Primary School punch - AIBU?

[MovingMad87]

DD is in Year 1 (6 years old). A few days ago, I got a call from her school saying she had been punched in the face by a boy in her class, leaving her with a bleeding nose. Awful.

The school explained that DD had been trying to stop this boy from grabbing her friend by the neck. She asked him to stop and told him he should apologise. In response, he punched her. The school suspended him for a day before half-term as a result.

This boy has a history of violent behaviour; scratching, kicking, and punching other children. The school is aware of the issue but as of now haven't really done anything about it.

A few weeks ago, I overheard DDs form tutor telling a parent that their child had a bad day. The teacher had bruises down her leg from being kicked by a different child. While that wasn't the same boy, it reinforced my growing concern that this level of violence is being normalised in the classroom. When I asked DD about it, she wasn't even particularly shocked; apparently, incidents like this happen all the time.

Now, I'm thinking I need to move my child to another school. Possibly private, but I'd rather explore good state school options first. I'll hear what the school has to say in the meeting, but for me, a punch in the face is a red line. A 6-year-old should not be dealing with this. Either the school removes this child, or we leave.

AIBU? Would you move your child?

@Showercap22 - yes I have to protect her at all costs so I will do what needs to be done.

And yet there is a school down the road who just got outstanding - they exclude all the time. Zero tolerance.

If there is violence in the classroom staff should be trained in physical interventions etc. How supported are staff if they have to use these methods?

Yeah, sorry, that’s what I meant. Very precise records of what they’ve done to help, who implemented it, when, for how long. I appreciate this is a huge undertaking though, and maybe the presumed absence of this standard of record keeping is a nod to the staffing level issues and increased workload on teachers we already see.

No school can guarantee absolute safety of any child any more than you can guarantee their absolute safety at home.

By the time it gets to us we do usually expel as its the SLT asking us to BUT there is such a long process and the school has to be shown to follow it EXACTLY and try many other things before it gets to us. Parents, often with the help of Social Workers or similar know how to play the system in many cases and can delay by not turning up for meetings or asking for info/assessments.
A few months ago (Secondary) a very violent pupil was up for PX and because one form was filled in incorrectly by school we had to reject it.
If there is a danger to Staff or other pupils I am usually minded to PX but sometimes we just can't.

I don't want to teach my child to hit back. I think I just have to move her.

Training is a form of support surely. A teacher should not have ‘bruises all down her leg’ from being kicked by a 6 year old. He should have been restrained in an age appropriate way. Teachers can only do this when trained.

That’s part of the problem - Ofsted don’t like exclusions, so there are no consequences for violent behaviour. It’s no surprise to me that the prisons are full.

Plus, even if a school does manage to permanently exclude a pupil, they will end up in another school and probably cause the same problems.

We are in west London. But I've heard the state secondary schools are horrified by the behaviour coming in from the primary schools and instituting Marshall law as a result. 😭

To add to this, my staff are trained but the two staff required to complete positive handling with a child therefore are no longer teaching or supporting classes of other children.

You're being very naive in thinking the school can just remove the child concerned. It is very very difficult for primary schools in particular to permanently exclude a child whatever their background or special needs and most local authorities just won't allow it. Of course it's awful that your daughter was hurt, but the school suspended the boy for punching her. You have no idea what the school have been doing with this child and what they are doing to prevent a similar incident happening again and you absolutely can't insist that they should permanently exclude him. I don't know what you think reporting this to Ofsted will achieve but a huge proportion of schools are having issues with children like this every day because there is not enough money to fund the support needed and children with extreme behaviour are increasingly being taught in mainstream schools because there are no places available for them in more appropriate settings.

Well this is sobering 😭

Most parents can usually guarantee that their child won’t be punched at home.

If someone was assaulting a child at home there would be intervention and repercussions, not just this, 'oh well, we'll allow the violence to continue while we do lots of paperwork'.

