Inequality in Devon and Cornwall

[GraceJonesBiggestFan]

So there have been a lot of threads about moving to the South West recently. Many including people who have moved down and criticised the local people for being insular or lacking aspiration. Many also including comments from people like me who are offended at the suggestion and have tried to explain why local people might feel incredibly upset at the awful inequality in Devon and Cornwall, and frustrated with the lack of empathy shown by people who’ve moved down with a ton of money.

So I thought I’d break it down on a new thread, so it’s not something personal against individual posters seeking advice.

The TLDR is this www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-61241981

My family have lived within the same 2 villages for over 500 years. In that time they were all collectively employed by the local landowner (Clinton Devon Estates, in various iterations over the years). They all worked as farm labourers, domestic service, blacksmiths etc. They never owned property because a) they would never have earned enough and b) they had housing provided as part of their remuneration. It was hard work, but to be fair to Lord and Lady Clinton they gave jobs for life and when for example my Grandad retired, he was able to continue living in his family house for a peppercorn rent.

My grandparents were both very sharp, but both worked from the age of 12/14 to put food on the table. So no opportunities for betterment. My Dad is very clever, but there was no way his parents could afford the additional tuition for his 11 plus, so he left school at 14 to work as a labourer. My sisters and I were all recognised by our primary school teachers as being more than capable of going to the local grammar, but the bus there was £60 a term and the uniform £120. There was absolutely no way my parents could afford this. I spent much of my childhood growing up in a caravan in a field, but still achieved 11 As and A*s at GCSE (back then this was incredibly unusual).

The kids in my class who went to the grammar school and then went on to university were entirely the children of parents who had moved down from the South East. Their parents sold houses in London, bought what seemed like a mansion in Devon. They paid for their children to have additional tuition to pass the entrance exams, paid for them to do music, sports and language lessons. Supported them financially to go to university and do unpaid internships.

I don’t begrudge them this at all. If I had the means, I would do the same for my daughter.

But I hope it in some way explains why it’s not a “lack of aspiration” that holds people here back. The inequality in Devon and Cornwall is horrific and has gotten unbearably worse in the last 2 years. People recognise inner-city poverty and deprivation, but the poverty and inequality in Devon and Cornwall is statistically much worse. Consider that if you live in poverty in London, you at least have access to many universities and can continue to live at home rent free. If you grow up in Devon or Cornwall, your options for studying and living at home are much more limited. Most people born and bred here therefore earn minimum wage. Their parents weren’t home owners themselves (so no help with buying), but are now competing with people who have grown up in the South East with all the opportunities for social mobility there are there, with all the equity from their home ownership, with much higher wages etc.

I see it now again. The kids with the rich parents who moved down during the pandemic, now lining up a ton of extra-curricular activities so their child again gets the grammar school places. The local kids left behind to be laughed at as “lacking aspiration”. The parents in their cars that cost more than most people here will earn in 8 years. The wellies that cost more than my own car. The music, sports and language lessons that cost more than most parents receive in universal credit. Getting turfed out to live in B&Bs because your landlords selling up (for extortionate London prices) or turning your home into an air bnb. We’re not “unfriendly” or “insular”, we’re just utterly heartbroken.

And tourism isn’t the biggest industry, at least in Devon. Most residents don’t rely on it for their income.

This is true, tourism brings in the most money overall buy that takes into account the money earned from holiday homes and small B&Bs in which don't employ people or many people, 1/5 people in Cornwall work in tourism which means 4/5 don't.

