Primary School punch - AIBU?

[MovingMad87]

DD is in Year 1 (6 years old). A few days ago, I got a call from her school saying she had been punched in the face by a boy in her class, leaving her with a bleeding nose. Awful.

The school explained that DD had been trying to stop this boy from grabbing her friend by the neck. She asked him to stop and told him he should apologise. In response, he punched her. The school suspended him for a day before half-term as a result.

This boy has a history of violent behaviour; scratching, kicking, and punching other children. The school is aware of the issue but as of now haven't really done anything about it.

A few weeks ago, I overheard DDs form tutor telling a parent that their child had a bad day. The teacher had bruises down her leg from being kicked by a different child. While that wasn't the same boy, it reinforced my growing concern that this level of violence is being normalised in the classroom. When I asked DD about it, she wasn't even particularly shocked; apparently, incidents like this happen all the time.

Now, I'm thinking I need to move my child to another school. Possibly private, but I'd rather explore good state school options first. I'll hear what the school has to say in the meeting, but for me, a punch in the face is a red line. A 6-year-old should not be dealing with this. Either the school removes this child, or we leave.

AIBU? Would you move your child?

Just to be clear: are you saying that a 6 year old who got punched in the face should have know how to behave against a violent child such that she didn’t get punched in the face?

Because it sounds like it’s fine to make excuses for a child who punches someone in the face, but the child who got punched in the face should know how not to get punched. At the age of six. Or perhaps you don’t think being punched in the face causes long term damage?

And you can choose - trust the school to sort it or move your child. What you don’t have the right to do is ring fence one child and demand answers.

Go in and ask to speak to them about general support for the whole school sure but that’s as far as you can go.

Not the school I work at but my child’s school. There is a boy much like the one you describe. Now in year 3 with 4 years of issues. My colleagues have been in and observed and of course my child is in that class. His behaviour has improved significantly. He is rarely involved in violent incidents these days but is still struggling massively. What’s really sad is the school is having to put in place class wide interventions because the other kids know he can have impulse control issues and use it to their advantage. They are also far more likely to report any tiny behaviour infractions yet ignore the same behaviour in their friends. Friend takes a pencil fine. Other kid takes a pencil “miss he stole my pencil”.

The point I’m trying to make is and it’s really sad that you cannot get is that kids need support. It needs to be established if it’s a need or purely behaviour. If the child can be supported to successfully access a mainstream school. Time for the parents to support. Before we toss the kid into a pile. Because the excluded 6 year old has no opportunity to move forward positively and the never ending cycle continues and gets worse.

And on top of all of this is the reality that you - the parent of another child - have no right to any information about another child. None. Anymore than a parent has the right to information about your child.

Yeah that’s what I said.

We would never advise a child to do this (while totally understanding if they instinctively do). It becomes law of the jungle then and you could have four or five 6yos jumping in saying their parents told them to hit back. It's a disaster.
A teenage student I know hit back but harder and he broke his bully's nose and was suspended.
There's no simple answer.

It's horrific that this has happened OP's daughter and of course she wants the child gone from her class/to leave the school herself. Excluding isn't dealing with it though as all children have a right to education- where do they go? V v often (in Ireland where I am anyway) there are additional needs and/or trauma. If it's additional needs it can take a long time to sort assessment and appropriate provision etc which is maddening as it's really an emergency situation. The idea that the school have done everything, well, I can't speak for that school but it does sound like they've failed in Safeguarding the safety of the others.

Of course private schools 'don't tolerate it', apart from any disciplinary approach, they simply won't get anything like the proportion of issues in a well off demographic. In Ireland we have designated disadvantaged schools, perhaps in the UK also, and this gives a smaller child:teacher ratio (1:20) plus grants and funding, extra support teachers etc. It doesn't sort it of course but at least there is some acknowledgement and provision for these schools and communities. Ime those with the lasting difficulties with outbursts and violence are those with chaotic/traumatic backgrounds.

And you can choose - trust the school to sort it or move your child. What you don’t have the right to do is ring fence one child and demand answers.
You write as if the ops has just decided to pick a random child and demand info.
The OP is focusing on this child because they are violently assaulting her child.
Is the attitude of your LA 'got an issue with your child being assaulted? Well sod off away from the school, how entitled are you!'

You don’t have the right to information about any child ever under any circumstances.

@shockeditellyou

**Just to be clear: are you saying that a 6 year old who got punched in the face should have know how to behave against a violent child such that she didn’t get punched in the face?

Because it sounds like it’s fine to make excuses for a child who punches someone in the face, but the child who got punched in the face should know how not to get punched. At the age of six. Or perhaps you don’t think being punched in the face causes long term damage?**

You've explained it perfectly and I am actually stunned that someone would take that position in this case. Genuinely stunned. Mouth aghast.

