Made wrong move out of London. Help me get it right second time...

[backtothegrindstone]

The title says it all really. We moved out of London nearly 2 years ago to Dorking in Surrey. Its a pretty nice town, but we realised fairly quickly that it just wasn't the right fit for us, and after a lot of soul searching, we've decided that we'd like to move again whilst the kids are still young enough to get over it, with the aim of finding somewhere we can call home for good. There's nothing massively wrong with Dorking, but neither of us can imagine spending the rest of our lives here. There's just too many small elements missing and when you add them all together it makes one big reason not to stay. But I'm terrified of moving again and making the same mistake again. And there are just so many places we could go that I just don't know where to start. I'm hoping people could give me some ideas for places that might be a good fit for us, so I can start looking again?

We were really happy in London as we had a good circle of friends and a nice house, but we didn't really go into central London anymore and spent more and more time in our local neighbourhood. As more and more of our friends started to move out we had less and less reasons to stay and wanted a less hectic lifestyle for our boys. Now we've left, we are fairly sure we don't want to move back to London, but the move out has made us realise that there are a few 'city' things we can't live without that we're just not finding in Dorking. I'm hoping we can find at least most of them somewhere a bit greener and cleaner than London.

So negatives about Dorking for us have been that it's just a little too 'countrysidey' for us. We don't ride horses or have a dog or go mountain biking and we don't really feel like we quite fit in here. We've found the high street just a bit lacking in nice clothes shops and restaurants (especially non-chain restaurants, ideally ones that do brunch!), and it feels like a lot of stuff has closed down even in the 2 years we've been here. We've also really struggled to find a suitable house to buy here (we're looking for a 4+ bedroom detached period house with a decent sized garden within walking distance of the mainline station).

Ideally we're looking to move to a reasonably pretty and leafy 'commuter' town within an hour commute of London (preferably from a station with a minimum of 2 trains an hour) where you don't have to drive to do everyday stuff. Essentials include a supermarket, some decent cafes for brunch and lunch, some nice family friendly pubs, a private gym with a pool nearby, maybe a few decent boutiques and some facilities for kids like parks, playgrounds etc. Oh, and decent schools are a must. Other awesome bonuses would be access to Uber, a reasonable selection of takeaways, some decent bars/pubs and maybe a cinema.

Our house budget is reasonably health, and we're happy to go back within the M25 as long as it still feels green and leafy.

Am I asking the impossible?

Thanks @BlueSkiesLies and @Pidgythe2nd but as I've said already, we were finding we couldn't manage the driving we had to do to get into and out of London for work from there as the traffic was too bad. Sometimes it could take 2 hours to get through Croydon to get home after a meeting. Hence why we moved to nearer the m25, and why we need somewhere near the m25 bit with good rail links. Some of the towns mentioned here have trains into London that take little longer than it did from zone 3 so with the massive decrease in driving time on 'out of london' meeting days, would give us a much better quality of life than we had in London. Also where I lived in as London it was nice but definitely not leafy.

*it was I mean

I think the central problem is that to sustain a buzzing high street with independent shops & cafes & boutiques you need a relatively high, wealthy population, either permanent or drawing from the surrounding countryside. So you either settle for a large town like TWells, or you have to go further out (I think what you want is a Bridport, but not in West Dorset!).

Definitely sounds like Winchester would suit you

Sorry, i dont think you'll find anything that ticks all your boxes

the 'souless dormitory suburbs' in zone 5/6 and commuter towns with identikit high streets - surbiton, bromley, hitchin.. sevenoaks beaconsfield are where you can get 25min fast trains (which still make for 1 hour commute if you work out door to door and rush hour frequencies - can be slow in e.g. Sutton, Beaconsfield). Nicer detatched houses are still more than your budget in these places too so you dont get much more house (vs a Dulwich semi) for your money

The leafy london hoods that can support indie shops/cafes.. Richmond, wimbledon, hampstead, blackheath and likes - would need to go well beyond anyones budget for detatched with sizeable garden.

The buzzy market towns or cities within an hour of London that have their own distinct culture, cathedral, uni/economy.. tunbridge wells, canterbury, winchester, cambridge, guildford...arent really 1 hour commutes and nice detatched houses will likely be further away from the smoke of city centre.

surrey set.. weybridge, cobham, are a bit stepford wife for me..

Frankly, i think all high streets are struggling, even in more affluent parts

JooJo I have a friend in Suitton and been there quite a few times - always used to address postcards to Sutton, Surrey, but possibly it has become a borough of London recently - but in essence it still has a Surrey feel/character (nicer, less snobby, compared to some of Surrey). Yes the High St is uninspiring but useful/practical and genearlly fine but like OP, to me it lacks the indie cafes/shops and proper artisan coffee. I'd still prefer Sutton to Dorking - still nice big park / lavander field even close by, and many more shops on HIgh st., and a quicker train to London.

