to feel a bit gutted that DS primary school is 80% full of chav roughneck parents....

[Boobalina]

I know I am going to get shot down here but hear me out. DS is in reception at our local school walking distance from our house. Various friends of ours (who all live in nicer parts of the city) children all go to their local schools which are ofsted 'outstanding' and full of middle class parents and kids. Now this is what you get when you cant afford to live in a nicer part of the city I know... but every now and then it really guts me. DS went to a very nice nursery and pre-school close to my work which was a bit posh and DD still goes there. But we couldnt afford to send DS there for primary school. His teachers seem really lovely, and really professional - its just some of the kids and parents there.

I went to a nice village primary school and then ended up going to a rather rough comp after and it did me know harm at all. I just wanted a bit more for my kids and also its hard to make friends with some of the mums when they are screaming at their toddlers, smoking lamberts and comparing lovebites (really!)

I am really jealous of my friends....

and they have bigger houses than us....

pathetic isnt it........

I never felt the need to send my dcs to nice middle class schools so don't assume all of MN feel like you do...

Thank you HB.

We applied for DS to go to 'nicer' schools but didnt get in, we cant afford to move or get private schooling.

I was happy initially with our local school and on the whole I am. But some days it really makes me feel sad, genuinely sad.

OP forget that it isnt as saying 'make it better for yourselves' and it will all be solved over night.

Why the assumption that only middle class parents care about eduaction. My dp and I are both working class and place huge value on education, to the extent that I am a teacher. Most of my friends who I would describe as working class feel the same.

I wasn't saying everyone on mn would move their child for the reasons the OP outlines, I was simply pointing out the blanket denial and refusal to acknowledge the existence of this type of parent is unrealistic, yet typical of mn. You all know what the OP is talking about, but seem desperate to appear as if you don't even notice and never make judgements.

Frankly, my opinion has been that if we live in a particular area and within a comunity we should be part of that community. So DS is going to the local school, I am trying to join the PTA etc etc etc but it is still depressing some days when you are met with situations where some of the parents are rough and unpleasant and your son is getting punched by 'orrible kids. I like our part of the city but wished the balance was more even - is that so criminal?

I really must go to bed.

People here are failing to appreciate the difference between working class and underclass.

I live on a council estate ..I hate the assumption that we don't give a toss about our children's education .

FGS, what is a 'lum'?

i grew up in a scheme,working class.my parents emphasised education.it isnt only a middle class preoccupation

and terms like underclass are divisive and derogatory.labelling a lot of people as lumpen proletariat

FGS why dont you google lum this new fangled internet tells you loads

But its a strange word (had googled in the meantime) - has the chimney meaning certainly, but also a deep pool /wooded valley meaning as well. Wonder how they connect.

poor OP. if you're unhappy with your child's school but you can't change it, can you get really involved in the parents' committees etc, see if you can begin the process of shaking things up a bit?

thought spaceman made some excellent points re social division.

LostinFrance point about PLU People Like Us seems sensible

Boobs. Yanbu. People are failing to cut you any slack for thoughtlessly using a word that is frowned on here in shineyhappyMumsnetland in your thread title.

I feel for you but agree that if moving is not possible then you really do just have to make the best of the parents and children you do like at the school and get as involved with school life as you possibly can.

Fwiw you come across as a fair minded person who is probably not exaggerating, so don't worry about all the judgey comments directed your way. People do simply love a good bunfight sometimes.

How do you actually know that your values are going to be different from other people's just because they look different and talk different? I thought values were big important things like morality and integrity, not the cut of the clothes you wear. Somehow I suspect that Boobalina might not judge a pipe-smoking well-modulated Oxford don as having no values...

I moved from another country, out of my social class and I have not found that much differences in values. But maybe I should just have assumed that people who didn't speak like me couldn't possibly have the same values.

My Mum did assume when she moved to a socially different area that she could not possibly have anything in common with the people around her. She did not make any friends in 25 years and talked all the time about going back to where we belonged. Tbh it wasn't the best social education we could have had. I have wanted to do better for my children.