I don't think any sensible person can deny that there isa housing crusts in both cities and rural areas throughout the UK and many problems experienced by those on rural Cornwall/Scotland/Wales etc are the same as those experienced in inner city London/Glasgow etc. But some problems re unique to rural areas. Number 1 being transport or lack of it. Much of Scotland is surprisingly well served with buses compared to England (we have 4 buses a day admittedly only in the day time) my grand parents village in rural Devon had 1 bus a week but despite this there is a very heavy reliance on cars. My region is 6000+ square km but has a very low population density there is only one biggish town (population 45000) everywhere else is small towns and villages, I work in the public sector in this town and commute a 40+ mile journey every day. A friend who lives in London couldn't believe it, it highly unlikely that anyone living in London would commute that kind if distance. We are lucky we have a village shop that is not uncommon round here except in a few villages known to have a high number of holiday homes! But our nearest supermarket clothes shop pet food store DIY shop etc is 10 miles away ditto leisure facilities swimming pool etc, no cinema for 40 miles. This obviously means we are all exceedingly reliant on our cars, purchasing them maintaining them and oparticularly pertinent at the moment with spiralling prices is the cost of petrol which is also more expensive in rural areas, apparently something to do with the cost of delivery, its 10p a litre cheaper in Glasgow. Im lucky Im not on the minimum wage but for those who are a 40+ miles commute 5 days a week in a car is now not becoming very tenable, I know a couple of cleaners in my place of work who are considering giving up their jobs if petrol prices continue to rise because when you add in say child care whilst you're at work then they are beginning to feel its not worth working. We have friends who live in London who dont own a car because they feel there is no need or others who rarely use it.
Secondly I dont know the stats but the number of seasonal/minimum wage jobs in rural areas in much higher than say in London/Glasgow my DH used to run a large company 20 years ago he was paying a man £20K just to push a broom round the floor because otherwise he couldn't get anyone. Many public sector jobs offer increased salaries by adding on London waiting for whatever it's call now. We shouldn't under estimate the problems around seasonal work here our tourist season in particular short probably end of April to middle of September, its probably longer in places like Cornwall but how can people find accommodation if they do not have a regular income 12 months of the year.

Yes, it would have been early 1960s. The children in his school that passed the 11+ and went to the local grammar had additional tuition.

In East Devon and Exeter, there are several and were even more 60 years ago.

Bringing back grammars in Cornwall prob wouldn't help. It would be the same MC kids who could afford the tutoring.
Tutoring wasn't a thing in the 60s. It def is now!

And yet the statistics simply don’t bear that out…

Wow some of the comparisons here are really unhelpful, no one said being poor in London was easy. Being poor anywhere is tough.

The housing crisis in the SW is unique in that it could have been very easily avoided and is completely home grown. The simple truth is that there are plenty of houses, but many of them stand empty for much of year or are ABnB making £10,000s per year for landlords who live up country.

Yes, it would have been early 1960s. The children in his school that passed the 11+ and went to the local grammar had additional tuition.

I am very surprised.

Consider that if you live in poverty in London, you at least have access to many universities and can continue to live at home rent free

Oh this old chestnut - everyone in cities benefits from streets paved with gold. City communities have been displaced and destroyed by incomers just as rural communities have.

In the countryside you are in an environment many people would kill for, outdoor space, fresh air and a low crime rate. Cost of living is lower as well. Poverty is poverty wherever you are. Its not a competition, simply some aspects will be different.

If you are from the SW you will know well that in each area the capital assets are largely owned by a few local families who also reap the bulk of the benefits of subsidies and tourism. Yet still voters vote in the same self serving local government reps and consistently return majority Tory MPs.

Sometimes you get what you vote for.

It's exactly this - why was one huge, wealthy, aristocratic land owner good? But multiple smaller, less wealthy, less aristocratic holiday home owners are bad?

And with remote working, there's no reason that a job has to be in the SW for someone living in the SW to do it.

I live hundreds of km from where I grew up, and at times in different countries while I got the training, education and experience my job needs. I grew up in an area with no public transport, no good post secondary education etc. I know plenty of other people in this situation too. Some might eventually move back "home" but other people moved on.

If prospects are do awful in the area your family lived in 500 years ago, then why stay? Historically my family left Ireland in a famine. Should I feel hard fine by that I can't live in an area my ancestors inhabited for thousands of years because the world has since changed? It just seems so odd that you feel entitled to everything being on your doorstep to make you have the life you want.

Our village in Cornwall still has plenty of locals who have manged to either buy or rent and there are fewer 2nd homes/AirBnB's than further West, we ve still got a lively village 12 months of the year.

However, its changing rapidly, we've had articles on SM saying what an idyllic secret it is and especially since LD we've seen prices rocket and more and more very wealthy people move in and then buy an "investment property" or two! and not to rent but for AirBnB.
The local pubs are struggling for staff as young people have moved away & local care agencies returning care contracts is a huge issue.

There is a really have and have nots divide.

Its sad really as its easy to see whats going to happen over the next few years.

Yes exactly. In the areas I know best its not wealthy Londoners who own all the local AirBnBs, its local landowners and farmers. They used removal of employment "red tape" in the 80s to make all their previously employed staff with tied housing into self employed effectively zero hours contracts. The wondrous Clintons doubtless did something similar.

