Primary School punch - AIBU?

[MovingMad87]

DD is in Year 1 (6 years old). A few days ago, I got a call from her school saying she had been punched in the face by a boy in her class, leaving her with a bleeding nose. Awful.

The school explained that DD had been trying to stop this boy from grabbing her friend by the neck. She asked him to stop and told him he should apologise. In response, he punched her. The school suspended him for a day before half-term as a result.

This boy has a history of violent behaviour; scratching, kicking, and punching other children. The school is aware of the issue but as of now haven't really done anything about it.

A few weeks ago, I overheard DDs form tutor telling a parent that their child had a bad day. The teacher had bruises down her leg from being kicked by a different child. While that wasn't the same boy, it reinforced my growing concern that this level of violence is being normalised in the classroom. When I asked DD about it, she wasn't even particularly shocked; apparently, incidents like this happen all the time.

Now, I'm thinking I need to move my child to another school. Possibly private, but I'd rather explore good state school options first. I'll hear what the school has to say in the meeting, but for me, a punch in the face is a red line. A 6-year-old should not be dealing with this. Either the school removes this child, or we leave.

AIBU? Would you move your child?

No. What is ableism is creating a hierarchy of need. I’m a wheelchair user. My need is valid.

The violent 6 year old. Theirs is not.

That is ableism. You may not want to acknowledge it but it is. It’s ableism and it’s shameful. And is one of the biggest barriers kids face.

some surprising views expressed here especially the educational people. I relocated when both my children were in primary as i could not stand the poor attitude of staff to badly behaved children.

I did not have the resources to go private.

I was chair of a school governing body in a different LA to where i lived. In a deprived area. Child behaviour was strictly monitored and temporary exclusions were frequent whilst the knew Head got a handle on the situation, and things then settled down when parents realised how to avoid such inconveniences.

It seems schools up & down the country have similar issues but that doesn’t help the kids that are victims in these scenarios.

What on earth is going on with children now? I went to a fairly run down primary in the 90s with a fair few children from deprived backgrounds or with SEN, I don’t remember any of them hitting teachers or giving classmates a black eye. It would’ve been unthinkable. Something’s changed, although I have no idea what.

@Ritzybitzy It's DARVO to claim ableism when you're called out for being ableist. Don't think I'm unaware of what you're doing.

Yes, so funny to mock a disabled woman for being distressed by the ableism on this site. Haha. Haha.

some surprising views expressed here especially the educational people

It’s the reality we’re living. No one is saying “accept being punched by children with SEN and move on”, we’re saying there is an increase in the need for SEN provision, a decrease in the provision itself and we are at a loss as to what to do. No, we can’t simply exclude the children because if they’re becoming violent, it’s a sign that their needs are not being met. Yet how do we meet those needs without the resources and funding to do so? It’s a mess.

Are you saying that violent behaviour can never be linked to disability? A child with a developmental delay may have the emotional age of a 2 year old. 2 year olds may sometimes display violent behaviour. Do we call the police when they do? A dementia sufferer who was previously a gentle person may display violent behaviour. Is this because of poor parenting? Your posts are equally offensive and ableist. Being a wheelchair user does not give you the right to speak for every other disabled person.

@Kingsransom Again, this is DARVO. You hate being called out on your ableism so you attack me instead. I know exactly what you're doing, it's blatantly obvious, and you should be embarrassed. This behaviour is coercive.

No, I am not "being ableist". A disabled woman saying something you don't like or disagree with is not being ableist.

Don’t be so ridiculous. Disability does not mean violence, but violent children often do have some sort of additional need that needs addressing. That does not mean that every child with additional needs is going to be violent, obviously.

No one is mocking anyone but I am not going to stand here what someone attempts to punch down on some of the most vulnerable children in the country because their need is apparently more valid.

Every single disabled person has the right to equity. Every. Single. One. And anyone who is deprived of that will be negatively impacted. How that will impact them varies but the fact remains all are equally deserving.

I am not spreading hate. You've entered a post where I've given insight into a POSSIBILITY for a DCs behaviour to tell me those disabled DC do not deserve the same accessibility that you as a physically disabled person do.

