Would private schools expect us to remortgage before offering a bursary?

[Tootandcomeinagain]

Hi - seen a lot here about bursaries and wondered if anyone has remortgaged for school fees - we live in a 700K home (all paid off) in London. Salaries 90K gross. Potential school fees are 12K a term so 72K a year for 2. Would we qualify for a part bursary or would we be expected to remortgage? Do they look at the home first? Id be interested in any bursar views as there have been a few posting?

I do find it a little sad that parents seem to think that the only way to academic success is through independent schools, tutoring or grammars. Supportive and engaged families which are there for the child have come out as the main factor for success in exams in studies.

@RatherBeOnVacation I agree except on the tutoring front. DD had a poor maths teacher in year 11. She was in the top set but the teacher moved on to new topics too quickly, before she had "got" the previous topic and her grades started to drop. She only had a tutor for a few weeks. He basically explained more fully and at DD's pace the new concepts so that she could move on to the next one. With a subject like maths where you build on previous learning it is important to understand the basics before you move on to the next level.

DD's grades when up from B's to A stars and she achieved an A* very comfortably.

Honestly, I think it would be madness to remortgage your house in your 50s to fund this. You simply can't afford it
London has some excellent secondary schools. It outperforms the rest of the country for a variety of reasons. I am sure there is a paper called 'The London Effect' that explains it.

Wouldn’t say 700k is very modest for London.
Im a teacher and everyone I work with lives in houses/flats less than that. Ours was just under that and mortgage is over 2.5k / month

I really thought bursaries were there to help her families that got into financial difficulties when their children were in critical parts of the School process.

I’m very surprised to learn that they get offered to families before they’ve even started at the school.

What basis is that? Seems grossly unfair to the people that are scrimping and scraping to pay the fee fees

These days at most schools they are restricted to current students as so many families can’t afford the fees plus VAT, so the school helps the child finish that phase of education.

But at wealthy schools with large endowments they have had donations over the years specifically to enable children who can’t otherwise afford it to attend the school.

Usually those bursaries will be offered to applicants who would be a credit/asset to the school, ie are likely to excel academically/at sport/music etc, there’s an argument that subsidising places for high fliers raises standards generally, it’s a good influence/example for the other kids and it boosts the school’s reputation.

What an astonishing waste of money...

Difficult to say nowadays with much less relative funding going to schools these days and higher numbers of pupils needing extra support.
There is a thread on this running in Education currently. Plus the not infrequent posts by teachers about pupil behaviour and the huge challenges they face in their jobs.
I don’t know whether Bridget Phillipson’s extra 6000 teachers ever materialised.

why are you so bitter and resentful

@Tootandcomeinagainwe paid for 2 DC from year 11 to 13. Fees started off about 9k pa in 2006 and by the time the young left Y13 they had risen to £16k. This was all pre VAT added. Fee inflation always higher than RPI inflation eg 7.5% vs RPI 2.3%.
Our joint income was much higher than your and that was 8 years ago.
Theres no way I would be taking out a mortgage for school fees.
If I had my time again I would send to state school and pay for extra tuition. I wished we had saved for their house deposits instead.

Could you please share a link to that discussion ? I have had a look in the education section and wasn’t able to find
I have noticed that our state primary isn’t offering as much as they used in many areas. Shame

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5496860-are-neurotypical-kids-being-left-behind?page=1

This is the one I was referring to - the discussion may have moved on, as I haven’t been following it.

@bigsoftcocks it depends on the school really, we received a small bursary at our current school when we first started. It was small but enough to sway the decision when private education wasn't even on the radar. Kids have been top in key subjects/sports throughout and so have added to the school in several ways.

There are a number of children on full bursaries but they are now struggling with the extra costs that come with private/being the poor relative at the school.

Following advice here, I spoke to a few bursars who did say to disclose everything and apply, but some said the equity will be key so we arent expecting anything. However others have said it can be dependant on how much they want you. A friend's son aced every 11 plus exam/indies and the schools were willing to get him at any cost because he would have been a strong pupil there

lots of London schools offer transformational bursaries to pupils from low-income families.

Our household income is approximately £220k (excluding any bonuses DH gets). We can only afford it for our DC as their grandparent is paying a 1/3 of the fees aka one term per year.

Are there any family members who could assist OP?

Apart form the day I think it’s madness to remortgage for a private school I do understand the want to do what you think is the best for your child however what if something happens to your jobs or you get unwell and can’t work if you can’t afford the new mortgage the bank will take the house
You are 50/in your 50s, your health is not guaranteed from one day to the next at this age

@Rewaw no family to contribute. We have decided to be upfront and see what happens. Im also looking at a new role which should give me more funds to fill the gap.

To those who query if its worth it, it has been for us. Small class sizes, children thriving. The parents are engaged, no issues with disruptive kids. We aren't impacted but lots of sen provision which is why many parents have their children here.

Firstly - they didn’t ask.

Secondly, there are many reasons to send your child to one of the top London private schools if you can possibly make the finances work.

Way better facilities for the arts, proper sporting facilities with education from actual athletes, most of these schools have proper theatres with directors on staff. Kids in most comps couldn’t dream of accessing this stuff. They have powerful alumni networks which can set kids up in pretty much any field they choose, from tailored programmes to a roster of internships to enhance CV.

Not to mention a strong network of kids who will themselves be from well connected families and go on themselves to be powerful and influential one day.

I’m not saying it’s right or optimal, but it’s how the establishment works in this country and paying for one of a specific list of schools will get your kid into that world. If it was just about better grades or careers obviously no one would pay it. The OP isn’t stupid.

Well the VAT raised from all of the hundreds of thousands of kids who are still in private school more than covers that. I educate privately but don’t mind paying taxes.

Just like you don’t pay tax on water or carrots but you do on chocolate and wine. Consumer choice if you want the posh version. If you can’t afford it, stick to the carrots.

Would you consider a school outside of London? The fees you mention are astronomical. We’re Surrey / Hampshire border, and the fees at DC’s private school are £21k a year - granted it’s not a ‘top London’ private school - but it is a lot less than what you’ve mentioned.

I can understand why you would do this. I went to a private school with an assisted place in the 90s. We got much more support than just 25pc and no remortgaging but it was still a huge sacrifice.However it was a rocket booster for me - first gen at top uni, good jobs etc.

However state schools were pretty dire at the time and I didn’t live any where near London.
Today i also really the impact of no family wealth behind me - only got mortgage in late 30s. Won’t inherit, have had to always work full time, despite children. I also didn’t really have any connections at school to help me in my chosen field as everyone did medicine, accounting etc.

So I would think really carefully. My DC are doing great in a London state school that has a very mixed intake.

Our tutors say they are ahead or at the same level as their prep peers in some ways.
The preps are doing more advanced stuff, which we are doing with tutor. The state schools are pretty is excellent at drilling the important fundamentals. They have fantastic opportunities- chess club, language club, singing with top choirs and teachers - all for free or a few pounds.
And there are loads of really good London secondaries.

Class or ethnic differences on London are more accepted than in other places. Everyone is different in some way! And a non middle class intake, doesn’t mean the risk of bullying is any greater.

If it was somewhere like St Paul’s or City of London I would consider your route. If not, unsure if it is honestly worth it.

They aren’t, they are hoping for a full bursary (which does exist, one of my colleagues is a nurse on around £60k and her son went to Dulwich College for free).

Wow I’m really surprised this would be considered potential bursary material. It seems very unfair that someone with higher income but less assets would be expected to fund someone who is sitting in a 700K home.

The level of entitlement…?! Shocking!

Hi, not a full bursary, a partial bursary, say 25%

Have you sat and done the finances of this? Even with a 25% bursary, I don’t understand how those level of fees are affordable on £90k, even without any mortgage payments. Is that £90k each or a household income of £90k? Do you have a large amount of savings?

As previously stated, our household is £220k basic, fees are £14k (£7k is paid by a relative), albeit we have a mortgage, but even that £14k has not been without sacrificing other lifestyle choices - I’m struggling to see how £54k of fees (after subtracting a potential 25% bursary), is feasible?