Its these same landowners who buy up much of the housing stock to develop and sell at a premium or use for tourism.

And yet still the local families are endlessly excused for this and everything blamed on incomers. People still vote for the same councilors and the same politicians who look after the vested interests of locals who own capital. Why would anything change?

That’s where my dad lived (well, whole family for generations). He went to Tiverton Grammar, would have started in the late 50s. He wouldn’t have had any tutoring. I’ve said upthread that his mum was a cleaner and dad a hospital porter (or may have been a leather worker at that stage). Lived in a council house and ended up in the police which is how we moved away as a family.

I’d love to be able to afford to move back. I genuinely feel a real connection to there but can’t afford it. I now live in a post industrial town with lots of deprivation in the north of England.

I’m really envious of those people who still have that connection with their heritage.

Tutoring for the 11+ would have been extremely unusual in the 1960s in Devon @GraceJonesBiggestFan. It was unknown in west Cornwall in 1967. Of the 34 children in my class, none were tutored and three passed, and the teachers knew who would pass before anyone wrote their name on the papers. We also took the 10+ the year before, which went heavy on non-verbal reasoning to assess innate ability.

But housing and transport issues have to be turned around if there is to be any improvement. Second home owners need to pay full council tax, and there ought to be a tourist tax per bed per night for holiday lets, hotel rooms and BnBs (no exemptions for children) most areas of France and Germany add about a euro per night to be ring-fenced for local needs.

I see it now again. The kids with the rich parents who moved down during the pandemic, now lining up a ton of extra-curricular activities so their child again gets the grammar school places. The local kids left behind to be laughed at as “lacking aspiration”. The parents in their cars that cost more than most people here will earn in 8 years. The wellies that cost more than my own car. The music, sports and language lessons that cost more than most parents receive in universal credit. Getting turfed out to live in B&Bs because your landlords selling up (for extortionate London prices) or turning your home into an air bnb. We’re not “unfriendly” or “insular”, we’re just utterly heartbroken.

I don't understand. Are you in Cornwall? There are no Grammar schools. My DC went to the local comp like everyone else. The aspiration thing is a thing for me because the school actually had the word "Aspiration" in their recently conjured motto. They didn't seem to encourage it however. Middle class parents who couldn't hack the idea transported their kids 20+ miles to Truro School or Truro High. Although both have entrance exams they're not onerous. Certainly no where near as competitive as the likes of Tiffin and other grammar schools.

My DD's best friend came from a family who actively discouraged her to go to university. They couldn't see the point and to be fair were fearful of the fees and debts. The friend applied alongside DD though and got a place and is now in a great job hundreds of miles away. She may find a way back one day (me and DH did, as did many of our friend). But she may not. Who knows. But her family are now so pleased she stuck her neck out and went against the family grain.

@C8H10N4O2 you might know some areas, but in the region I live in the vast majority of ABnBs and second homes are owned by people outside the area.

I don't understand why some people think it is a privilege to live in a sustainable community that provides employment, housing, education and wellbeing to all. Cities and industrial towns have always had poverty as have rural areas.

The difference now is that we are knowingly destroying local communities largely for the benefit of non-locals. How is it a privilege to not have your community destroyed?

Local landowners and wealthy Airbnb owners from London are both problems. The issue could be tackled through a combination of planning system changes and taxation.

But the locals keep voting Tory, who maintain the status quo so nothing changes. It could get nasty eventually if not tackled, as it did in Wales in the 70s.

Great post OP.

I love Devon. I live in the south east and have family in Devon. As a keyworker I've looked to move down three pre pandemic but it wouldn't have worked for personal reasons.

I hear your heartbreak and totally understand your POV.

I live in Cornwall. I was part of the influx of university "migrants" when the Exeter/Falmouth uni campus opened. (That was about 8 years ago).

My DH is from very rural East Anglia and the farming live you describe is exactly what he experienced. Nobody in his family went to uni, and even the newer generations are somewhat discouraged to go, so I don't think it's a West Country exclusive.

I know plenty of local Cornish born and bred people with university degrees that ended with minimum wage jobs because that's the best they can get locally.

In many ways the pandemic is one of the best things that happened to Cornwall, because can now do remote jobs that offer some social mobility.

I don't get the appeal of Cornwall, I never will. I can admit I'm a city rat and an urban setting is what makes me happy.

