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Original poster

DS2 made to fish bottle out of school toilet as punishment

256 replies

citylover · 11/07/2008 12:38

DS2 is in year 2 and he and a friend put a plastic bottle down the toilet, think his friend then went to the toilet, other kids told on them and they were rightly called to account.

As punishment they were made to fish said bottle out of loo (with latex gloves on).

I am really uncomfortable with this type of punishment and have made my concerns known.

In addition my DS has quite serious anxiety issues around using school toilets which I have been trying to overcome over the past few months. The school are aware of these.

My family, and a childless friend think this punishment is fine ("well he won't do it again will he") which made me think perhaps IABU.

However my gut feeling is it isn't the right way of handling it and crosses a line.

He is generally a well behaved child at school - his teacher confirmed this the other night.

OP posts:
hatrick · 12/07/2008 01:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

onebatmother · 12/07/2008 01:27

I'm not upset in the slightest Q. Taken aback though, at the apparently universal MN desire to see a 7 yr old child taught The Error Of His Ways.

onebatmother · 12/07/2008 01:37

feenie, I'm sure you've got better things to do.

Califrau · 12/07/2008 02:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

UnderRated · 12/07/2008 02:53

Someone had to get it out - surely it should be the person who put it in?

This was a good way to learn that actions have consequences.

hellish · 12/07/2008 03:00

Has noone on this thread ever fished their lipstick out of the loo? It's not such a big deal surely, it's only piss.

UnderRated · 12/07/2008 03:11

I fish all sorts out of the loo, Hellish. It doesn't bother me

Egg · 12/07/2008 07:47

I have fished more than one mobile phone out of the loo in the past...

Blandmum · 12/07/2008 07:56

'I'm not upset in the slightest Q. Taken aback though, at the apparently universal MN desire to see a 7 yr old child taught The Error Of His Ways.'

Possibly because its a darn sight easier to do it then, than to do it at 10, 13 or 17? start as you mean to go on, within limits, and this was well within limits IMHO

Twiglett · 12/07/2008 08:04

OBM .. has it changed your mind though?

Marina · 12/07/2008 08:09

onebatmother, how would you feel if your child went solo on a playdate, blocked a toilet and fouled it...and the host family had to sort it out, because the child expected them to, I wonder?
Because I think it very likely that expectation would mean the family never wanted the child back in their house again.
And as MB says, I might be quite concerned whether in the long term, allowing the child to dodge the consequences of his actions was crueller than getting him to face up to them?
I know a lovely child whose parents have this approach of always stepping in to clear up for her, physically and emotionally, and it is doing her no favours at all developmentally. She is cavalier with other people's feelings, and with her own and other people's possessions. It's actually pretty sad to watch.
There is a line you cross IME, round Reception time, where you have to start helping your child deal with the consequences of what is written off as mischief or accidental damage in toddlerhood.

psmith · 12/07/2008 08:24

My 4yo has thrown toothbrushes down the toilet on 3 occasions. Not dropped, thrown, in the vain hope that I will replace it with one that is a better colour. It never occured to me to fish it out myself. I didn't consider it a punishment at all, just picking up after himself.

pmsl at the teacher should do it. Teachers are employed to teach, dinner staff to cook and supervise meals, caretaker for maintenence and security. Until there is a member of staff employed to clear up after naughty children who have delibaretly made a mess then the people who make the mess should clean it up themselves.

I wouldn't expect my dcs to have to clean the classroom or sweep the hall after lunch in ordinary circs but if they threw paint all over the classroom or had a food fight in the hall then I would expect them to clean it themselves and have an actual punishment. School staff are not Dickensian servents.

savoycabbage · 12/07/2008 08:28

Citylover - who did you want to get the bottle out of the toilet?

And if your child did this at my house he would be getting it out himself. It wouldn't cross my mind to do it or get my own child to do it or my husband.

annoyingdevil · 12/07/2008 09:03

Blimey, I'd make my three year old fish it out. As for my two year old, he has his hands down the toilet most of the time anyway!

snowleopard · 12/07/2008 09:17

'the apparently universal MN desire to see a 7 yr old child taught The Error Of His Ways.'