OP, Sutton is mothing like Croydon! no concrete/noise/urban jungle, it's suburban and quite traditional in its residential parts.
And yes, that's what I said re Dorking - great countryside but the rown bit dreary.
I thought Brighton has changed - I haevn't been for years, with so many Londoners migrating there, thought that it sort of grew up a bit - but saounds like still bit too edgy. Camden on sea, haha. What about the suburbs/Hove? Isn't Preston park area leafy and with cafes etc? But anyway it's not relevant to thread as such.

Op, I think you 'll need to increase the commute a bit as some people are saying, as that's the easier compromise, by the sound of it. What about Berkhamsted?

sorry for typos, Jo, incl your 'name' - way too late to be typing

There's a lot of doom and gloom comments here! Actually, I'm finding some really nice places out there with houses we can afford, and I'm not finding it particularly identikit actually. There's a lot of places with their own personalities out there. I know there are a lot of people following as they plan to make the big move, so want to keep this positive! So far I really quite like: Cheam (small highstreet but really nice and well equipped, and super close to Sutton but also close to Kingston and very very good train links to London. Easy to get to the M25. More suburban but still very cute and leafy), Reigate (awesome high street, loads of great clothes shops, bars, cafes etc, reasonable trains, nice park, very family friendly. Would move there in a heartbeat if my not-very-darling-ex-husband didn't live there), Claygate (has the feel of a real country village and has good trains. Small but well located. Nice houses). East Molesey (wonderful riverside area that's so vibrant and lively, though the housing stock is a bit bland. Trains are a bit slow and infrequent but could walk to Esher where trains are quicker. Really loved the Bridge Road area. Though the lifestyle around the river there was lovely with lots of kids out rowing and riding bikes and paddleboarding etc. If only the main high street was better, this would have been an instant winner), Thames Ditton (high streets quite small but really sweet and pretty - feels a bit Dickensian!. Nice houses around the area.) and Walton on Thames (probably a bit big for us but really nice, great trains, reminds me of Wandsworth). As we've got a year to get this sorted, I will definitely look further afield too but there is some strong appeal to staying in Surrey as it would mean we could continue to commute the kids to school if we can't get the in anywhere straight away, and also because most of our friends are around Surrey and SW London.

@JoJoSM2 @CatAndHisKit I've just taken a quick trip to Sutton in my lunch break. Wow, not at all what I was expecting. And so pleasantly surprised! I mean, definitely more than it's fair share of bingo and pound shops but also Flannels????!!! Wow! Is this one of those places I should be keeping secret?

How about Cranbrook, it's gorgeous there. Not sure about location for you?

High Street, Cranbrook, Kent
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-62665995.html

Otherwise Faversham or Whitstable?

I can't see where you lived originally OP, but what about moving further in - back to a suburb, like Twickenham, Wimbledon, Surbiton, Earlsfield, Kingston? or somewhere like that? Somewhere leafy but with all the amenities you want. With a town centre, but close to the M25 too?

We are considering suburbs but only the outer ones @AnnaNimmity - Earlsfield way too far in and built up. Not keen on Kingston, too big and busy. Surbiton maybe though I find the high street still just feels very much like London to me. I think we're really only looking at those places that are at the absolute furthest reaches of London just before the country starts. When I said leafy I didn't really mean streets with trees on them surrounded by main roads, I meant very very close to the countryside do I don't think inner suburbs really work for me. I don't really love Dorking but I absolutely love the hills and the running trails and having box hill on our doorstep.

Twickenham, Hampton and Teddington are on my list of places to visit though.

I'm glad Sutton was a pleasant surprise Really looking forward to seeing what you'll find in riverside locations.

If we move there I owe you a coffee @JoJoSM2

OP, Twickenham is also too much in, as you put it - too busy and don't forget the rugby!
Teddington - again it's suburban, HIgh street quite nice, I think it's similar to Surbiton but larger.
Ham is more like what you describe but no immediate station there.
Shame that Berkhamsted is the wrong side of london for you - that's close to t he countryside but the town is nicer than Dorking.
Haha, yes Sutton is nothing like you thought (i.e. like Croydon!!) - Id still say the High st is lacking in character quite a bit, and on w/ends very busy, but it has many advantages as an area overall.

