Inequality in Devon and Cornwall

[GraceJonesBiggestFan]

So there have been a lot of threads about moving to the South West recently. Many including people who have moved down and criticised the local people for being insular or lacking aspiration. Many also including comments from people like me who are offended at the suggestion and have tried to explain why local people might feel incredibly upset at the awful inequality in Devon and Cornwall, and frustrated with the lack of empathy shown by people who’ve moved down with a ton of money.

So I thought I’d break it down on a new thread, so it’s not something personal against individual posters seeking advice.

The TLDR is this www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-61241981

My family have lived within the same 2 villages for over 500 years. In that time they were all collectively employed by the local landowner (Clinton Devon Estates, in various iterations over the years). They all worked as farm labourers, domestic service, blacksmiths etc. They never owned property because a) they would never have earned enough and b) they had housing provided as part of their remuneration. It was hard work, but to be fair to Lord and Lady Clinton they gave jobs for life and when for example my Grandad retired, he was able to continue living in his family house for a peppercorn rent.

My grandparents were both very sharp, but both worked from the age of 12/14 to put food on the table. So no opportunities for betterment. My Dad is very clever, but there was no way his parents could afford the additional tuition for his 11 plus, so he left school at 14 to work as a labourer. My sisters and I were all recognised by our primary school teachers as being more than capable of going to the local grammar, but the bus there was £60 a term and the uniform £120. There was absolutely no way my parents could afford this. I spent much of my childhood growing up in a caravan in a field, but still achieved 11 As and A*s at GCSE (back then this was incredibly unusual).

The kids in my class who went to the grammar school and then went on to university were entirely the children of parents who had moved down from the South East. Their parents sold houses in London, bought what seemed like a mansion in Devon. They paid for their children to have additional tuition to pass the entrance exams, paid for them to do music, sports and language lessons. Supported them financially to go to university and do unpaid internships.

I don’t begrudge them this at all. If I had the means, I would do the same for my daughter.

But I hope it in some way explains why it’s not a “lack of aspiration” that holds people here back. The inequality in Devon and Cornwall is horrific and has gotten unbearably worse in the last 2 years. People recognise inner-city poverty and deprivation, but the poverty and inequality in Devon and Cornwall is statistically much worse. Consider that if you live in poverty in London, you at least have access to many universities and can continue to live at home rent free. If you grow up in Devon or Cornwall, your options for studying and living at home are much more limited. Most people born and bred here therefore earn minimum wage. Their parents weren’t home owners themselves (so no help with buying), but are now competing with people who have grown up in the South East with all the opportunities for social mobility there are there, with all the equity from their home ownership, with much higher wages etc.

I see it now again. The kids with the rich parents who moved down during the pandemic, now lining up a ton of extra-curricular activities so their child again gets the grammar school places. The local kids left behind to be laughed at as “lacking aspiration”. The parents in their cars that cost more than most people here will earn in 8 years. The wellies that cost more than my own car. The music, sports and language lessons that cost more than most parents receive in universal credit. Getting turfed out to live in B&Bs because your landlords selling up (for extortionate London prices) or turning your home into an air bnb. We’re not “unfriendly” or “insular”, we’re just utterly heartbroken.

For the record, I don't disagree with anyone saying that immigration is necessary. Clearly we do, but we also need immigration where people come in to do the work your children don't want to do, and then to move on up.

Ah sorry I was agreeing with you… my post was aimed at @XingMing ’s prejudices!

You lying saying when you say wealthy Londoners. Also like what other people saying, refugees not allowed to work.

Thing I linked yesterday.

poverty is higher in London than in any other region or country in the UK.

Also young people unemployment in London highest in UK.

@nosafeguardingadults i understanding that this is a topic you feel strongly about, but you’ve posted approx 30 comments now all saying exactly the same thing.

Found the information link.

49% of Londoners (aged 16 and over) in poverty are in work, higher than the rate in the rest of England (45%).

www.trustforlondon.org.uk/data/employment-rate-over-time-in-poverty/

Across a wide range of indicators, there is a gulf in outcomes between Londoners on low incomes and those who are better off, both in the capital and across the rest of the UK.

The proportion of people living in poverty in London almost doubles when housing costs are taken into account (rising from 16% to 27%).

This gap between before and after housing costs measures of poverty is much larger in the capital than in the rest of the country. For example, in 2019/20 the gap was 11 percentage points in London, compared to 4 percentage points in the rest of England.

This demonstrates the fact that the cost of housing is a much larger driver of poverty in London than in the rest of the country

There is a shortage of workers in London. For the first time in 40 years there lots of signs al over too offering casual as well as full time jobs. Anyway it is not a competition as to whether London or Cornwall is most deprived. Cornwall has a specific issue that the rich from the SE want to go down there and take second homes which does not happen in many other parts etc my mother's seaside village in Sunderland has houses going for around £50k to £70k - a house like the one in which my mother grew up and near the sea. You just don't get that in Cornwall which is why the thread has been started - that huge issue of the nice seaside places where rich people want to go being too expensive for locals.