LocalHobo, the local occupancy rule in Cumbria applies to a miniscule number of properties. In many villages in the Lake District NP there is, as pp pointed out, over 80% of the property is either second home, empty for large part of the year, or holiday let.
DSis lives in a LD village. During lockdown, seven properties came up for sale and six went as second homes/holiday lets.

Simon Reeve had a programme which covered the problem earlier this year - hotels were having to bus staff 90 minutes each way into Windermere and other places in the NP from the West coast, Whitehaven, Workington etc because the cleaners, kitchen and waiting staff, maintenance staff couldn't afford to live anywhere near where they were working.

To the pp who buys up property to 'rehabilitate' in Norfolk, and it's OK because none of the locals are interested, only wanting new builds, I imagine your rehabilitation project property plus the costs involved to renovate are way beyond the pockets of the local families looking for a home. Plus of course, having the money to rent while you're completing your project.

I live in Scotland and same thing is happening here. The Scottish government are looking at legislating to combat the number of Airbnb lets in Edinburgh.

Very interesting thread thanks OP. I don’t want to derail from the West Country but would also say I’ve seen this in Suffolk and Norfolk too, people moving from London with large budgets and pushing prices up, also a huge amount of second homeowners. A subsequent recruitment crisis on the coast too, it’s only second homeowners to blame. I’m originally from an area similar and moved further North to a far more affordable area that isn’t fashionable and isn’t on the radar of the second home brigade. It’s actually a lovely understated rural area, the difference is it’s lived in permanently, hence the villages are thriving. Plus house prices are reasonably sensible too, still possible to get on housing ladder in modest salaries. It isn’t all perfect, I would agree with a pp from Cornwall who mentioned dominance of certain cliques and families on Parish Councils etc, that is certainly a rural thing and not good either. Large families holding sway with the ownership mentality from decades of living there. Also the question of the big landowners, are they really benign and kind givers of homes?! The village next to me is half owned by one very wealthy landowner, yes he is a good landlord but even so….. it creates a huge level of control and influence that is deeply unhealthy. I remember staying to Evershot (the pub) in Dorset and was astonished that every blue doored cottage from there to the coast was owned by ONE woman whose huge country estate was next to the village. A jaw dropping amount of homes owned by one person.
I am currently renovating my home, and buying home magazines and I’m utterly sick of so many of the homes featured being “rural retreats”, “a bolt hole from busy London lives”, “a place for our kids to escape to and enjoy at weekends” - it is frankly nauseating. I am not driven by envy, I have a good income and am fortunate. But to see these lovely homes featured, just being used a handful of times and the cringing privilege oozing out of the accompanying text “busy lives” and “retreats” does really get my back up. It is wrong. Second homes do need to attract a vast amount of taxation. Some people will still afford it though. It isn’t about envy it’s about overpopulation and a lack of homes. I do have a lot of sympathy with anyone who is priced out of their childhood counties or cities but having said that can we say anyone has a right to remain there? Many, many people throughout history have moved on from the place of their birth. But I appreciate the unfairness and resentment too OP. Certainly the parts of West Country, east anglia and the North that are hammered with second homes are reaching crisis point though - it is impossible to live there on lower incomes and the irony of complaints of poor service from the wealthy second home owners when they can’t get the staff to serve them are something to be behold - will they cotton on they are the problem and the root of it? The entitlement and privilege of these people absolutely does rankle at best and at worst has created a huge housing crisis in the aforementioned areas. That said people who have lots of kids are bluntly also contributing to the crisis too. Overpopulation is starting to bite.

Our parish has a resident population of 2500, there are 400+ Air BnB listings and there will be more still unlisted 2nd homes and more still via holiday management companies. This also excludes the vast campsites and holiday parks.

There is no shortage of houses.

Oh and it takes my son over an hour to get to college on the bus.

@Daftasabroom yes rural transport is a real issue. So many bus routes have been cancelled in recent years. Whilst I totally understand there is huge poverty in London, it has huge amounts spent on public transport and education compared to the rest of the country. Rural poverty has long been overlooked and poor transport is part of that.

@LoveLabradors I don't think the rural living crisis should be compared with inner city poverty, the causes and solutions are similar but not the same. What is galling is that we are knowingly sacrificing rural and in particular coastal communities for the benefit of rich local landowners and in particular the home counties middle class.

I don’t anyone would have except for op talking nonsense about people Living in poverty in London being better off. Read the Op!