death ‘privileged’ either for being stuck in the same place their family has been for centuries. Sometimes the ability to flee to safety as a refugee can be a privilege compared to other circumstances.

In short, I think it really distasteful that you have decided to lecture the OP on privilege of all things.

👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻

But in many individual peoples lives and circumstances, it pretty much is the same.

The OP has posted with the tone that compared to the entire rest of the country, Devon and Cornwall are particularly hard done by, but I just don’t see it.

Students that live in poverty have access to full tuition and maintenance loans if they want to study and many students get jobs as well. There is nothing stopping students in Devon and Cornwall doing exactly the same as students from the rest of the country that move out for uni.

We are in the South West DH is a local I'm from London. He couldn't afford to buy a home in his village as its a beautiful seaside place now mainly air b and B and holidays homes. His family farmed there for generations. We live further down the coast in a cheaper area. I actually got quite annoyed with some people who had moved down in the 90s and were whingeing that the area is becoming so built up and how so and so road used to be fields when they visited their parents who had moved down in 70s to retire... they were not impressed when I pointed out they were part of the problem and that the locals felt like that watching the village being turned into effectively a huge housing estate!

Sometimes the ability to flee to safety as a refugee can be a privilege compared to other circumstances.

wow.

I think I get what you’re saying op. I’m a firm believer in making your own way in life and taking every opportunity to better yourself, but in order to do that you need opportunities to take.

something should be done about the housing situation as that seems to be a major problem, perhaps limiting second homes and air bnbs and having preferential housing schemes for locals. Education needs to be invested in too, getting rid of grammar schools would help and creating good comprehensives.

too poor to migrate elsewhere for better opportunities.

did you miss the bit where I explained about all the refugees who have come here with literally nothing but the clothes on their backs?

But sure. People whose families have stayed safely in the same village for five centuries have it much harder than the people who've left their entire lives behind and started with absolutely nothing.

@Organictangerine

Ok let’s say only the rich and those who can afford it live in the S
who farms?
where does our food come from?

Over 80 percent of our food is imported. Is that what you meant?

I hear you. But it’s not only those areas. My life was pretty awful and blighted. In London. No hope of living at home and going to university. It’s not all rosy and wealthy parents. But I do understand the point you’re making.

Excellent OP. My dh is from Plymouth and I lived with him there for 10 years (94-04). We were fortunate to spend lots of time in Devon & Cornwall and even in that 10 years, saw huge change & not for the better. Since we moved North because of the better career opportunities for dh in particular, that change has accelerated and it makes me so sad. It is a very different area from other places that have been mentioned and not comparable. We love West Cornwall and are looking to spend a few days there in September & hoping to stay in a B&B as I feel guilty at being part of the problem if we go self catering (too old for static caravan!!)

My family are from the South West, for hundreds of years. Dad did the 11plus and went to grammar school, his mum was a cleaner and dad was a hospital porter. They moved away when we were kids and I’m absolutely gutted. I desperately want to move back but could never afford to, I feel very disconnected from my roots. Can’t afford to stay where I grew up either so have had to move to a very different area of the country.

I’m very envious of you OP.

But won't this have happened everywhere that's a nice tourist spot eg Costa Del Sol, Greek Islands. The locals must have moved away leaving it for the tourists. I'm in rural Scotland and all the unmodernised cottages that could be rented for peanuts are now spruced up Airbnbs.
I don't think it's fixable.

I agree OP but I also do think a lot of the locals can be unfriendly and almost aggressive to visitors? A good friend of mine lives in a small village in Devon, it’s lovely but whenever I visit I get so much stick for choosing to live in a northern city and almost sneered at for not living in the beautiful Devonshire countryside. I don’t argue back and always just say it’s lovely there but it’s a bit tedious. I wonder if that defensiveness is to keep more people from moving there? Thinking of the opportunities my kids have here compared to those raised in Devon is absolutely huge and I agree needs to be addressed.

What are you on about? What op is saying applies to working class people living in rented accommodation and precarious employment in counties all over the UK. ‘One thread about the SW’ made me chuckle, there is probably a weekly thread on here about the southwest and it’s housing crisis and horrible Londoners.