Teddington looks sweet and villagey on street view so definitely will check it out- probably this weekend. We loved the riverside atmosphere when we went to East Molesey. I think the activities available on the river really suit us too so it's probably a strong contender. I liked Surbiton too but it's not villagey at all on the high street. It just has the feel of a general London high street -functional but not pretty except around the clock towery bit. There seems to be another prettier high street too but I think overall it's probably not villagey enough for us. It's been a great exercise this, as I'm realising that perhaps a pretty villagey suburb of London with a bigger town nearby suits us very well.

When you're in Teddington, check out the Lensbury - the facilities are fab. The waiting list for membership used to be literally years but no idea what it's like these days.

And re East Molesey - it's there a sewage treatment plant? Not sure about that one, but in general the whiff can travel for a couple of miles on a bad day.

OP, I know what you mean about Surbiton High Street, it is pretty dreary. However, running parallel, closer to the river, is Maple Road, which has all the non-chain coffee shops and bars and restaurants, so do take a look along there if you're back in the vicinity.

@JoJoSM2 I went to Teddington yesterday. It's really lovely. I loved the river and the canal nearby and the high street was really sweet. But... there's always a but isn't there... but weirdly I wonder if it's just a bit too nice for us. A bit 'west London'. I seem to have a spirit for self sabotage - why on earth wouldn't I want to live somewhere so lovely! I think there was something just too urban about the 20 odd people on laptops in Starbucks 😂. I used to live in West Norwood which was lovely but rather 'real' and Teddington reminded me of Northcote road or Balham- nice to visit but wouldn't want to live there. Again, can't quite put my finger on why except perhaps there were a few too many blow dries, gorgeous little spotless children in public school uniforms with straw hats and women in white jeans - I'd always feel like the poor relation with my sticky kids and unwashed hair. I think maybe I need to go back and give it a second look. Though it looks like we also couldn't afford a whole lot of house there anyway. I did really warm to Thames Ditton though.

Lol, I’ve never found Teddington that fancy. But then I did live just round the corner from Northcote Rd and spent lots of time round Kings Rd 🤣
I suppose Teddington does have a lot going for it (cute high street, the Lensbury, proximity to the shops in Kingston) but personally we found it a bit built up (not dissimilar to lots of zone 2-3 places), public transport links not great and the Kingston gyratory at rush hour isn’t pretty...

So we’re away from the river but get to bomb down to the coast with our SUPs and kayaks on nice days.

Do share your impressions of Thames Ditton.

OP....

Hampton Hill next I reckon!

Where do you live now @JoJoSM2? That's one of the things I love about being in Surrey, is being able to get to the coast so quickly. I drove through Hampton Hill yesterday too @goldpendant. Didn't make too much of an impact though. Maybe I missed something? I wonder if I"m fundamentally uncomfortable with being North of the Thames?

Thames Ditton whilst being small had a lovely village green and the high street is so sweet. It really feels like a rural village but with the river right there. It was lovely. And even though there isn't a lot there, it's so close to Kingston for shopping.

I'm still leaning towards Cheam village or Reigate at the moment though. Cheam has a good balance of glamour and grit which I think suits me well. Nice and close to both Sutton and Kingston for shopping but gorgeous, self contained and with lovely large affordable housing. Nonsuch park, David Lloyd and station (with very regular sub 40 minute trains to London) all within walking distance of the houses. Library, cafes, supermarkets, etc all on the little high street. Its sort of perfect. Maybe not the most chic place to live, but it would serve our purposes really well. One of the things I really hate about where we are now is that most of the kids at our school (which is a lovely school to be fair) are driven in from surrounding villages, so there's very little social life (both for them and for me) of walking to and from school with other people, going to the park after school, popping to people's houses for coffee after drop off etc that we had in London. I think the kids are really missing out on playing out with local kids at the moment, and will miss out on being able to go round to their friends houses on their own when they are old enough. Cheam is very compact and relatively suburban with lots of family housing so hopefully there would be more of that there. Reigate is similar in that most people live within walking distance of the main school due to small catchment area. I'm sure that's the same in lots of places but I've still yet to see anywhere else we'd get a nice house we can afford with all the things we want within walking distance.

And I think you're right @JoJoSM2, Teddington did feel a bit more built up than I'd like. It still very much felt like London. Lots of rows of terraced houses and semi's. It could have been Battersea or Clapham Junction or anywhere really. If it wasn't for the river and the parks nearby it wouldn't have been somewhere to consider at all. I also saw a lot of planes very close by and whilst there wasn't a lot of noise yesterday, I'm quite aware that flightpaths vary and also weather/cloud makes a huge difference to the noise. We're south of Dorking and some days we don't hear any planes and other days its like rockets are taking off outside our house.

Really interested in your Cheam insights. I've always liked the high street there but never actually stopped to explore properly.