to feel a bit gutted that DS primary school is 80% full of chav roughneck parents....

[Boobalina]

I know I am going to get shot down here but hear me out. DS is in reception at our local school walking distance from our house. Various friends of ours (who all live in nicer parts of the city) children all go to their local schools which are ofsted 'outstanding' and full of middle class parents and kids. Now this is what you get when you cant afford to live in a nicer part of the city I know... but every now and then it really guts me. DS went to a very nice nursery and pre-school close to my work which was a bit posh and DD still goes there. But we couldnt afford to send DS there for primary school. His teachers seem really lovely, and really professional - its just some of the kids and parents there.

I went to a nice village primary school and then ended up going to a rather rough comp after and it did me know harm at all. I just wanted a bit more for my kids and also its hard to make friends with some of the mums when they are screaming at their toddlers, smoking lamberts and comparing lovebites (really!)

I am really jealous of my friends....

and they have bigger houses than us....

pathetic isnt it........

Letting your child roam free is quite different to not letting them in the house all day and not bothering to provide food for them, don't dress that sort of behaviour up with rose tinted specs as good old fashioned healthy parenting.

The OP did not make her point fairly or reasonably. The school that my children go to is very socially and ethnically mixed, and has plenty of children on free meals (more in the past year due to recession, incl some of my good friends).

However, different as the parents are, we do not have people who smoke in the playground, compare lovebites or swear loudly at their children. There is more that unites us than that divides us.

However, just because our primary school is not like this, I cannot assume that the OP is lying. There certainly are secondary schools in my location that I would not send my dd's to. However, some people have to send their ds's and dd's to the schools that I would avoid. For that reason, I cannot judge the OP. I suspect that most MNers have a list of local secondary schools that fall into the NO WAY catergory - especially those of us who live in cities.

Having said this, I would say to the OP that there are probably only 20-30% of parents who are love bite comparers. The rest are probably also cringing along with you, even if they are not Boden-clad, or speak with a clipped accent.

I love all the la-la-land posts from people in their insulated little bubbles saying "go private".

No doubt if the OP were in this price bracket they could afford to move to a more middle-class area - that's the way it works.

Foxinsocks: 'That's why state school in this country is so fabulous - everyone gets a chance, no matter what background they've had.'

Speaking of la-la land!!!

not la la land at all

anyone can go to school here and have a chance (UK), no matter how much money they have or not (state school), whether their parents are drug dealers or bankers, black, white, anyone and everyone

having lived in a country where that didn't happen for a very long time, I sometimes think people in this country don't know they are born

I am working class and my dd roams all day. I am sat now in my study watching her doing cartwheels across a hill.

So if you are fortunate enough to live surrounded by hills roaming is an idyllic childhood, live on a council estate and it is chavvy behaviour.

foxinsocks Sat 10-Oct-09 09:12:09
That's why state school in this country is so fabulous - everyone gets a chance, no matter what background they've had.

I totally agree, I come from an uneducated poor background but because of state eduacation ( and it was a bog standard comp) I was able to do whatever I wanted with my life. That is why I now teach in the state sector.

Well, you were lucky, Morosky. Because a whole heap - by no means all, but a significant number - of people educated in 'bog standard comps' have their life-chances wrecked by them. I would say that they don't enable a huge swathe of the population to 'do whatever they want with their lives'. You're very, very lucky if that's the case.

Do you not allow her in if she wants food or a drink, or to go to the toilet Morosky?

oh FFS. this is MN. the place where if you see someone giving a child a fruitshoot you call social services. where people accuse women of child abuse because they formula feed. where nutella for breakfast is considered the bottom of the parenting pit.

and yet you are all ready to pile on the OP for feeling sorry that her dc is exposed to parents who swear, hit their children, smoke around their babies, don't give a shit about work, education etc and generally neglect them FOR REAL.

OP, YANBU. there's a lot of seriously misguided people on here who hide behind their political correctness to avoid having to consider what they would do in your circumstances.

Hebewitched she tends to have a wee in the bush, if she wants a drink or something to eat she gets it herself.

Having taught in lots of schools from sink schools, to bog standard comps to my current quite mixed but outwardly more affluent school I know some are more successful than others. But from my circle of friends from our norther run down town who all went to the same comp we have all done very well because we all had a desire to escape and do better. My own dd had a very difficult start to life, starting off in a homeless hostel, I suppose for that reason I hope I dont judge others so easily.

I have vertainly never condemned anyone for giving their child a fruitshoot or anything else similar.

I also know that even though I was at a bog standard comp there were children who were not allowed to play with me because we lived on a rough council estate. We were also gossiped about because my mum was a single mum, I went to a convent primary school and I think from memory I was the only child in my class who did not have a Dad at home.