Cos people keep lying and saying London less poverty than Cornwall and other places. They keep lying that things better for Londoners when maybe things getting bad for them but is not worse than London.

People keep lying so I'm replying with reality facts of the reality.

Maybe they’re not ‘lying’, maybe they’re just mistaken?

Xenia, shortage of workers in London is cos people can't afford to live there. Also wasn't me that made it competition. OP and other posters did that. They keep lying saying London better for poor people when it's worse.

mplaining rich people "take homes" in Cornwall. Londoners could say same thing about people like you but don't cos Londoners not unwelcoming and don't do pitchfork thing.

ReadyToMoveIt, think maybe you right for some of them so then good thing if I reply with reality so they learn their mistake.

Wasn't me bringing London into it. Was OP and some other people.

San Francisco has more homeless people than the whole UK, in one city. @nosafeguardingadults , just try life in Cornwall and then tell me how much worse life is in London. Have you ever been to Cornwall? Cornwall is the second poorest region in Europe. According to international statistics.

Quite seriously,@nosafeguardingadults , there really isn't anywhere available to rent in Cornwall, not for love or money.

London was always rich areas like Chelsea and Hampstead but until 30 years ago was same as Cornwall and seaside place near Sunderland and other places.

Was homes for poorer Londoners too. Families generations living in London same as other places.

Second home problem in London same as Cornwall. Only difference is worse in London. Maybe cos been happening longer time, 30 years maybe bit longer. Maybe also more people care more about non London places. Cos of lots of people believing the rubbish lie that Londoners all rich.

No one thinks Londoners are all rich. That would be mental.

Sorry if begining to get as bad as London. Don't wish same problems on anywhere else.

Think can't be as bad yet cos link says London worse homelessness and next is all urban places. Luton, Brighton, Manchester, Birmingham, but don't wish it on you to get as bad. Shouldn't be bad anywhere.

Shelter’s new report also reveals the areas across England where homelessness is most acute:

London comes out worst, with one in 53 people now homeless in the capital.

Outside of London, Luton is the area with the highest rate of homelessness with one in 66 people homeless.

One in 78 people are homeless in Brighton and Hove.

One in 81 people are homeless in Manchester.

In the Midlands, one in 96 people are homeless in Birmingham.

england.shelter.org.uk/media/press_release/274000_people_in_england_are_homeless_with_thousands_more_likely_to_lose_their_homes

Xing, sorry things bad in Cornwall. I don't wish London's suffering on anywhere else. Please don't say it's better in London though cos obviously it's not and is worse.

Not much of London was ever Chelsea and Hampstead, much more was Epping and Kilburn and the dodgy bits of Hammersmith, Islington, Brixton and Hounslow.

I hope you are not homeless, @nosafeguardingadults . But there's a problem here too.

I'm in bad unsafe situation cos of the housing problem. That's why I get so upset with the thread. I'm sorry it's personal experiences so upsetting.

Sorry for you too. Don't want bad housing problems to happen in Cornwall or anywhere. Wish wasn't happening anywhere. Very bad.

You’re really not understanding what we are saying.

nobody has said Cornwall or the south west has MORE poverty than london.

but it’s a DIFFERENT type of poverty with far less advantage around you to better yourself. Honestly until you live down here you don’t know what it’s like - it’s the different between (for example) poverty in Detroit and poverty in rural Mississippi or Louisiana.

i know plenty of people living in caravans or outbuildings, who live 2 hours+ drive from the nearest sizeable small city. It’s incomparable and I wish Londoners would just be quiet now and then - they’re so used to everything being about them they can’t understand when it isn’t.

It’s incomparable and I wish Londoners would just be quiet now and then - they’re so used to everything being about them they can’t understand when it isn’t.

You wish that then tell OP & others not to bring London into it. She and others are ones who brought London into it.

You right it's incomparable. Caravans? Yeah and in London slum beds in sheds. 1 in 53 Londoners homeless. Yeah where's the opportunities for them. Especially when London councils sending homeless out of London.

You think it so good in London, move to London for your kids "better opportunities". Hope you rich cos you & they big trouble if not.

Complete opposite btw. What's happening maybe in Cornwall now been happening in London about 30 years but nearly nothing in media. No big sympathy like what Cornish getting.

You double standards about everything. Thread started by OP bringing London into it then you complain Londoners replying. It's not Londoners that think everything about them. It's other way round. You're the ones bringing London into it.

Definitely incomparable. Look at housing wait list for Cornwall and then London. Domestic violence in Cornwall between 6 months to very most 2 years. And all allowed on list.

London, lots not even allowed on list and if on list, wait about 10 years.

So definitely incomparable. Massively worse for vulnerable Londoners.

More double standards also. Like with protest stuff. People like you saying it's not all about London despite being the ones what brought London into it. But when big disruption protest, you all say it's capital so needs to have it there. You want to have your cake and eat it.

Whatever anyway you think poor have better opportunities in London, move here. Better prepare your kids to move more than once cos if poor in London, lots of moving around homeless temp often 100s miles from London to Birmingham or Bradford so don't know how you think they can do "London opportunities".

You don't want to talk about London, don't talk about it. Wasn't Londoners that started speaking about London.