Would private schools expect us to remortgage before offering a bursary?

[Tootandcomeinagain]

Hi - seen a lot here about bursaries and wondered if anyone has remortgaged for school fees - we live in a 700K home (all paid off) in London. Salaries 90K gross. Potential school fees are 12K a term so 72K a year for 2. Would we qualify for a part bursary or would we be expected to remortgage? Do they look at the home first? Id be interested in any bursar views as there have been a few posting?

@BayesLemon my son, as you put it, fucked up academically. Luckily we didn’t send him to private school because we wanted him to be in a high flying career and most of his friends didn’t go into the city, lots are just doing regular jobs, jobs in which they are happy. It’s all we want for our children, to be secure and happy. DS went to private school because he had dyslexia and he struggled at state school, he was also bullied and we pulled him out after he was told to hang himself or he’d be stabbed and we don’t live anywhere you’d deem as rough.

The youngest DC also goes to private school as we like it’s ethos, it’s smaller classes, they have heavily invested in the subjects she loves and excels at and is for more eloquent and confident, in an understated manner, than her peers who didn’t go to private school. But again, we just want her to thrive and ultimately be happy.

Us private school parents know it’s not jobs for the boys anymore and the headteachers are actually quite corporate now, far more interested in selling the school not relying on their wives to get involved (ours is female and we’ve never seen her husband so no idea whether he likes frills or not).

@JanefromLondon1, I'm not the poster who referred to "fucking up academically".

The person to take issue with is TallSturdyGirls, who made that comment in the course of criticising a post of mine. I'm actually in complete agreement with you!

Ooops sorry. That’s what you get from trying to do 10 things at once. I apologise.

you'd have to be insane to consider private school in your circumstances.

How have you got a paid off house already at that value with a combined salary of 90k?

@fartotheleftside we bought 25 years ago and ploughed every penny to paying it off.

How are you affording £54k per year (that’s if you even get a bursary) on £90k income?

£90k is approximately £63k after tax, leaving with you with only £9k for all bills, extras? This doesn’t make sense unless it’s £90k each or you’ve got savings or investments you haven’t mentioned.

😂 Sorry no input for the OP but I just chuckled at your last sentence (HT could be gay too...)

That's not quite right. It's more like £72K if the salaries are evenly distributed between the parents. And they don't have a mortgage.

That leaves £18K. This is £1500 per month. Assuming a modestly sized house and modest food bills, say £200 on council tax, £100 on insurance, £600 on food, £150 on utility bills, that leaves £450 a month. So this is very very tight indeed but possible if you pared all extras to the bone.

The big London schools won't expect a remortgage to fund school fees. More modest private schools would probably expect that so it's more sensible to go for somewhere with a larger bursary provision assuming the academic potential is there.

I'm not sure it is worth it in this situation. But that's another conversation.

Lots of private school teachers are on ~90k per household yet managed to send their DC to private schools on bursaries (less manageable now with VAT).

I'm on less than 90k but DC has been at private schools, with and without bursaries. Tough, but doable.

I honestly don't understand how people on 200-300k can't afford it unless they have three or more DC.

Private school costing £36k a year? I just don’t see how that’s possible unless you are living extremely frugally.

Lots of teachers get huge bursaries, my child’s school offers a minimum of 75% bursaries to staff.

As i said before, cook everything at home, i budget 50 per week for meals, no car, one holiday a year but europe. We dont drink or smoke anyway. Its really tight, im in my overdraft, but we make it work.

I do live frugally though probably not extremely :)
It was ~27k pre-VAT and scholarship plus bursary after, so never 36k.

The schools DC went to offer 50% to teachers as far as I know, good but not huge. Scholarships for external 11+ candidates were also up to 50%.

Similar here, though I do have a small car but no holidays as single parent and can't afford it.

£200 on the food budget adds another £400 to leftovers (good for you, I couldn't do it) so £850 to save towards a holiday and to pay for some extras.

this just sounds miserable for everyone involved

it’s financially irresponsible also

Even leaving £1,500 a month, I don’t see how it’s possible. I don’t know any families of 4 with £150 on utilities, gas and electric is probably that on its own. Then there’s water, internet, phones, petrol / travel, school extras like uniform, trips, lunches.

