Would private schools expect us to remortgage before offering a bursary?

[Tootandcomeinagain]

Hi - seen a lot here about bursaries and wondered if anyone has remortgaged for school fees - we live in a 700K home (all paid off) in London. Salaries 90K gross. Potential school fees are 12K a term so 72K a year for 2. Would we qualify for a part bursary or would we be expected to remortgage? Do they look at the home first? Id be interested in any bursar views as there have been a few posting?

@Tootandcomeinagain I used to audit bursary applications and yes, having a £700k asset owned outright would be taken into account in a bursary assessment and I am always amazed by people who think it wouldn’t be.

It’s not a straightforward yes or no though. A whole raft of other things are taken into consideration such as how much are you contributing to your pension. Yes, we would expect you to pay the minimum required for your scheme, but making overpayments is seen as spare cash that could be going towards fees.

We would review your bank and credit card statements to see where your salary is going. Do you have big repayments on a fancy car loan and could drive a cheaper car? One family had payments to EasyJet every half term. Turns out they were flying to Europe to stay in the £3m Villa they owned jointly with two siblings after inheriting it but they failed to declare it as they didn’t think “it counted”. No they didn’t get a bursary.

There has also been a bit of a shift with bursaries where some schools are now tying them to scholarships. So you are only considered for a bursary if you excel in a scholarship area. They are moving to protect funds to support those already in the school who might be facing hardship - so they can finish the school year or if in the middle of GCSEs or A-levels then their education can be completed. They are also offering smaller bursaries to more people. Better to have four students paying 75% of fees than one paying zero.

Whilst no bursar would tell you to remortgage your property, what they will do is make some calculations that take into account the equity. At some schools they would assess only half the amount though - a 50% loan to property value is seen as reasonable. So the calculations would say you have £350k in assets you could access, not the full £700k. They would then make you on offer that takes it into account and it’s up to you to work out how you make it work financially.

Honestly though, I don’t think you can afford it. I’m not talking about putting money aside for them to buy houses etc when they are older instead. Just normal day to day life with two sets of secondary school private fees on top.

@RatherBeOnVacation thank you - this is very insightful. We have no car, very few holidays abroad ever - a very frugal life, but lucky enough to have paid our mortgage off. Remortgaging is a big step and will need to think hard about this.

@Tootandcomeinagainof course your decision is yours to make but I would say that if you’re already living such a frugal life, you won’t be able to pay to have your children fully participate in the education you aspire to for them.

After my divorce I couldn’t aspire to private education for my child. I’m sure it does have a depth and breadth that state cannot hope to achieve. I saw what friends’ children were doing at private and it was impressive.

BUT I earn reasonably well and over the years have paid privately for music tutors, specific subject tutors, I’ve taken her to different countries, to see Shakespeare, to the ballet. I was able to afford school trips abroad.

How will you deliver this cultural capital as a happy family if you’re scraping around for money? Do you not want to enjoy your children’s childhood yourself?

What is your pension provision like? You actually aren’t that far from access so if you were to remortgage, could you pay off from pension tax free lump sum?

You can only ask the question but I suspect they will take it into account. My school’s policy is quite clear that it does look at equity as well as income. Realistically you’d need a very high bursary and there might be other kids who are ‘more worthy’ of the big awards. Eg our school has fully funded education for some children from Ukraine, I suspect some of the teachers will have kids there on a partial bursary (even with fee reduction). All but the very richest of schools will be having to be very careful re bursaries now given the VAT situation.

@Bunnycat101 thank you, ill look into this. Currently we couldn't do it without say a 25-30% bursary. That would be sustainable throughout with luck.

Do you have untapped earning capacity? Once the DC are in secondary, could you both work full time and / or get promoted?

This is the issue. Why should anyone or the state fund your child, when you have that level of asset?

You can’t afford private school.

Bloody hell. My son goes to a private school and I’d be livid if I learned the bursaries that we contribute to were going to families who are sitting on 700k of assets. We give bursary families free uniform and heavily discounted school trips because money is so tight for them. They are not for the likes of you.

I will add. I had the privilege to work at an independent school that had places supported by a local charity. Those children needed everything to be paid for, including uniform, trips. Those families had nothing, despite both parents working. That education was life changing. These were not families that had several £100k in assets.

But what if like some of my best friends they fucked up academically (despite the best efforts of the school, they hadn't worked hard enough) and then they end up feeling like failures because they end up in "ordinary" jobs compared to their peers.
My friends would have had much better lives if their parents had paid their uni fees and given them a house deposit and they had done the same academically at a comp.

