DS2 made to fish bottle out of school toilet as punishment

[citylover]

DS2 is in year 2 and he and a friend put a plastic bottle down the toilet, think his friend then went to the toilet, other kids told on them and they were rightly called to account.

As punishment they were made to fish said bottle out of loo (with latex gloves on).

I am really uncomfortable with this type of punishment and have made my concerns known.

In addition my DS has quite serious anxiety issues around using school toilets which I have been trying to overcome over the past few months. The school are aware of these.

My family, and a childless friend think this punishment is fine ("well he won't do it again will he") which made me think perhaps IABU.

However my gut feeling is it isn't the right way of handling it and crosses a line.

He is generally a well behaved child at school - his teacher confirmed this the other night.

well just as this thread has finally made me click

i think fair enough he took it out

and his issues with school toilets are apparently minor/cured if he has decided to start playingt the fool in them

i am a grandmother type lol

But this is exactly the problem we're all up against in society. Some parents honestly believing that their kid is not the one who's causing aggro for others, and complaining when the school sanctions their pfb for being naughty. There are many kids for whom a talking-to after a first offence is enough to do the trick. Beyond that, there is a significant minority for whom a talking-to is seen as being let off. Those kids need a punishment (yes, shock horror! That word!)
And whoever said "rod for your own back" is exactly right, as well as it being a rod for all our backs. Not least because there is a general concensus that "all" parents are scared of their kids/won't tell them off/discipline them/won't back up school sanctions, when this thread alone seems to indicate that most of us would fully support the school in dealing with anti-social behaviour.
And if the OP still believes that her son has been unjustly treated, after all the common-sense handed out here, then I despair.

I don't have an opinion on the OP, but some of you are totally out of order in the insinuations you are making about OBM's DS (and I'm guessing about citylover's DS also, although I haven't met him). OBM's DS is a thoroughly lovely boy - extremely considerate of others. You might not agree with OBM and citylover's approach, but to imply that their parenting is going to result in anti-social thugs is quite shocking. You might think your parenting is perfect, but believe me, your manners are lacking (as is your reasoning).

LOL hatrick

Maybe she got her boss to fish it out

OBM's son wasn't the one who chucked something down the loo, though. CL's son did, however, and it's that action that we're discussing, compounded by the fact that his parents are cross that he was asked to make good the 'crime.' It's not personal to the kid - lots of kids are daft/naughty/whatever, but it's what to do about it the has been the subject of this thread.

'It?s not personal to the kid' - I disagree clam - you yourself refer to the OP's DS as a 'pfb', and say that her behaviour is creating a 'rod for all our backs'. You don't know her or her DS, so how can you be so confident of what kind of person he is, and will be when he grows up?

There are many different ways to produce kind, considerate adults.

and the wider issue of why some kids go on to continue in somewhat antisocial behavior with no concept of natural consequences is what we have been discussing, rather than the specifics.

This thread provides an excellent example of a natural consequence to poor behavior. I think that iot is very interesting that some parents chose not to follow through on such a natural consequence, and I do think that debate on the possible consequences of this is totaly valid.

and FWIw if a moon cup of mine was in a loo I would be utterly mortified at the thought of expecting someone else having to sort it out for me!

my curiosity was aroused by the mooncup bit too

er presumably if you dropped that in the loo then you would obviously take it out

of course men tend to specialise in droping mobile phoines down the loo at least apparently myexh does...he either leaves them in the pub or drops them down the loo

i assume he does get them out again

mb I don't have a problem at all with possible consequences, and I'm sure you've been thoroughly reasonable as you usually are, but not everyone has been. How about this from reallytired: 'The alternative is a spoilt, ego centric adult that no one want to employ, marry or be friends with. Is that really the future you want for your seven year old child?'

Hmmm, nice way to talk about a seven-year-old whom you don't even know.

not that the thread really needs it but yes, I agree with the school.

As others have said - it's not even really a punishment, it's about understanding the consequences of your actions - that if you make a mess, someone has to clear it up, simple as that.

If you throw litter on the ground, someone has to pick it up.
If you draw on a wall, someone has to clean it off.
If you leave toys all round the living room, someone has to put them away.

I think it's entirely laudable that the school showed Citylover's DS that if you throw a bottle down the toilet, someone has to remove it.

After all, until that a child understands that kind of thing, they will continue to drop litter, draw on walls, and chuck stuff down toilets, safe in the knowledge that the magical toilet fairy will sort out the consequences. I know adults who are still living in that world.

I don't want to be tedious (contrary to appearances I know), but clam said: 'this is exactly the problem we're all up against in society. Some parents ... complaining when the school sanctions their pfb for being naughty.'

That to me reads as a pretty strong personal indictment of the OP, not a general comment.

who fished the mooncup out if not you?
I am completely boggled by this
am starting to feel there are two tiers of society - those who drop things in toilets and those who then have to put their hands in to fish the things out

I've dropped a mmoncup down the loo before although not at work. I fished it out and washed it. I didn't go and find someone else to do it. I can't imagine how to ask someone to do that for me. If I flung a cup of coffee all over the floor at work I would clean that up myself. There is a difference between a cleaner in an office or school and a maid from the past.

No one is saying that obm ds in paticular is antisocial, just that action without consequence can lead to behaving like a twat, which it can. Its a generalisation.

We're going to have to agree to disagree in our interpretations of that one hatrick.

I honestly do think that many of the behavioural issues that I deal with in NT children are down to parents not making sure that children face the consequences of their choice of poor behaviour.

If there is no consequence why should the child bother to change?

The answer is that they don't. So I get not quite so charming 14 year olds acting in just this way, and when that palls, they often move on to more antisocial acts.

The reason that you start this at 7 (where the consequence is appropriate) is that it is a bloody sight harder to do it in older children who have had years of ducking consequences.

Some parents dislike a 'punishment' response to poor behaviour, but favour a 'taking the consequences' approach to dicipline....your child refuses to wear a coat, the consequence is that they get cold.

THis would see Just this sort of situation, and given that the child wore gloves, there was no risk to the child at all.

gosh I would absolutely fish a mooncup or indeed anything else out of a loo! (well, anything apart from bodily products that is). In fact only the other day I picked my keys out of a public toilet without gloves - I washed my hands afterwards but it never occurred to me to be bothered.

It's not instant death to put your hand down a loo you know - they are actually rather clean places normally. There's probably more piss in your local toddler's pool.

lol franny

to the OP: I would be happy that my son was at a school that was so sensible, instead of giving him some meaningless lines to write or other punishment, they made him do something constructive about the situation.

Actually now I come to think of it, ds2 would probably RELISH the opportunity to put on gloves and put his arm down the lav

Yeah so???

Who did you want to fish it out? He and his pal were mucking around so it was up to them to get it out.

If any of my dc at that age had been silly enough to do it i would be more than happy for the school to make them remove it from the toilet.

I hope you haven't voiced your gut feeling to your ds that he shouldn't have had to do it?

I don't think I have said that I protect my child from experiencing the consequences of his actions.

What I have said is that in this particular situation, and partly because of the OP's child's earlier problem with the loos, I don't think that forcing him stick his arm down the pan was the right thing to do.

The OP's DS is neither a PFB, or a "poppet", and she is clearly not one of the scary parents who march into school demanding that a teacher be sacked for telling her child off. I think you are all misdirecting your rage.