Being violent isn't inherently a disability, and it's grossly offensive to disabled people to make that comparison.

You’re shocked because you don’t work in a school setting. Those of us who work in educational facilities aren’t shocked I’m afraid. As opposed to standing there with your mouth open and trying to get a witch hunt organised online, you could do the things that we’ve advised you to do.

Honestly, poor OP is being lectured for not being considerate enough of the child who violently assaulted her six year old! I hope the people talking like this don't really work in education, because that is terrifying.

The issue here is that in the case of a 6 year old behaviour like this is nearly always related to need. What that need is may or may not be related to a disability but at 6 knowing right from wrong and having the emotional regulation to control behaviour is a work in progress and for kids with underlying needs something that often comes later.

Disregulation at school is often a symptom of a disability. That is why we have seen an increase in violence at schools when budgets cuts have been made to services that identify and support disabled children. It isn't offensive to point that out. I have DC with both invisible and very visible disabilities myself.

It would be far more terrifying if those of who worked in education were screaming exclude them all. Or better yet stick them in the stocks! And make sure you make it a public affair, announce it to the WhatsApp group.

@Ritzybitzy There may well be an unmet need, and I'm not disputing that. But speaking as a disabled woman who uses a wheelchair, seeing people repeatedly compare a child who made OP's daughter bleed (and similar children who have eg strangled classmates) to disabled people like me (wheelchair users) as if there is a direct parallel is still really offensive. I'm not sure why you don't understand that.

@Kingsransom It is offensive to imply that very harmful violence is inherently linked to disability, actually. The term is ableism.

I haven't suggested that. I've said that dysregulated children often display violence. That is why when support is put in place and their needs are met the violence stops. In my opinion, you are displaying ableism on this thread. Just because you cannot see a disability, does not mean that it does not exist.

I am quite shocked! However, most people in the thread have expressed sympathy and given good advice to be fair. To be honest I'm glad to have seen some of these 'shocking' responses because it explains quite a lot of the problems we have in education. In addition I need to know what I'm up against when I go into the meeting; if the attitude is like that then of course we will have to move.

We’ve had similar OP with my year 1 child being attacked, meetings with the head etc where they said there’s basically nothing they can do bar their (very weak and ineffectual) ‘consequences’ (not allowed to say punishment apparently…)

I’m so worried for what society will look like when this lot are adults

Sending solidarity

There is a direct parallel.

disabled person who needs adjustments to access school.

Meet the needs they thrive. Don’t meet the needs and they do not. The difference is your difficulties would be socially acceptable because the only person affected is you. And that can be at worst conveniently ignored or at best “felt for”. The child with cognitive needs (whatever they may be) has their needs unmet and bothers others in a way that isn’t socially acceptable and they’re demonised. You’re doing it now. You’re offended because I’ve compared the needs of a child that can lead to violent behaviour. Why? Because your offence is symptomatic of the issue.

I see it daily. In school and with my own child. He is mobility impaired which impacts his ability to play football. He’s in a team and they make allowances and everyone supports him. Another child has behavioural needs due to fetal alcohol syndrome and everyone judges this kid. Wants him out the team. No suggestion that he should get allowances or support.

There is no hierarchy of needs - disabled is disabled. Needs are needs. Everyone has the right to support. Particularly a 6 year old at risk of exclusion.

And then everyone wonders how these kids grow up to be violent adults :/ while they face no consequences. Horrible to have to be on edge all day because you're forced to share space with violent peers. If you can take her out of that type of environment then do, I think.

Just curious. If you sit in that meeting and they tell you the child’s entire history. All the support they’re trying to access. Everything. What difference does that make? Do you feel you have power if you know someone’s sad history? If you know he’s actually just a shitty kid with shitty parents? Or that he’s got underlying needs that they’re working to support him with? What is the actual direct impact of you knowing a vulnerable child’s story?

Not my job to talk to someone who’s been violent towards my child.

Always the victim and the victim’s family who are expected to show compassion, dignity, understanding, eh?

@EvangelicalAboutButteredToast What witch hunt? This is all anonymous. No one knows the school or the name of the child involved? So again, what is the witch-hunt? Also, as you work on eduction, is this really the attitude you would have to a 6 year old being punched in the face at school? Really?

Just so you know the evidence is very strong that behavioural needs do not improve with punitive measures. It’s that approach that breeds criminality. A restorative approach improves outcomes. The issue we have at present is that we don’t have access to sufficient support and funding to improve outcomes so schools are stuck between professionals wanting to help all children without sufficient resources. If you want to shout shout at those cutting funding. Not the teachers about a vulnerable 6 year old. Because let’s be real, in 20 years the 6 year old with this parent will be fine. The kid who threw the punch, well he’s not going to be is he. Because there’s no one fighting for him.

Thankyou! What are you planning to do?