There are some serious chips on shoulders here. We're not talking about living on a council estate or 'being working class'. We're talking about a particular social group (could equally be monied, though they aren't in this case). I think MoreCrack is right - we all know what the OP is talking about, but there seems to be a particular type of MN person who pretends to know otherwise, for fear of being seen to be - shock, horror!! - judging someone else.

Don't usually reply to threads where there is such a huge divide on what is right or wrong but felt that I had to now!

I can completely understand where the OP is coming from but I just think many of us haven't been brave enough to admit it.

I was extremely worried about DS starting reception in the school he is going to for very similar reasons the OP mentioned. I neither have the money or the inclination to send him to a private school-both myself and DH were educated in a state school and we've both done ok so why shouldn't DS but at the same time was concerned that he would come home effing and blinding like Id seen many of the children coming out of the school doing (its an ofsted outstanding rated infants school btw!).

In fact he had a place at a primary school in a nearby village as well which we decided against because after several sleepless nights I made the decision that I wanted to be part of the community we live in and I wanted him to go the school that was part of that community. Yes I was concerned about some of the children he would mix with (and I know that sounds awful but can't think of another way to put it!) but at the same time I would have hoped that my DS knows enough about right from wrong to make his own friendship choices and to learn that all people are different and you have to get along with all sorts in this life so why not start now.

He has been there 5 weeks and I can honestly say I have never met such a diverse group of parents or children...yes some of which aren't that socially aware as others as will swear and shout but don't we all sometimes. In fact the only ones at our school gate that I haven't got on with are the very posh mums who seem to look down their noses at everyone (me included lol!).

One of the children was very upset the other morning and her mum was outside with her baby sister as she was screaming (siblings aren't allowed in the classroom in the morning!)so one of other mums gave her a cuddle and this ladies DS looked after the little girl all morning to make sure she was ok. And no it wasn't me-I was too busy making sure DS had his lunch etc and changing his library book! It was one of the more undesirable mums what OP was refering to...yes she may have looked different and may have spoke differently but she cared about a little girl that was very upset when all others including myself didn't get involved.

Bit of a ramble basically but what Im trying to say is to try not to judge a book by its cover-yes the mums might not be your bestest friend but they are mums the same as everyone else who are trying to do the best for their children.

boobalina, putting aside all the idiocy on this thread, you say you're largely happy with the school. So important questions for me would be: When your child's hit by another, what's the school's reaction? Is your child happy overall? Have they got friends? Are they learning? Let's be honest, all schools - middle class ones included - have children who might hit your child. The key thing is how the school handles it. So does your child feel safe and respected? If they don't, then you have to move them somehow. fwiw, my child goes to an inner city so called rough school, and he's thriving. Yet lots of parents won't even look at said school because they look at the intake and make assumptions. I'm really not accusing you of this, am talking from own perspective, but personally I'm sick of the middle class moaners at the gates at our school who desperately wanted their child to go to the middle class school a mile away. They're so fixed on that, they can't seem to see that their child's smiling and happy and very obviously feeling great about their school. Am rambling, but what I'm trying to say is it doesn't matter what the other parents are like in lots of ways - what matters is the ethos of a school and if it's well resourced (ie good teachers, etc).

Hate the phrase "chip on your shoulder". It is just another way of saying "know your place little people and don't complain about it."

I think many MNers are being very honest.i would be appalled if my DC went to a school like this buecause of the strong influence the children would have on my own.
We live in a small v affluent village (although I have to emphasise that we are not affluent ) The Dc went to lovely cosy little village school and then my eldest 2 on to grammar school.Although the school is fab I am very concerned at some of the attitudes and prejudices my 2 eldest have picked up.
i can remeber when I ,who went to the same schools, went to University it was a real culture shock when I met people who had been to comprehensives.
So I think coming across a good mix is the best solution.

It was a shock to meet people who had come from comprehensives. Why ?

At my DS's school (same as another posters on here, who is not even vaguely chavvy), it is the snooty "considerably richer than yow" parents who irritate me.
No manners when it comes to driving/parking, some very selfish behaviour on show at times.
The "Chavs" are fine

OP, i agree with you, YANBU.

I've read through most of the thread and then stopped at spaceman's post as he/she has pretty much summed up the issue perfectly.