Primary School punch - AIBU?

[MovingMad87]

DD is in Year 1 (6 years old). A few days ago, I got a call from her school saying she had been punched in the face by a boy in her class, leaving her with a bleeding nose. Awful.

The school explained that DD had been trying to stop this boy from grabbing her friend by the neck. She asked him to stop and told him he should apologise. In response, he punched her. The school suspended him for a day before half-term as a result.

This boy has a history of violent behaviour; scratching, kicking, and punching other children. The school is aware of the issue but as of now haven't really done anything about it.

A few weeks ago, I overheard DDs form tutor telling a parent that their child had a bad day. The teacher had bruises down her leg from being kicked by a different child. While that wasn't the same boy, it reinforced my growing concern that this level of violence is being normalised in the classroom. When I asked DD about it, she wasn't even particularly shocked; apparently, incidents like this happen all the time.

Now, I'm thinking I need to move my child to another school. Possibly private, but I'd rather explore good state school options first. I'll hear what the school has to say in the meeting, but for me, a punch in the face is a red line. A 6-year-old should not be dealing with this. Either the school removes this child, or we leave.

AIBU? Would you move your child?

Not necessarily. If the child had SEN and it sounds like they do, you have to be able to evidence that you’re ensuring adequate support in place before you can even consider expelling them. Issue is with all the funding cut that’s bloody hard to do. Even without SEN you need to get risk of exclusion team involved and follow their advice. It’s a long relentless process.

I can completely understand the temptation to move but consider the cohort of where you live. Chances are other schools will have similar issues. There is always going to be one child that behaves like this in every school. That said the proximity of your child to it isn’t something I would be happy with. I’ve got two kids (11,8) and we had the first incidence of violence last month when my 8 year old was punched. The child sounds like the one you’ve got and the school is all over it. I don’t know what the punishment is and I don’t care but what I do know is that since they started he’s gone from no support to 1:1 support at unstructured times and higher adult to child ratio in all lessons. That is what you want to see from school, not a gut reaction to punish but increased level of support.

I used to be a teacher and was in a situation exactly like this one. I had a child in my class whose behaviour was so unhinged, they were a threat to everyone’s safety. Their mental health was spiralling and they weren’t given any boundaries, and the other children were paying the price. I pleaded with the headteacher to do something but was essentially ignored.

The school had already permanently excluded so many children that excluding him would have sent alarm bells ringing, so they were basically putting up with it and hoping the mother would pull him out and send him elsewhere. Some schools care more about their reputation than they do about their children. Complain to the headteacher, write to Ofsted, giving clear examples of why your child isn’t safe. The school will pick the easiest path to a good reputation.

I’m sorry about your daughter and I hope she’s okay.

@OhHellolittleone - that's part of my issue. They know this child is a problem in the playground and there is a total lack of supervision. If they had been supervising this child in the playground properly by child would not have a bloody nose. She was literally trying to do the job of a teacher in the first place which was trying to stop her friend being strangled!

He will be told they cannot discuss personal circumstances the end. Because they cannot.

I should say that the school has issued a consequence here and that another state school would do the same in the circumstances. So I wouldn’t have moved my DC after a one off incident. If there is frequent violence and children tell Ofsted they don’t feel safe, the school may be judged inadequate for safeguarding.

They cannot. But I do not accept that violence in school should be commonplace and accepted. Especially in Year 1.

I think they are all in our school 😭

You cannot demand that they remove another student. If you threaten to leave then they will have no choice but to say ‘ that’s a shame but we wish you good luck’.
You’re not wrong that this behaviour is unacceptable but permanently excluding a child of this age is an extremely difficult thing to do.

Early years and KS1 is the worst time for it. It’s when a lot of kids struggle to regulate and it’s before kids have been identified / supported with SEN. Violence gets less and less throughout the years not worse. Because children learn to regulate and conflict solve. Very few kids know that in year 1. Some are violent which is unfortunate but most of them spend 99% of their lives crying or telling tales. Something which also gets less as they get older.

So your solution would be?!? I just leave her in there to get punched again because it's 'too difficult' to remove him? I think I'd be seriously letting her down if I went down that route.

It could be learning needs.

Often it’s emotional needs that are not being met because they are experiencing abuse or neglect in the home.
I can think of plenty of children who have parents with either severe mental illness, substance abuse issues or both. This often goes hand in hand with neglect, abuse, domestic violence and parents who are unable (or unwilling) to prioritise the needs of their children. That leaves a mark on children and they often struggle profoundly with emotional regulation. I don’t recognise the characterisation of children with behavioural difficulties being little princes(ses) who are over-indulged at home. The children that I see at risk of exclusion have usually had desperately miserable childhoods.

@Hoppinggreen that is incredibly sad. I think I'll have to move her to private earlier than I thought. 😭

Similar situation. I’ve never encountered a child engaging in this behaviour who doesn’t have a desperately sad home life normally coupled with generational SEN.