But onebat, yes, that's exactly right. Why shouldn't a 7-year-old be taught the error of his (less desirable) ways? When 7yos misbehave should there be no consequences and no lesson to learn? Surely at 7 (and long before IMO) if children do something wrong, make a mess, deliberately misbehave, we owe it to them to let them know it's not the right thing to do, and get them involved in putting it right. Or else when do you start - with the prison system when they're 15?

ReallyTired · 12/07/2008 09:31

'the apparently universal MN desire to see a 7 yr old child taught The Error Of His Ways.'

The alternative is a spoilt, ego centric adult that no one want to employ, marry or be friends with. Is that really the future you want for your seven year old child?

I think that children should be taught the "Error of their Ways" as soon as they can walk, talk and you can reason with them. It does no favours to make excuses for you child's behavior or argue that they should not be punished because they have condition X, Y or Z.

The boy was given gloves and I am sure he was supervised taking out the bottle.

RusselBrussel · 12/07/2008 09:42

Agree completely with snowleopard and RT.
Teaching children the 'Error of Their Ways' is NOT a punishment. It is akin to teaching them to read, brush their teeth and look before crossing the road.

tootiredtothink · 12/07/2008 10:34

Agree with you all!!

Although my only other question would be what your ds's (sorry pedants - I never know where to put my apostrophes) actual punishment was? As others have said, it was a consequence not a punishment.

Hecate · 12/07/2008 10:47

See, this is why some people think they can do whatever the hell they like and bugger everyone else.

Your son did something wrong. He created a situation - on purpose - where someone had to do something unpleasant to sort it out.

That someone should be him. Otherwise he gets the message that he can do what he likes and someone else will sort it out and at most he gets a "you really shouldn't do that, sweetheart, be a good boy now." but no consequences. Why should he be protected from taking responsibility for his actions? Not a good life lesson, imo.

Everyone is different and I can only speak for myself, but if my child had done that, they would have fished it out because it was their responsibility to do so AND they would have been punished for doing something that they knew was wrong.

edam · 12/07/2008 10:55

I can remember being made to clean a garden gate that was covered in mud. If we had been the ones to throw mud at it, I would have thought fair enough.

(Actually, we weren't, we were just blamed by the little shit who had done it.)

clam · 12/07/2008 12:46

A few years back, a 10yo boy in my colleague's class was mucking about and ended up knocking a pot plant over. There was soil all over the place, and the teacher asked him to get a dustpan and brush and clear it up. Look of horrified disgust on boy's face: "but that's a girl's job!"
That kid did more clearing up and tidying in that classroom for the remainder of the school year than the rest of the class put together.

NoBiggyFinish · 12/07/2008 12:51

clam a girl's job!!!! Flaming nora!

Any point me saying the teacher was right about the toilet thing? No? OK. As you were.

Original poster
citylover · 12/07/2008 13:56

Sheesh knew I shouldn't have posted this. Ignoring my gut instinct again.

I usually kill threads obviously not posting about important enogh stuff!!

Right, haven't changed my mind - still not happy about him having to put his hand down the loo - for a first offence would have expected a telling off, for him to apologise to the cleaner or caretaker and maybe missing play (which is their normal sanction). Detention does not exist in his school.

I would not expect the teacher to have removed it.

Just to show I am not against reparation DS1 once got told off for having an accident (yes they do happen)in the loos. He was helping a teacher with something got really desperate and slightly overshot. I did say to the head that perhaps he should have been made to clear it up, can't remember what the head said now.

Perhaps I should have been made to fish my mooncup out of the loo at work when it flew down there LOL

Finally, if a child on a playdate did that at my house I would not ask them to get it out but I would mention it to their parents and tell them off.

I am not a soft touch, am not against punishment, discipline. ANd I don't think I am raising an ASBO type thug either just a normal little boy who is rarely in trouble.

My DS1s CM who is an experienced grandmother type and the best cm i have used did not think it appropriate either.

OBM and I will agree to differ with you all.

Off on a historical sleepover today with DS2 so won't be back until tomorrow evening. Not running away.

OP posts:
TheFallenMadonna · 12/07/2008 14:00

You wouldn't expect the teacher to fish it out, but you would expect the cleaner or caretaker to do so. And for your child to apologise to them?

hatrick · 12/07/2008 14:03

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