@StolenChanel Which is why I said "There may well be an unmet need, and I'm not disputing that". In some situations, that's true. But it's also not necessary or appropriate to draw a crass parallel to disabled people who use wheelchairs, who are not more likely to be violent. Associating disability with violence is ableist, even if you don't want to accept that and other posters don't want to accept that and MNHQ don't want to accept that. Sorry, but it is! Go and read some disability studies if you want to have an informed discussion on the subject. But bleating at me that it's fine to do something egregiously offensive isn't going to change my mind as, you know, an actual disabled person.

This is the thing - my husband worked in a seriously tough primary school in Seven Sisters. Zero tolerance for violence. And the kids there came from horrific backgrounds. But no violence in the school because the head was tough. It CAN be done.

@Kingsransom There is no "same accessibility". The very fact that you are framing it like that shows dire lack of understanding. If you look at my posts, I actually acknowledged that of course, unmet needs can be a component in childhood violence, I'm not even in disagreement there! But you absolutely are spreading hate when you link disability to violence. Maybe that's unintentional? I don't know. But if it is, I would think you'd say, " Oh gosh, sorry", when told that's what you're doing, rather than "oh no, you're the big bad ableist" to me, the actual disabled woman dealing with ableism every day.

That is INSANE 😭

@Ritzybitzy You absolutely did mock what I was saying. You've repeatedly linked disability and violence. And instead of apologising for that and claiming something more reasonable (eg that disability can be a component in the unmet needs that can cause this sort of horrible incident), you have doubled down and attacked me.

@Ritzybitzy I hope to God the teachers I meet next week do not have this attitude; that actually my 6 year old is the problem and we should move. What a travesty.

I would argue in this specific context, it’s OP’s daughter who is vulnerable. I find in these scenarios the perpetrator (for want of a better word, I know the capacity element is doubtful) is usually very advocated for and has numerous professionals to focus on what’s best for them and what they need even if the resources aren’t there to provide it. Their victims don’t really have that and in many cases are told to accept violence with a minimum of fuss to ‘be kind’, along with a suffering education as class resources are concentrated on a few children.

We need to remember these children will one day grow into adults and teaching young children (usually girls) that being attacked is acceptable if the perpetrator feels overwhelmed is very dangerous. I’m worried that’s the message we’re passing on at the moment.

What I said was 6 year olds engaging in violent behaviour almost certainly have SEN. And I absolutely stand by that.

I have not attacked you. I’ve stood by my position. And I’m still standing by it. You don’t like my position and have decided it’s a personal attack.

I had a similar meeting with the school a few weeks back, feel free to PM if you want to chat away from the heat of the thread. It was a long meeting and there are a few things I wish I had known in advance.

Some people don't seem to understand that anyone in a situation other than the most violent person can be vulnerable. In fact, physically disabled children are highly likely to be victimised by violent children, just as disabled adults are frequently attacked and victimised. So this specious association of disability and violence is all the more cruel. It smacks of the attitudes from decades, if not centuries, ago. (And yes, it absolutely is DARVO if your reaction to being called on this is to scream at me that I'm the one being ableist.)

Can you share anywhere on the thread that I have spread hate? You seem to have taken offense to me using a wheelchair as an example of an adjustment for a DC. It helps explain to people that do not understand adjustments why they are needed. I am allowed to explain that a consequence in an unmet need of a neurologically disabled DC may be violence, that is a fact. My role in the thread was to explain that when schools meet the DCs needs, the violence tends to stop. The schools that ignore it and push to exclude tend to be stuck in a cycle of violent incidents.

The thing is though she isn’t long term beyond being female because she clearly comes from an advantaged background.

It is quite easy to make it clear to a class behaviour is not acceptable and supporting children at the same time. We do this in schools all the time. No one here has said the behaviour should be ignored or nothing should happen. Not one person. What those of us who work in schools have said is that it’s not the parent of the victims business how it is being dealt with and the school needs to be allowed to manage it appropriately. Punitive measures that are all about punishing are not effective. Which is why schools are using approaches like therapeutic thinking, emotion coaching etc.

Thanks @Wildflowers99 I will defo message you!

@Ritzybitzy Associating disability and deeply harmful violence is ableist. If that's your position, then you are endorsing and promulgating a deeply ableist view. Obviously if that's the stand you want to take, I can't stop you, but it's on par with racism and sexism, so you'd do well to think it over some more. Disabled people are more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators.