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Inequality in Devon and Cornwall

516 replies

GraceJonesBiggestFan · 04/05/2022 09:59

So there have been a lot of threads about moving to the South West recently. Many including people who have moved down and criticised the local people for being insular or lacking aspiration. Many also including comments from people like me who are offended at the suggestion and have tried to explain why local people might feel incredibly upset at the awful inequality in Devon and Cornwall, and frustrated with the lack of empathy shown by people who’ve moved down with a ton of money.

So I thought I’d break it down on a new thread, so it’s not something personal against individual posters seeking advice.

The TLDR is this www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-61241981

My family have lived within the same 2 villages for over 500 years. In that time they were all collectively employed by the local landowner (Clinton Devon Estates, in various iterations over the years). They all worked as farm labourers, domestic service, blacksmiths etc. They never owned property because a) they would never have earned enough and b) they had housing provided as part of their remuneration. It was hard work, but to be fair to Lord and Lady Clinton they gave jobs for life and when for example my Grandad retired, he was able to continue living in his family house for a peppercorn rent.

My grandparents were both very sharp, but both worked from the age of 12/14 to put food on the table. So no opportunities for betterment. My Dad is very clever, but there was no way his parents could afford the additional tuition for his 11 plus, so he left school at 14 to work as a labourer. My sisters and I were all recognised by our primary school teachers as being more than capable of going to the local grammar, but the bus there was £60 a term and the uniform £120. There was absolutely no way my parents could afford this. I spent much of my childhood growing up in a caravan in a field, but still achieved 11 As and A*s at GCSE (back then this was incredibly unusual).

The kids in my class who went to the grammar school and then went on to university were entirely the children of parents who had moved down from the South East. Their parents sold houses in London, bought what seemed like a mansion in Devon. They paid for their children to have additional tuition to pass the entrance exams, paid for them to do music, sports and language lessons. Supported them financially to go to university and do unpaid internships.

I don’t begrudge them this at all. If I had the means, I would do the same for my daughter.

But I hope it in some way explains why it’s not a “lack of aspiration” that holds people here back. The inequality in Devon and Cornwall is horrific and has gotten unbearably worse in the last 2 years. People recognise inner-city poverty and deprivation, but the poverty and inequality in Devon and Cornwall is statistically much worse. Consider that if you live in poverty in London, you at least have access to many universities and can continue to live at home rent free. If you grow up in Devon or Cornwall, your options for studying and living at home are much more limited. Most people born and bred here therefore earn minimum wage. Their parents weren’t home owners themselves (so no help with buying), but are now competing with people who have grown up in the South East with all the opportunities for social mobility there are there, with all the equity from their home ownership, with much higher wages etc.

I see it now again. The kids with the rich parents who moved down during the pandemic, now lining up a ton of extra-curricular activities so their child again gets the grammar school places. The local kids left behind to be laughed at as “lacking aspiration”. The parents in their cars that cost more than most people here will earn in 8 years. The wellies that cost more than my own car. The music, sports and language lessons that cost more than most parents receive in universal credit. Getting turfed out to live in B&Bs because your landlords selling up (for extortionate London prices) or turning your home into an air bnb. We’re not “unfriendly” or “insular”, we’re just utterly heartbroken.

OP posts:
nosafeguardingadults · 09/05/2022 02:46

It's you Cornish and other seaside rural places making it all about you. Not all people there but you on this thread. I was in refuge in what is called by media deprived northern town. Don't see people from there moaning the amount I see cornwall or Suffolk or Norfolk type people doing.

After London, most homelessness is Luton, Brighton, Birmingham, Manchester. Lots of poverty those places but the moaning is so much from Cornwall and Lakes and rural places.

Not saying all people like that but cheek saying it's Londoners thinking all about them when OP and other people on thread and other threads are the ones bringing London into it.

nosafeguardingadults · 09/05/2022 03:34

Think best if I hide those thread cos know posting a lot and too upsetting cos personally suffered from very very very bad situation in London. Bad for me to keep posting cos don't want to be bad person doing stereotypes about Cornish just cos some people on here want to do ignorant stereotypes about London.

Know not everyone in Cornwall or other seaside places same as some of people on thread. People like OP and person who I just been replying to and the person who was racist who said refugees more privileged than Cornish. Know they not same as all of you in Cornwall.

Sorry things where you are beginning to be like what's happening in London for about 30 years. Don't wish it on other places.

Other reason hiding thread is realise maybe flag to bull thing like people who just enjoy being spiteful about Londoners going to be coming on so know healthier to ignore if that happens. Reality obvious to anyone who sees the truth.

Think London better for poor, come and find out. Not the rich life places. Come and do minimum wage in London and have your kids go into one room temp for years often long way out of London. Find out the opportunities they have. Opportunities for lots of eviction, foodbanks, gang pressure, homelessness.

In future, if you don't want London mentioned, don't mention it.

sst1234 · 09/05/2022 07:14

I’m sure it’s already been said, but if people don’t get out of small town mentality, then how they better themselves. Many moving from London to Cornwall or buying second homes there probably migrated to London from elsewhere in the first place. The world is larger than a few sq miles.

ReadyToMoveIt · 09/05/2022 07:24

I’ve seen the word ‘London’ so many times on this thread that it doesn’t look like a real word anymore.