I really think your income is too much to even be eligible for bursary assistance, let alone owning the house.
Check with the Bursar to see what their requirements are.

Thank you everyone for their advice, we have decided just to apply to a few schools, and go through the bursary process anyway. If nothing comes of it, its fine. The dream is a partial bursary of say 25%, then that would make a move viable long term as its what we have now.

Thinking hard about it this week, we dont want to remortgage as thats the only asset we have (3 bed, London), plus already live a fair distance from the current school so even downsizing will mean moving further away. Its probably more like 500-600 in value, fees are 60K a year.

I genuinely can’t understand why you think it’s worth doing. Why don’t you spend 10k per child on extra lessons if you want them to do better academically? No remortgage. It’s insane to want to go into debt for this.

@Wallywobbles good question, and we will probably do this. I think we thought if we went to a more academic school, we would get the results anyway without tutoring, and feels annoying that we would have to pay for tutors as well as fees here. But yes, financially makes sense. The schools in question are far more in the league tables though.

The state would not fund the child at private school. The state only funds state schools. Around 43,000 more children now are in state schools since Labour decided to tax education. They are costing the state, i.e the taxpayer £8500 on average each per year to educate. Economic genius.

Unless you have 3x salary increase, and even then I’m not sure I’d view it as enough, you will need to work into your 80s to pay off an unnecessary mortgage. Can you really not see that it’s barking mad? It’d be cheaper to move country to one with a better education system. Seriously give your heads a massive shake. Put your kids into clubs where they mix with elites in sports, theatre whatever. But 10k thrown at the issue will be better for everyone than debt. I’d also say that the job market for people in their 50s is insanely bad. If either of you get made redundant for any reason you will not find work again.

Well it’s worth a try isn’t it, don’t ask don’t get!

At DD’s school they won’t even consider a new bursary for a salary more than 82k, never mind the assets (they also wouldn’t consider with your asset level regardless of salary!) but every school will have different rules.

Reading posts like these sadly makes me really unwilling to contribute to bursary funds at my dc's schools.

I wish there was an independent body that scrutinised how bursaries are awarded as have seen some very dubious decisions over the years.

You don’t appear to be able to afford private school, surely it’s better to go state then?

If you are in London, surely you have a decent state school option? Then just get some private tutoring.

We pretty much did what @Bunnycat101 suggested.
DD passed the exam and was offered a place at an academically selective independent school. We had to decline the place as we were refused a bursary.

We decided that we would boost DD's education with tutors should the need arise and use the money we didn't spend on fees to support her through university instead.

In the end she only needed a maths tutor to get through GCSE maths, she excelled at GCSE and A levels, achieved a first in a STEM degree and is now smashing her taught masters.

It meant that we could afford her school trip to New York and various holidays in the UK and abroad (no AI type holidays, we like a bit of culture as well as flopping by a pool).

Both my DC went to prep school. It set them up to learn. I would not risk your equity for a private school.
I did this as a 50 something and it really cost me. I had to take out a short mortgage ( they now go to 80 if you have pensions) but I can't replace that money as I fell ill and had caring responsibilities. My DS went to an outstanding state, our DD to a boarding school on a 50% scholarship.The bullying was rife and the expectation too much. Fwiw my son would educate his children in the private sector my daughter would not!

I do find it a little sad that parents seem to think that the only way to academic success is through independent schools, tutoring or grammars. Supportive and engaged families which are there for the child have come out as the main factor for success in exams in studies.

I have never tutored my children, not even for the 11+ grammar, (they had some CGP books so didn’t go into it blind though) and they achieved their potential. That’s not to say I wouldn’t tutor if they were struggling in a particular area, but it’s just never felt necessary.

As my eldest approaches university admissions it has become abundantly clear that a private education actually closes doors. An awful lot of work experience programmes now prioritise state school children (the reality being that those from private don’t get it). If you’re at a super academic school but your grades lower than others then that is treated negatively on your applications. Arguably far better to be significantly outperforming your peers at a state school.

There’s also the constant cloud of the potential for independent schools to close. The London bubble of top academic schools is somewhat protected, but the odds are your state school isn’t going to close anytime soon.

If you’re at a super academic school but your grades lower than others then that is treated negatively on your applications. Arguably far better to be significantly outperforming your peers at a state school.
@RatherBeOnVacation yes I’ve recently found this to be the case, when speaking to someone involved in admissions at Cambridge. They will look at your grades against the average at your school and weight for or against accordingly. Also yes, I work for a big global company and all our work experience and apprenticeship placements are offered to state school students.