How about your child gets in (I’m assuming it’s the usual super-competitive 11+) but no bursary offered. Will they not be bitter at you making them work so hard ‘for nothing’?

I have two children, both in private schools
in London, £30k per child per year. However when you add day trips, theatre, three sports per year’s kits, weeks away to learn xyz, music lessons in school, lost uniform bits and school lunches, its more like £12k per term. If you are living frugally now, will they be happy to miss out on all these, that are scheduled in the school day/week, because there’s no more money to pay for them?

Exactly this. I think it’s completely worth it for our DC with SEN - I would even go as far as to say I think they may have had a mental health crisis in a state school. However, we can still have a nice life whilst paying the fees (I appreciate we also have grandparents support).

We spend less than £130 on gas, electricity and water combined in a small house, though there are only three of us. We are not cold or scrimping and not actively trying not to use gas, electric or water! Phones can be very cheap - the cheapest GiffGaff sim only plan is something like a fiver a month. Nobody needs the latest model and even those are sometimes available at discounts. My daughter had a new (but not the latest) phone a couple of years ago for less than £200. It does everything any other phone does.

You're right about internet and petrol (if they have a car). But if they are in London and looking at a sensible geographic area in relation to where they live travel for the children is free on buses and heavily discounted on the tube. The parents may well be able to work at home at least part of the time

Internet can be shopped around for. We currently have fast internet for £26 a month. Yes, it took a bit of negotiating but well worth the time. I think four (free but longish) phone calls in all.

I didn't think about uniform but there are usually secondhand items to be had. I think I spent less than £500 over DD's entire secondary school career, though she did not need as much as some other schools. Even at three times the price per child that sounds doable with some planning. Not sure how much lunches cost as DD's were included at her school.

Nobody went on all the residential trips. I don't think it would have been remarked upon or even noticed if someone hadn't gone on any. I appreciate the theatre trips might be compulsory but these were heavily discounted. I think around £25 per trip for us which I personally think is an absolute bargain for West End theatre, the National, the Royal Court etc.

I don't deny that it might be really difficult and involve a lot of planning and budgeting, and I am not sure I would want to do that if it meant really not having enough for some treats and stuff like music lessons etc (though music scholarships normally involve free lessons IME). In OP's shoes I'd be looking at the superselective London grammars if she is in striking distance for any of them.

I suppose the real answer is that none of us can really say what @Tootandcomeinagain would be eligible for since all schools have different rules, and her best bet is to contact the schools she is targeting and ask. Most will be happy to help, especially those who have lots of funds and are actively seeking to give bursaries.

OP, please feel free to DM me if you want to discuss in more detail what it is like having a child on a large bursary at a London school.

This is shocking to me though. Why should someone get a bursary just because they have a lower salary when their mortgage is paid off? They will be a lot richer in terms of assets than some paying out of their salary.

@Froschlegs that's really what I wanted to clarify on this thread, would we be expected to remortgage. But seems like we would, however we will still be transparent and apply.

They are massively unlikely to be richer in assets than people who have the funds to pay £30K school fees per year per child out of their income. You don't know why the mortgage is paid off (possibly an inheritance). And this is in London so a 700K house is very likely a two up two down which not many people able to afford to send their children to these schools are likely to be living in.

There are people on here with way higher salaries saying they could not afford to pay the fees without compromising their lifestyles. I bet their houses are worth a LOT more and will eventually be paid off even if they aren't yet. OP is obviously prepared to do without in some ways to secure her children the best education she can. For those on much higher salaries or with bigger houses it is absolutely their choice not to live in a 700K house and to prioritise spending on things other than education. There is nothing wrong with that either!

On 90K a year before tax, the OP is absolutely not able to fund 30K per year per child.

The purpose of a bursary is to enable children who would otherwise be unable to access education at that school to do so. It is not to leave the family worse off than they would otherwise have been. Any decent school OP applies to will make a judgment as to what OP needs to live a reasonable life and allocate bursary funds accordingly should her child or children qualify. If she has two children to pay for, this will be taken into account.

OP didn’t say it was from an inheritance. They could have invested the money and then paid for school fees out of the savings instead of paying the mortgage.

Our household income is more than OPs but we have far less of our mortgage paid off and our house is worth less. Why should we be deemed able to pay whereas someone who has spent more on a house be deemed eligible for a bursary?!