Organictangerine · 09/05/2022 07:55

nosafeguardingadults · 09/05/2022 02:46

It's you Cornish and other seaside rural places making it all about you. Not all people there but you on this thread. I was in refuge in what is called by media deprived northern town. Don't see people from there moaning the amount I see cornwall or Suffolk or Norfolk type people doing.

After London, most homelessness is Luton, Brighton, Birmingham, Manchester. Lots of poverty those places but the moaning is so much from Cornwall and Lakes and rural places.

Not saying all people like that but cheek saying it's Londoners thinking all about them when OP and other people on thread and other threads are the ones bringing London into it.

Are you kidding about northerners complaining?!

if you ask most people the most deprived places in the U.K., they will say the north or london

even though it’s the SW in many measures

honestly just leave the thread if it pains you so much to think about other areas

im sorry for your bad experience but that doesn’t mean you get to shut down conversation that is about unrelated matters

WhatsHoppening · 09/05/2022 08:13

@nosafeguardingadults im sorry you’ve had such a tough time but you’re seriously projecting. By your logic if London is so bad why don’t you just move to Cornwall or Devon for a lovely idyllic life? Because it’s not that easy and life doesn’t work like that.

Daftasabroom · 09/05/2022 08:56

We got turned down to house a Ukrainian refugee family because they didn't drive and there is virtually no public transport.

transformandriseup · 09/05/2022 09:07

I think I am going to just ignore these threads in the future as they always end up same way and I don't think anyone is particularly right or wrong and there is no ideal solution to the problem. I hate anyone suggest life is idyllic here just based on location but it's wrong to make assumptions about other places too. If people want to remain living in Cornwall they will find a way, maybe through inheritance, living in caravans on their parents land or maybe we will see the likes of the Porthtowan Ghetto springing up again (was very close to me growing up). Those with no help will probably move away. News sites like Cornwall Live don't help by bringing the situation up at least once a day, I think I will unfollow them too.

OversBo · 09/05/2022 09:31

This thread is a bit frustrating because it doesn’t focus much on solutions. I don’t think the housing shortage is anything to do with overpopulation. There are plenty of homes. Near me there are 275 Airbnbs but only 4 homes to rent on a long let. This is a huge problem.

The pub can’t get staff and is sometimes closed because of shortages, the village shop can’t get staff, in home care is impossible for the elderly, because there is nowhere for people doing these important but low waged roles to live. With the mounting cost of petrol, the wages won’t support a long drive to work from an area with a better supply of rental homes.

The solution is to tax second homes and airbnbs more than currently and or require retrospective planning permission for holiday lets, with scope for planners to turn down permission for change or use without it easily being overturned by a court if the ratio of short lets to long lets in a defined area is not 1:1.

Elsie2022 · 09/05/2022 09:51

Give local councils power to ban Airbnb and neighbours can report suspected violators.

Second homes would be charged 300% council tax and any new holiday homes need planning permission in order to be used for holiday lets.

I think the house price rise would still persist due to Londoners wanting to move down though! But at least they would be living and contributing to local economy.

Daftasabroom · 09/05/2022 12:10

Our parish has 2500 permanent residents, it has almost 400 Air BnBs, heaven knows how many largely empty second homes and managed holiday properties. Right Move has one three bed property for rent at £1500, the NLW is £1544 before tax and NI. Further afield there are eight rental properties including 3 HMO's within a half hour drive or one hour bus journey.

Hounslow had 270,000 permanent residents, it has the same number of Air BnBs and 168 properties to let at less than £1500 pcm.

We do not have a housing shortage, we have an affordability and access crisis.

woodhill · 09/05/2022 12:28

Hounslow is grim though imo

Xenia · 09/05/2022 18:26

Although no one hires airbnbs in outer London really. I live out here in zone 5 outer London and if someone were coming to London they wuold want an airbnb in London eg my daughter at one point between tenancies let hers out on that basis (Maida Vale area) whereas I looked at it for my son's house at the very end of a tube line beyond M25 and just about no one wanted an airbnb there.

Elsie2022 · 09/05/2022 18:39

@Xenia I have seen a flat in my block (zone 3 north london) on airbnb. Not everyone visits london to do the usual tourist things. Airbnb is ideal for orthodox jewish tourists as they can't use keycards on shabbat and need cooking facilities to keep food warm overnight (as they can't cook on shabbat) and they would also like to be within walking distance of a synagogue which are mainly in suburban london. There are kosher hotels but they are probably quite expensive (and rarer)! Airbnb is banned in my home country and when my orthodox mother in law visited and stayed in a hotel (aparthotels would have cost thousands), this caused no end of trouble. So even though I don't use airbnb, i can see the advantages of airbnb over hotels even in my local area. however, none of these considerations trump the need for local people to afford their own homes, they are more important than the tourists.

AProperStinging · 09/05/2022 19:56

Xenia · 09/05/2022 18:26

Although no one hires airbnbs in outer London really. I live out here in zone 5 outer London and if someone were coming to London they wuold want an airbnb in London eg my daughter at one point between tenancies let hers out on that basis (Maida Vale area) whereas I looked at it for my son's house at the very end of a tube line beyond M25 and just about no one wanted an airbnb there.

This might be true where you are but I live in zone 3/4 and we have loads of Airbnbs here.

OversBo · 10/05/2022 15:24

This popped up - apparently there are only 135 long let rental properties available in the whole of Cornwall! I don’t know how she came to those figures but that’s shocking if true.

vm.tiktok.com/ZML7QRWP1/?k=1

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