Unfortunately there is no shortage of disruptive and violent pupils to go around. Many have unmet needs, traumatic or very difficult home lives, but that doesn't make it any easier for schools and other children to deal with the behaviour.

I can only speak from the standpoint of a parent with a child with behavioural problems.

My son is 4 and in reception.

He doesn't hurt other pupils, but he sometimes has terrible meltdowns and he has kicked and slapped teachers in the past.

He doesn't get beaten at home and he comes from a normal, loving family.

I suspect there might be ADHD or some type of autism, but the school hasn't explored this yet.

My daughter doesn't have any issues.

The school has a behaviour book for my child, where they write down his daily behaviour and I also can write down my observations.

I already had two meetings with the school. The staff is very supportive, but the headteacher seems to have an intense dislike for my son.

His behaviour seems to have improved over the last month, which I'm happy about.

However, I am scared everyday when I have to pick him up.

We discipline him at home when he's had a bad day by taking away toys or privileges and we fully support the school.

It's not easy at all though.

This was exactly my experience of DC in reception too. Down to the headteacher disliking him. It is so so tough. Please push for assessments and an EHCP, they really can help.

Is it more than 1 form entry? I.e more than one year 1 class? If so, ask for her to be moved into a different class first, especially if the school in general is satisfactory. It’s really hard to have a child excluded and I think a suspension for a year 1 child was a good effort from the HT who has to be very, very careful about discrimination cases etc. Some classes are just awful and a horrible mix and it sounds like your daughter is unlucky to be in one. I think if a boy is punching a girl in the face at that age then he is likely to be a problem for quite a long time - it will take school a long time to exclude him, legal hoops to jump through etc. I would certainly consider a move in schools if the above isn’t an option, especially in Y1 as she’ll likely make friends etc easily. I’m a primary school teacher btw and had a child like this for a long time and I was not supported at all by the HT, he was very rarely suspended, she would make him come and say sorry but he didn’t mean it and she let him stay all the way to Y6, it was awful for those he targeted.

@MovingMad87 No I'm not saying that and I'm sorry that your daughter was hurt. If you're in the position where you can afford private school fees then you can make the choice to move your daughter. I'm just trying to point out, as others have done, that this is the unfortunate reality in many schools nowadays. You can't know what the school are doing with the child who punched your daughter - they may be on the verge of a managed move, but that's not for the school to share with you any more than they will share any information about his background or any diagnosis of special needs that he might have. A large proportion of schools will have one or more children like this and even if they do have an EHCP, the extra funding this brings often won't come anywhere near meeting the cost of the support that is needed. One of the primary schools I work with currently has a child whose needs are so severe that they need to have two adults with her for the entire time she is in school. It takes so long to get an EHCP that the school is doing this without any extra funding. They are battling constantly with the local authority but this has been going on for months now. It's very easy to say what you think schools should be doing with children like the one who assaulted your daughter but the unfortunate reality is that there is not enough money available to support children in mainstream schools and a desperate lack of places at special schools.

And this attitude is why schools are a shitshow. We had a reception kid regularly biting, punching, calling teaching staff a c*nt, destroying furniture and apparently we were supposed to suck that up?

A child with those issues has no business being in mainstream, and no mainstream school should have to deal with it. We sure as shit didn’t have any funding to deal with it. Once an EHCP came through, we couldn’t find any employee willing to deal with the child - and who wants to be a punching bag for minimum wage? Our school was small with no physical space for nurture rooms etc, and we had children leaving in numbers that were affecting the viability of the school because of this child. We eventually PEXEd and the LA made the HTs life a misery, and it cost the school over £10 000.

Your misguided compassion for one child comes at the cost of every other child and staff member in that school. It’s not acceptable.

@Cruiser123

What makes you think the head teacher hates your child? That's really sad to hear.

Do you honestly think that there are two options?

punish to exclusion.
Do nothing.

It's not just the lack of support in schools, though. It's the lack of support from parents. We have many parents who are in flat out denial about their children's 'special needs' and won't support the idea that there are needs. They refuse to hear any 'label', even when it's screamingly obvious, and the behaviour continues ... with no funding or enough school support to get it under control. They just blame the school.

Believe me the schools are not sitting there doing nothing. But it is usually clear pretty quickly where children have serious issues and there needs to be a much more rapid mechanism for getting those children to a place where not only do they stand a better chance of getting an education, but also where their behaviour isn’t destroying the rest of the school. And schools shouldn’t be punished for saying they aren’t prepared or resourced to deal with this level of need.

I agree. I always internally raise an eyebrow when people say that it's gentle parenting and over-indulgence that is at the root of the decline in discipline in schools.

Maybe some behavioural issues, yes, but by and large it's not the kids with loving and involved parents, even if a bit wet, who are being violent towards their peers and smashing up classrooms. They generally figure out eventually where the boundaries are. It's the ones who are incapable, rather than just unwilling, to comply who are the issue in many cases, and it's a much harder problem to solve.

I know. I work in a school. Specifically in this area.

Which is why I despair when I see people screaming exclusion as first line response to a punch involving a 6 year old.