And OFSTED will expect a whole raft of paperwork to show how that child is being managed and support to stay in school, that every behaviour policy is followed to the tee, with the right amount of,pre warnings, the gradual increase of sanctions, referrals to other agencies, etc.

OFSTED doesn't just come in and say that a child should be kicked out of the school, even if they are assaulting staff and other pupils.

It's not as simple as some posters believe it to be,

Yeah. Neither of my kids have been punched in the face.

and the phone calls I get about injuries are much more benign.

id be out of there too .

So how can schools make assurances a child won't be punched at school? It can happen from any child at any time. Schools try their best but can never guarantee.

I don't think it's a simple process at all. But I also can't leave my child in school to be a punching bag. That is not acceptable to me.

I am not sure I have much choice anymore sadly...

@MovingMad87 and that just shows what a lottery an OFSTED inspection is.

Excluding pupils all the time is not necessarily the mark of a good school

I know, sorry.
My DS is at Private and when I sit on the Secondary PX Panel I hear things that would have had my son expelled many times over at his school.
I thought I knew what went on at (some) schools but I actually had no idea of the nonsense teachers have to deal with before they can even consider teaching.
I have to say as well that a large part fo the issue is down to parenting, its not so much that parents don't WANT to parent their DC properly they just can't and/or have no idea what appropriate parenting is. One Mother looked at me like I was an alien when I sugggested that she could keep her 2 year old downstairs so her 13 years old could do some online school in her room "but she wants to go upstairs to her sister" and I was also met with shock when I offered the opinion that perhaps a 10 year old boys behaviour deteriorating around 2pm every day was that was what time he hit peak tiredness after gaming until 2am "but we are all up until then"
I don't think I have ever sat on a Panel where there was a child with a stable family background, its very very sad

A school that exclude DC willy nilly will not hold on to an outstanding rating for long, because they are letting down lots of DC. In my experience schools that exclude are usually the schools looking for a quick fix rather than finding a long term solutions to meet the DCs needs. Every child is legally entitled to education, it isn't good for society to leave lots of people uneducated. SEN DC in schools where their needs are not being met will have a lot more instances of violence than a school that works with DC and meets their needs. I found this with my own autistic DC, lots of meltdowns and exclusions in reception. Did not learn a thing but came away with a lot of trauma and negative behaviour. He is now thriving at a different state school he moved to in year 1, added to the waiting list for assessment for Autism and ADHD, EHCP in place by year 2. He is now a calm, popular happy child in year 3, and is at an expected level with school work.

Whilst this behaviour is completely unacceptable and I'm very sorry to hear your child was hurt, you say the child was excluded? That to me suggests that this school does indeed take a hard line against violence and are putting their behaviour policy into practice. I can understand your anger but this is not a case of "my child was hurt and school did nothing". They absolutely did do something. Unfortunately, they did all they could in the circumstances as schools cannot just expell a child. There are massive hoops to jump though first. The exclusion will be part of this hoop jumping.

With all due respect, you and your family have no right to know all the ins and outs of previous incidents with this child, so claiming they have enough evidence for him to be out by now is rubbish. The only incident you will know the ins and outs of us this one, because it involves your child.

I totally understand the hysteria, as your child has been hurt, but the school cannot expell the other child simply because you deem that to be the right action. By all means hold a meeting with the school about how they intend to keep your child safe in future. You can't claim they haven't dealt with this incident though, because that simply isn't true, is it? It isn't their fault that it isn't the level of punishment that you would like to see. You don't set the rules. They are following protocol.

If you intend to pull your child out, nobody is going to stop you, but you are incredibly naive to think violence won't occur elsewhere because sadly that is the reality of what state schools are having to deal with these days. Another state school might not deal with it as adequately, so the grass isn't always greener.

Private don't have to put up with this sh*t in the same way, so it's impossible to compare the two in terms of how it would be dealt with. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to afford the choice.