Am on a roll now, this just irks me. We live in a very divided town, it is very obvious who are the haves and have nots. When we moved here with our broad northern accents people clearly were not sure which side of the fence we were on. I threw a party for dd, and only a few peopel came, again I suspect because they were not sure about us. When they saw where we lived and worked out that we had "middle class jobs" and a "middle class lifestyle" dd suddenly started getting lots of invites all over the place.

I haven't read all the posts, but I sort of know where you're coming from, although it's more a fear of falling between the cracks.

My kids won't get into the school in the area I was plannign to move to as we don't live there Yet. I could afford to move there in a couple of years though. And the school that they will get into (because I went there) I can't afford to move near it as it's in a most expensive piece of the world. so i feel trapped between a rock and a hard place and all my friends who have money anyway.... these things aren't going to be a huge big deal. They'll either live near the good schools or be able to afford school fees, or if the school isnt great they can afford extra lessons.

I just feel like it's catch 22. I really want to imagine that my poverty won't prevent me from giving them a 'middle-class' upbringing just because I am a single mother now. But sometimes I think I can't fight it. I just haven't got the money to move mountains..... I'm talking secondary schools btw. I wouldn't worry about pre-school!!!! I bet they're not bunking off and smoking weed. Don't worry about pre-school. WEll maybe I can't talk. There is no point worrying about secondary schools and feeling jealous of people with money,,,, but I do and I am.

I don't mind walking to school when people around me have people carriers and as hard as it is, I can live with all the foreign holidays and lovely holidays etc.... but it just crushes me stone dead when I realise that this poverty thang is seriously going to really AFFECT their opportunities and education. (plenty of places at the local shite VEC)

She gets it herself from where Morosky? from your home? because DS's friend doesn't have that option, he's not allowed in his home until 5PM. If he wants something to eat, he has to hope that one of his friend's mums will let him in to play and feed him at the same time. If he wants to wee, he has to go to a park to find the nearest bush.

don't you agree that that is not the same as choosing to stay out all day if you want to?

Well yes I was hoping she might be.

Ooh scary. I don't know who you are, justaboutautumn, but I'm sure we'd like one another very much.

TheMysticMasseuse, I've been trying since yesterday to express the same sentiments without inviting abuse. There is way too much political correctness on here, there is no shame in not wanting your child to rub shoulders with kids who aren't brought up properly.

For the record, I'm not worried about the kids my DS plays with (except for the little fucker who punched him the other day) - its some of the parents. This has nothing to do with benefits / single parenting / etc. Just some pretty rough rough people who are genuinely quite fearsome!

and if anything, although I am making a really big effort to learn all my DS school mates names and say hi to the mums / dad respectively I am often met with suspicion as I have a non-descript middle class accent and am happily babbling away and being friend. They think I am a freak.

I feel for some of the kids as they stand shivering in the rain or tag along as we walk to school and start joining in on the conversation me and DS are having because they are craving attention. Its heartbreaking.

See, justaboutautumn - I knew we'd like one another!

Boobalina, it's hard to say without being lynched for it.... on mumsnet or anywhere really, and I wouldn't say it in real life... but it is not that easy to see your children have an 'inferior' education to the one you had yourself. And by that I mean schools where it's normal to bunk off, or where there's a low % of university entrance etc... I have read some of the posts on here and I don't know what to say really. I bet none of the parents who posted those harsh remarks would be happy with the secondary schools I'm having to consider. They'd be moving or going private. But if you can't afford that and you dare to suggest that you think your child deserves more, then strips will be torn off you!!! BUT, going private is the same as saying 'my child deserves more'.

It's ... a tough one.

I am playing devil's Advocate to a certain extent but I do hate any kind of judginess and making assumptions about people based on appearances. My dd is often out for hours at a time, stops to chat to ramblers or farmers while covered in mud and grass stains. Because we live in a rural bubble and people know who we are it is ok. If she did this in a town people would assume she was neglected. Of course it is different and I am not advocating kids wandering the streets but life is so much easier in a nice house with a bit of extra cash.

the fact that the parents dont have the same amountof money is not important. its the values that they pass on to their children.

I have posted a lot about the sort of scum parents that go to my DD's school ( hammer attack anyone?) and it is soul destrying.
i look around the other children in her reception class. all wide eyed and desperate to learn and succeeed and i just know that a good 30% will end up with an asbo and criminla record.

But theonly way to fix these problems is from the inside. so im volunteering at the school.
I will bust a gut in order to get these parents involved and taking a pride in their childrens education.

Good for you Mamazon - I am waiting to join the PTA and have offered the teachers to help with readers and art projects if they need spare hands... cant do much more than that really!